Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Shvegel on February 18, 2018, 20:56:44
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After an expensive car week I still need new tires as I threw the old ones away. I was about to buy a set of Michelin MXV-P’s but still haven’t quite decided if I am using the wheel covers with whitewalls or blackwalls and Bundt wheels and blackwalls so I just decided to see what I could find to keep it off the ground for the next year while it goes together and I found these 185/80 R14 tires on eBay for $216 for a set of 4. I bought them and will post a review when I get them although I will not drive on them for a year or more.
I figured the correct size tire at a budget price is worth mentioning.
https://m.ebay.com/itm/-2-New-185-80R14-Achilles-122-1858014-185-80-14-R14-Tires/132483832193
Before I get blasted I will say that I do not think a tire is a tire. The Michelins are undoubtedly a better tire and I have Pilot Sports on my daily driver BMW. I just figure at this point they will keep the car off the ground and just might work just fine for what is essentially a GT car.
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There are lots of threads on the site in regards to tires.
If you want a good tire, reasonable price take a look at the Hankook H724 P195/75R14 which come with the white walls. In Canada they are CA$84/each If I recall I think they can be sourced for about 65 in the US.
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Thanks Mike. I will check those out.
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I have Kumho Solus Tires on my 69 280SE Convertible and 67 Corvette.
Very happy good low price and drive well.
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There are lots of threads on the site in regards to tires.
If you want a good tire, reasonable price take a look at the Hankook H724 P195/75R14 which come with the white walls. In Canada they are CA$84/each If I recall I think they can be sourced for about 65 in the US.
Wot he says ^^^
Got a set of 4 for my car last year, $200 ish delivered. They're fantastic value and the grip is excellent. If you're not a fan of the white wall you can mount the whitewall inside. Very pleased indeed with these. Vast improvement over what I removed.
Amazon have an offer that's pretty hard to beat: Hankook H724 P195/75R14 https://www.amazon.com/Hankook-Optimo-H724-All-Season-Tire/dp/B004QL6AS0
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Hi James,
I was interested in the Hankook whitewalls as well, especially with the Amazon price, lots of good reviews on the forum threads here about them. Can you tell me what the width of the white wall is? On the picture, the white wall looks a little narrower that what I have on my car now.
Thanks,
Alex
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I just went out to the garage and measured for you. It was cold😆
Whitewall width is 16mm for the hankooks.
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For reference, the white wall stripe on my original Firestone Phoenix spare is 17mm.
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I put the Hankook's on my 280SL a couple of months back. They look great and have a very nice ride. Perfect for Pagodas at a price that's basically 1/4 the cost of the Phoenix tires.
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Just put the Hankook white walls on my car from Amazon. So far I'm very happy with them, to me they ride handle very nice. This is my fourth set of tires in 6 monthes. First the Toyo's had cracks in the white walls, returned them for refund, minus the mounting and balancing. Then I got Uniroyal Tiger Paws, the white wall were terrible, more yellow/beige then white, returned them minus mounting and balancing, got another set of of Uniroyals, better than the first set, but still not able to get the white walls to my liking returned them minus mounting and balancing. The Hankooks have the best price, nice ride & handiling, and best white walls, IMO.
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why do you mount and balance them if you don't like the color of the whitewalls?
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The problem was that the tire shop did not completely remove the blue protective coating, only partially removed the coating. Noticed the defects only after I got home and really scrubbed the blue coating completely off.
Lesson Learned - If your getting white walls make sure the tire shop completely cleans the blue coating off the tire before mounting and balancing.
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or, ask for a tire before mounting and do it yourself first explaining why.
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I think some of the whitewall staining problems may be due to time in storage, I bought 12 American Classic whitewall tires for 3 cars around a year ago from a UK supplier, I had them shipped directly to my tire fitters and they fitted them, 10 of them had brown stains on the whitewalls, the supplier said it was down to the installer and I know it wasn't. I figured the tires had been stacked in storage over here for some time, I had to suck it up which left a pretty bad taste in my mouth.
I only buy whitewalls from the USA now as I think there is a more frequent stock turnaround, trouble is you really ned to leave the blue on until the car is finished so the whitewalls don't get marked, you can usually see if there is any staining or marking through the blue but you need to look pretty close. The fact of the matter is that a tire fitter is seldom going to look as closely at a whitewall as the owner will, they just fit the tire.
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I purchased my 1971 280 SL about a year and a half ago with the express intent of using it as my "comfortable" vintage rally car. I bought the car in Colorado and planned on driving the car back from Colorado to Oklahoma (700 miles). The tires that were on the car were over five years old so I told the owner to go ahead and put a new set of tires because I didn't want to drive that distance at highway speeds with old tires on it. He put a set of white wall Hancook and the total cost was only $213. I drove the car home and the ride was just fine on the highway. I did notice that when turning quickly that a certain amount of squeal was constantly present with these tires. Since purchasing the car I put the stiffer springs on the car to reduce nose dive and improve the handling.
