Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: George Des on February 23, 2018, 15:11:18
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I am trying to post the CAD drawing I used to produce the bellows seal tab washer. This site will not allow me to upload the .ems file. I can send this to someone via email who would know better than I would how to best upload to the tech manual or Forum. You do need to download a copy of emachineshop.com software to read it. The software download is free by going to the emachineshop.com website.
George Desiderio
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Hi George,
You can zip the file up and then upload it. The website does take ".zip" files.
If you don't know how to do it I will be happy to do it for you. I will send you a pm of my email.
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Yes send me your email and i'll get it to you that way
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Here ya go. That was easy. I didn't even get out of bed😜😜👍
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If you want to have these made through emachineshop, you will need to download their software and specify the thickness, material and manufacturing process. For best product I would use the EDM process as noted. This results in best finish and edges. You can specify the type steel as well. Would not use SS since that tab will come flat and need to be bent to fit the armature slot when you fit it. Quantity orders are the best way to order these as the price per piece goes way down when you do so. Somewhere I also have the correct ordering info for the brushes. These come from Advance Carbon Products and unlike, many of the counterfeit brushes out there, these are basically the same as the original Bosch brushes as far as material metal/carbon content, size, shape and shunt location and gauge.
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Guys,
Thanks for your efforts. Much appreciated.
Regards
Peter
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It would be helpful to post a jpeg of what the part actually looks like so people do not need to download software to see what you are trying to accomplish. On the other hand, knowing there is a process by which one-off parts can be made can be very useful. I will check out the emachineshop.com site just to see what they have to offer.
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I was able to view the file on my iPhone. See pic below. The app was the free lite version. It would not allow me do anything with it.
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If you download the ems software and use the .ems file I sent to yoi you should be able to load into the software and not only get all the dimensions but you should be able to make changes and order them to your own specs
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Yes, I was just posting the picture as Doitwright suggested. :)
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Thanks for posting the photo. Be sure to post a picture of the actual part after you get it from emachineshop.
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Guys,
The shop that George used is all set up to do this. We need to find a volunteer from Florida willing to organise it. Someone who also needs a few washers.
I would take 10.
Who else needs them so we can get something set up?
Regards
Peter
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What is the minimum quantity the shop requires? What would the cost per unit be?
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Quoting George from another post
"Hey guys I posted my drawings for the tab washer today. The drawing is correctly dimensioned and I'm sure EMS has it on file somewhere as well. My drawing is up in General Discussion section. Emachineshop.com made them for me several years ago and they lasted me quite a long time. I had these made using the EDM process and they were difficult to tell apart from the originals. I do not have any of those left but I did have a second batch made that did not turn out so well but do work. They were made using a water jet process and the cut is just not as clean as my original batch. Only a few of these left somewhere in the garage. My first batch back in 2007 cost me about $175.00 US for about 120 of these. The second batch cost about the same but was ordered several years after the first. Not sure what they would charge today but the price per piece goes way down the more you order. The key price determinants are the process, material, tolerances and finish which are all electable."
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I bought an overhaul kit from Authentic Classics.
You think they would be keen to add a washer to the kit. Clearly the integrity of this washer is an issue. Just about all the posts I have read on early fuel pumps suggest they are easy to break or already found broken.
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I would like to suggest that you expand the description of the part you are looking to have fabricated so that others who may be in need of this can find it more easily. For example, your subject "Tab Washer for Large Fuel Pump" I think most people refer to the "large" as "early". I have a later car so I would not identify a need for this part but when I first read the post on this subject, I was wondering what you were talking about. Describe where it goes and if it commonly fails, show a picture of a broken piece.
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I would gladly volunteer but I'm here in California. I would gladly contribute to the cause by purchasing as many as needed to have the batch made. If the shop would work with me over the phone or email I would volunteer to have it done.
Mauricio
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Emachineshop will make these up based on the drawing I submitted years ago. It has all the dimensions except the thickness. I’m sure the shop will deal either by email or phone in producing these.
George
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;)
I will inquire if everyone is in agreement. George, do you remember the thickness? How would they locate the info internally? Would I give them your name?
Mauricio
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I have one off these washers left and can give you the thickness later.
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It's nice to see small projects like this come together by using the knowledge and resources of the club members. Owing to the size and diversity of our membership, I bet a lot of things could be accomplished by joint efforts like this one.
I would suggest that we give some thought towards producing small items that are often needed but not available. Just a thought....
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;)
I will inquire if everyone is in agreement. George, do you remember the thickness? How would they locate the info internally? Would I give them your name?
Mauricio
The washer measures 0.4mm in thickness.
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Thank you all for the support and knowledge. I have contacted emachineshop and provided some info and waiting for their response. Will keep everyone posted.
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Thank you Mauricio !!
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I would be interested in a few. Currently offshore but could Paypal funds if need be.
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I can not remember the exact dimension I gave them for the thickness but that should not be too diificult to get from an old one. Just make sure yoi specify that you want these done by using th electostatic discharge method. It will produce a much better cut. Ok to use my name. I know they have it on file since I corresponded with them several times during the two runs I had them produce for me. I also found the order sheets for the two different types of motor brushes I had Advanced Carbon Products make up for the pumps. These are exact duplicates of the Bosch produced brushes. I’ll post later.
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George,
They can't seen to find it in their system. They need the order number from your previous order. Do you think you have it?
I gave them your name and the date along with the file name but they cannot find it. If you like you could send me the email you used to correspond with them and perhaps they could find it that way.
