Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: merrill on February 09, 2018, 15:49:53
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hi
so as part of my interior restoration in the next few months i need to make a decision on what do to with the interior wood.
the wood in my car is original and will need to be stripped and restored. there are areas where they veneer is missing and the base wood is gone.
madera concepts in CA estimated 1K to repair the wood.
I have found complete sets at various resellers staring at $500 and up.
honestly i am leaning toward the $500 set vs 1K to restore the original.
thoughts?
Matt
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The veneer on the original trim is very thin and the plywood below is prone to delaminating. I will be giving my trim to a local furniture restorer to provide a quote. I could probably do it myself but I would rather work on other things.
Most of the replacements I have seen look nice but I have not seen a set with matching grain and color and they do not include the wood around the rear window on the hardtop.
If you can find a set that looks correct, I would spend the $500 difference on something else.
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I just relaminated my dash bows. They came out great👍 $15 for the veneer. $15 for high strength contact cement.
The process is straight forward but takes patience to do it correctly and have it look nice.
PM for more details.
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Mrfatboy,
Did you use a Walnut or cherry veneer? Did you top coat the wood? What did you use? How many coats?
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I used a Sapele wood veneer based on a recommendation from 66andblue. He used same from same store. The grain pattern and color matched more than the walnut or cherry veneers.
The entire wood bow and veneer was covered with contact cement first then applied to top of bow.
Trimming the veneer was tricky around all of the compound curves. But I found that if I trimmed and stuck the veneer on about 1/4" at a time the veneer would "give" more and wrap around the curves. Wetting the localized area with water wet finger helped in bending veneer.
I then used minwax "special walnut" to stain to match my original wood.
7 coats of minwax spar urethane satin. The final finish was smooth but not glass smooth. You could just barely feel the grain.
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As mrfatboy typed, Sapele wood can be stained and varnished quite well to match and the paper-backed veneer is flexible enough to wrap around the curves. I have done two thus far ... second turned out better than the first. :)
There are different ways to cut veneer and match the strips together (https://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/library/reference-guides/grading-guide/veneer-cuts-and-matching/). You need to find one with long running grain patterns.
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I used a Sapele wood veneer based on a recommendation from 66andblue. He used same from same store. The grain pattern and color matched more than the walnut or cherry veneers.
The entire wood bow and veneer was covered with contact cement first then applied to top of bow.
Trimming the veneer was tricky around all of the compound curves. But I found that if I trimmed and stuck the veneer on about 1/4" at a time the veneer would "give" more and wrap around the curves. Wetting the localized area with water wet finger helped in bending veneer.
I then used minwax "special walnut" to stain to match my original wood.
7 coats of minwax spar urethane satin. The final finish was smooth but not glass smooth. You could just barely feel the grain.
Did you take any pictures as you were doing the veneer work? How about pictures of the finished job? Did you have any issues with the veneer wanting to crack when glueing to the curved areas?
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I took some pics but I wish I took more. I will try to dig them up. :-[ I was concentrating on the job itself :) I was very nervous attempting it.
Since this was the first time I have done anything like this I had to create my own technique on the fly.
My dash bows were completely stripped of the first layer of veneer and coated with what looked like a spar varnish. I assume this was the PO's attempt to fix already deteriorating wood and sand through over 25 years ago. I don't think that it is necessary to strip the first layer buy rather make sure that everything is smoothed out of any dents or defects so it won't show through the veneer.
Here are the steps I took.
- Laid out dash bows on veneer keeping in mine the grain patterns. You want try to make the patterns match on both bows
- Traced OVER SIZED out line of the bow and cut out. I used about a 3" over sized outline. For some reason it came in handy :)
- Roughed up existing bow finish
- Do one dash bow at a time for the following steps
- Applied High Heat good quality contact cement to both bow and veneer. Wait per contact cement instructions
- Applied the veneer to top of bow. I did not role any curves or edges at this time. I only wanted the veneer to adhere to the top. Made sure the veneer is evenly placed on bow so no air pockets appear. Take special care to the top of the outside curves as not to "bridge" the raised profile. You want the veneer to follow all of the top contours.
- Then trimmed down as much as I could MAKING sure that I left enough to wrap the edges
- The back side of the dash bows are easily trimmed so I did that first using a very sharp carpenters knife. Change blades often.