I plan on taking this car on the Hagerty Silver Summit which is a 700 mile driving tour around the scenic back roads of Colorado. I have been on this rally several times in the past and the roads are fantastic although they can be quite twisty and exhilarating to drive. I typically take an early 911 on these rallies. The 911 handles extremely well but does not ride near as comfortable as the 280SL, thus the wife wanted as comfortable a ride as possible. In an effort to improve the ride and handling for this upcoming rally I put a set of 6" aluminum wheels (off of a 1981 300D I believe) on the car (significant reduction in weight over the stock steel wheels). Although I liked the look of the whitewall tire, I could not find a performance tire in a white wall so I settled for a blackwall tire. I purchased a set of 185HR-14 Vredestein Sprint Classic from Tire Rack at a cost of $738 ($638 plus $100 for mounting and balancing) and the difference in handling is amazing. I am not sure what made the bigger difference (light wheels or performance tires), but if you plan on driving your car on roads that are twisty and you like to drive the car at speed, I would recommend these performance tires.
Admittedly there is a considerable difference in cost between these tires, however I have always been a believer that tires are one of the most important parts on you vehicle because they are all that stand between you and the road. While the Hancook tires are not a bad tire, they just did not have the grip that I was looking for. After all this car is a sports car!! While the handling still is not in line with the 911, the wheel, tire and spring changes certainly improved the handling characteristics of this car!
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.. I found these 185/80 R14 tires on eBay for $216 for a set of 4. I bought them and will post a review when I get them although I will not drive on them for a year or more.
I figured the correct size tire at a budget price is worth mentioning.
https://m.ebay.com/itm/-2-New-185-80R14-Achilles-122-1858014-185-80-14-R14-Tires/132483832193
Shvegel,
what do they look like and could they be balanced?
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Alfred,
Unfortunately, they have the modern shaded rubber lettering but I don’t really notice it from 4 feet away. Balance wasn’t an issue.
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I'm just reading this post, hence the late reply. I too purchased the Hankooks with the whitewalls. I drove my 113 in the Targa California rally last year. The tires left a lot to be desired. The tires squealed like a stuck pig during any attempt at spirited driving. The chassis, overall, was up to the task, but the tires just couldn't bring it. The engine performed well enough to keep up with the 911s on most of the roads, but the tires were my downfall. I really like the look of the pagoda with the whitewalls, but may have to make this compromise for performance sake.
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It is said that Rudolf Uhlenhaut who was a genius designer and race manager was the one who went back to Firestone and asked them to change the tires to a sort of strange radial/bias ply hybrid which became the Firestone Phoenix. Unfortunately, the "Sort of bias ply radial" couldn't live through the forces that were put upon it and the plies separated due to the shear forces put upon them. It is pretty clear in my mind that any true radial is going to be a little floppy or compliant given the height of the sidewall of our tires. I have no knowldge but judging by my past history with Michelin I would assume they have done the best job of making the sidewalls stiff enough to work with our cars. If I had to use a stock size tire in a race that would be my first choice otherwise a smaller sidewall Hoosier brand Autocross tire would be my choice.
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I just put the Coker Phoenix 185/14 on my 1970 last week. I am under the impression that it is a 70 series aspect ratio. I would be led to believe that the 75 series cheap tire would be a balloon in comparison at 195/75.
That may be the contributing factor to the squeal & obligatory sidewall flex that I am reading about here.
I am sticking with the $260 per tire Phoenix.
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I just put the Coker Phoenix 185/14 on my 1970 last week. I am under the impression that it is a 70 series aspect ratio.
The Coker Phoenix is -80 series aspect ratio, and I believe it is H speed rated though I had to ask about that some years back.
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Good timing on this thread as I am about to take a tire with a screw in it to my tire guy. Besides that, I have been contemplating new reasonably priced tires and was going to get his opinion today... My current tires are Michelins X-Ones (which they don't make anymore) -- they have been solid for wear and handling. 12 years old though --- but only probably 20-25K miles.
So my questions: on the Hankook's are we in agreement that a good style & size is: Hankook Optimo H724 All-Season Tire - 195/75R14 92S ??
And for kicks, how many of you think I should go whitewall for the first time in 38 years of ownership?
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I would definitely go with the white walls. My car has a white body with the marine blue top. The white walls are a nice complement and I love the look.
Regards,
Rich
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Eighty series?!