Thank you
Mauricio
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I will try to find the correspondence I had with them.
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I did find the original invoice and I will send it to you. Send me your direct email in a msg and I’ll get it to you.
George
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I'm in for a few also when you are ready. 👍
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Thank you George. PM sent.
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Just a quick update... They found the previous order and they gave me a quote but waiting for verification that they will be using the electrostatic discharge method that George recommends as the quote does not mention the manufacturing process.
Mauricio
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Maurizio,
Thanks for keep moving this forward.
If we want to go the whole way I note that varying thickness shims are shown on the parts list. Does anyone know which dimension is checked to gauge if they are required?
Regards
Peter
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I have a quote for 100 washers at $287.00
Using the edm process.
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I will take 10 Mauricio.
I don't actually need ten so if enough other people want them then I can cut this figure down so everybody who wants one gets one.
If it goes the other way and their are not many takers, I could take 20.
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I will go ahead and put the order in. I will let everyone know when the shipment arrives.
Mauricio
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I will take 5 Mauricio.
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Any tabs not spoken for?
James
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I'm in for 3👍
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Mauricio,
I am located in Europe but one of my colleagues lives in Miami so that's where mine can be posted.
If emachineshop can post mine direct to Miami it will save you the trouble. Let me know how I can pay you too. I can do paypal or bank transfer.
Thanks
Peter
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There are a couple of vendors(members of this forum) that sell rebuild kits that don't include these washers.. I would think they would want to step up and buy a large lot to add to their kits.
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Yeah, I agree regarding the vendors. Those rebuild kits are only marginally useful if you are doing a pump rebuild and happen to have a broken tab washer. When I was assembling these kits, I always included a least one of the original tab washers EMachineshop made up for me sometimes two or three. I am shocked current kit vendors did not figure this out sooner. Just about every long style pump I rebuilt, and it is a lot of them, had a broken tab washer. You simply can not get a good, non leaking rebuild on this pump with a broken tab washer. It is definitely a single point of failure on this pump. Hopefully, this new batch you are ordering will turn out as good as the originals. This is a great service to the members who still use the long style pumps. Now some enterprising member needs to figure out a way to reverse engineer that pesky bellows seal. That was a little beyond my CAD skills and would probably require a trip to eMachineshop to consult directly with them on how to manufacture them. I'm sure they can do it!
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Somewhere I also have my eMachineshop CAD drawing for the small woodruff key. Those are a lot less involved to have made up and so less costly, but the dimensions are critical in order that it fits right. I'll post that when I find it if members would like to order those too.
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Authentic Classics has agreed to purchase the remaing washers. I will PM all interested members when I receive the washers.
Mauricio
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I noticed I said “a few” when I put my hat in the ring. I’ll take 5 if that is possible.
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Peter,
I apologize for not responding earlier.
You're very welcome, its my pleasure and I admit I need one badly as well. This is keeping me from using the original pump despite having an aftermarket replacement pump on hand.
Since you are in Europe, I would gladly ship them to Miami for you.
Regards,
Mauricio
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I would also like 5 if they are still available.
James (Eddie) Black
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Did emachineshop ever deliver on these? I recall it took some time on my original orders. Curious as to how well they turn out. The EDM process will result in a much better product.
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I am wondering if it would be worth it to have impellers for the newer shorter electric fuel pump made. Does anyone besides me have an interest in it?
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I am sure they could do it. You would need to have some skills doing the CAD drawing for this or perhaps emachineshop could have one of their staff take an example and do it for you. Be curious as to what they would charge for this as the impleller is a little more complex than a tab washer. Remember, the more you order, the lower the unit cost.
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I was thinking a friend has a CNC water jet and that would be perfect I’d think. I’ll talk with him sometime.
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I believe the impeller fins are tapered. That might be a bit of a challenge for the water jet.
If a 3-d cad model is required, I can create that for whoever wants to take on the task of manufacturing.
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My friend’s jet will do angles. Let me get in touch with him and show him the impeller. I’ll be home in a week or so.
Thank you,
Kevin
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Mauricio,
My work colleague successfully delivered the washers to me smack in the middle of the Sahara desert. There's globalisation for you !
Thanks again for organising.
Peter
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How dod the washers come out? EMachineshop does a very good job at a reasonable price that other shops probably would not take on. I had a little apprehension on the first round of tab washers I had them make. Kept second guessing myself as to how well the cad drawing was that I did for it. Went so far as to do a to scale print out on my printer of the cad drawing image to ensure the dimension were at least in the ballpark. They turned out pretty much perfect the first time around.
George
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They look excellent. I have a long pump stripped down and will take a photo of the washer sitting on the brass mechanical seal when I get back home.
Some impellers would be a real achievement if somebody takes that on.
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The impellers for the large pump probably would be easier to CAD and make but fortunately these are pretty plentiful since so many large style pumps are ruined and simply discarded. The vanes for the smaller pumps are another story.
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The Tab washers seemed to have turned out great. Thank you George for providing the information. The remaining washers were purchased by Authentic Classics and are available on their website.
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Glad I could help with this. As I said before I figured out early on that this part was critical to the operation of the pump and without it, any attempted repair of the pump with a broken tab washer was fruitless. EMachineshop provided an excellent venue for producing these as pretty much no other machine shop would take on such a low level job. Perhaps someone can take on CADing the bellows seal. A much more complex part to design and produce but another part that is critical to the operation of the pump. I keep thinking that somewhere in the world, perhaps in some back room or cave, there are boxes of these things disposed of by Bosch and no one knows what they are or what they go to!