Talk about a balloon! Egad. I better check the measurements myself to confirm. Eighty?! Thats for station-wagons. ;)
Oh & put my vote in for the whitewall look too. 8)
Edit... Mike is right! I read some Coker details & made a few quick measurements and found that it is alllllmost a station wagon tire. But it certainly looks correct with the profile of the car. The sidewall is bound to be the magic. As these tires (my second set) are strong performing with no complaints in the corners.
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Update on tire shopping. My local tire place took a gander at my Michelins -- and while the wear was excellent -- he said he thought the time was about right to replace. Some cracking between the treads. I said, "ya I bought em here several years back..." He checked into it -- 2002! So, he ordered me the Hankooks. Going on tomorrow. About 60 a piece.
Thanks for the votes so far: Polls close at 930 AM tomorrow (5/25/18)!! Whitewalls Y or N?
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Hankook whitewalls👍👍👍👍👍
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N
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Go for the 3/4 Wide whites James! ;)
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Just for clarity I wanted to state that the current “Coker” Phoenix tires are not belted like the original Firestone tires were. They are a conventional radial tire so in terms of construction there is no special advantage to them.
I am curious if any of us with loose feeling or squealing tires have tried raising the tire pressures up a bit to say 36 psi or so?
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I too went with the Hankooks about 2 weeks ago. I don't do rally's or auto crosses so I can't comment on them as a performance tire. . I have 75 miles on them so far and they feel great. I went with whitewalls and like the look as well. I paid $420 out the door for 5 tires, mounted and balanced.
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Just for clarity I wanted to state that the current “Coker” Phoenix tires are not belted like the original Firestone tires were. They are a conventional radial tire so in terms of construction there is no special advantage to them. I am curious if any of us with loose feeling or squealing tires have tried raising the tire pressures up a bit to say 36 psi or so?
Not quite, Patrick. It's all about sidewall stiffness.
I originally had Pirelli, "cheap tires" on my car and I did not like the handling; made me feel disconnected from the car. When I took the newly acquired reproduction Cokers to my service place, they indeed observed that the sidewalls were significantly stiffer than the Pirellis, with the latter being a totally conventional tire. I believe it is the sidewall stiffness (a metric not generally measured) that led to my satisfaction with them. But yes, they are a true 100% radial, not a half-radial.
I now have old Cokers, and they'll have to be replaced...but during their lifetime they've been great for me. Expensive, yes. But great too. I have not experienced squealing so can't speak to the higher pressures solving a problem.
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I am close to needing replacement tires and considering the Hankook 724 WSW. Can anyone here that has had the tires for more than a year comment on how well the white stripe is holding up? Any noticeable yellowing? I know that over time on many of today's wsw there can be "bleed through" from the tire that affects the wsw. Currently I have Diamond Back wsw where the company added the wsw to the tire with a sealer on the back side. The white stripe has held up very well over the past 8 years but I don't particularly care for the brand of tire that they put the wsw on. I have found a company in California called Calli Tire that will add a white stripe to a Hankook tire that is the blackwall version of the 724 but with shipping, mounting etc. it about triples the cost of just purchasing the 724 from Discount Tire.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thank you in advance :)
Norm
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Two years going and my Hankooks are still white👍
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As I mentioned in other posts, I put Yokohama "light truck" tires on my car (all black - no white walls) with a stiff sidewall and found a noticeable difference from the BFG Radial T/As and Pirelli P77s I had on there that tended to wallow in the (hard) corners.
With the weight that our cars have, I feel more secure with the stiff sidewalls when I hit the high speed twisties but I'm sure most drivers wouldn't drive their pagoda as hard as I do. On my MGB I was happy with a softer sidewall but then again the MGB has 700 lbs less weight to throw around.
Ian (working on reducing the weight in both cars)
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Interesting post from Woodstock. He and I are of a like mind. I participated in the Maple Mille last year up here in Ontario. It’s run by the same organizers as the Silver Summit. The Pagoda is the perfect sporty vintage tourer for a long event like those.
I also just purchased 5 of the aluminum 6x14 ‘steelies’ from Scoot. Just having them stripped and powder coated right now. I have the Uniroyals on the original steelies now, but will be mounting Michelin MXV-P whitewalls on the refurbished aluminum wheels. I had to import the Michelin’s from Germany as I was unable to find them in whitewall in North America.
Looking forward to spring driving season on my new wheels and tires. I expect a significant improvement in ride and handling.
I’ll post some photos once I get them back from the wheel shop.
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I just ordered 4 Hankook H724 P195/75R14 white walls from my local tire store. The old Michelin's I put on in 1982 are finally splitting. :'( I've actually had 2 people over the years try to buy these tires right off the car at shows.
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I hope you never drove with those old tyres. Tyres any oleander than 10 years are considered unroadworthy and dangerous. Some say even less time before changing them.