CRITICAL PART
I found that to not have the veneer crack or at least greatly minimize it I used a wet finger and applied water to about an inch at time of the area being worked on(the bend). I then rolled over the veneer about 1/8" - 1/4" at a time (just enough that it does not crack) making the contact cement stick. Immediately trim what you just did. Roll, stick, trim, roll, stick, trim. Repeat. TAKE YOUR TIME!!!! The smaller movements you make will have better result. :)
Trimming as you go is CRITICAL as it relieves the stress on the veneer. If you do not do it you surely will have cracks.
I tried using a steamer to soften the veneer but that didn't work. Applying a little bit of water in the work area worked best for me.
I think I was about 99% crack free and was even able to use 1000 grit sand paper and fix any that appeared. I was extremely impressed how they came out. If I knew I could have done it 20 years ago I would have :)
- I then wrapped both bows tight with blue painters tape and left over night just to make sure everything stuck. I'm not sure if necessary, but it was insurance for me. :)
- Finish with stain of choice
- Apply 7+ coats Minwax spar urethane satin
From what I have read our options are:
1. DIY for ~$50 (veneer, stain, urethane, contact cement)
2. Buy aftermarket for $600
3. Professionally refinished for $1200
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Excellent step by step write-up. The tip about trimming as you go should be very valuable.
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Just to add one other important aspect to mrfatboy's excellent write up. Do not use lumpy spray contact cement!
IMO, gel contact cement works best when using thin paper-backed veneer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeFzAPik_68
This website has lots of good information and many useful tips on woodworking and veneering:
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/backed-veneer.htm
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I used this product
http://www.dap.com/dap-products-ph/weldwood-gel-formula-contact-cement/
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mrfatboy
what would you use to repair the wood substrate?
I have one end that the veneer is missing and some of the base wood is chipped.
Thank you - Matt
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matt,
Can you post a picture? I would think there are many products/ways to fix the substrate but a picture is worth a thousand words :) Plus I bet there are better wood workers here on the forum that might have better solutions than what I might suggest. The more eyes the better :)
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Excellent write up Mrfatboy. Will come in handy when I get to mine. Perhaps I can salvage mine which I think are unsalvagable due to missing stud and broken tip on the bows.
Mauricio
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mrfatboy
hi
photo attached, this is really the only area of concern
it is the drivers side bow, end that butts up against the windshield gasket (left side)
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I would think that would be easily repairable. I have not tried this product but it looks like it would do the trick. I'm sure they sell it or similar at Home Depot, etc.
Just mold it around broken section. Try to get as close to the shape you want and sand the rest. The new veneer should cover it nicely.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NJDAJY/ref=asc_df_B002NJDAJY5452242/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B002NJDAJY&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198106262049&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13392995104234875964&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031350&hvtargid=pla-348858713460
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The JB Weld works great. Before you apply that though there is a watery substance you can paint on the wood and it hardens it - I don't know what it is called but a lumber yard should have it (there are a few different names) - I'm using it to rescue a couple rotted out window sills in a beach cottage I am resurrecting right now. After you let that stuff harden the wood make sure its glued together so there is no flexing of different layers of material when you apply the JB weld.
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hello
so I have picked up my supplies for this project (veneer, contact cement, stain) and have started removing the veneer from the wood set.
2 questoins
1. most of the old veneer is easily removed. any tips on removing the old veneer that is still well adhered to the wood?
2. what is the best way to approach the speaker cover? i am not sure if it can be dis assembled or if i just need to work with it very carefully.
thanks again
matt
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In my situation the PO had already removed the top layer veneer. I don't know how he did it. Gently sanding? Heat gun?
My speaker grille was in good shape so I didn't have to veneer. I just chemically stripped the old varnish and stained and clear coated to match.
I have seen people remove the speaker grille pieces and veneer just the base but I have no experience with that. I would advise caution though. Very delicate.
Posting more pictures might help.
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hi
speaker grille photo attached
all 4 pcs of my wood needs to be refurbished. most of the veneer peels off easily. some does not.
sending this stuff out is looking more attractive
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As you said, it looks like you will need to gently wiggle each slat out of the grill. Some how the glue must be softened. Once done, chemically stripped each slat and stained.
Once the slats are removed from the base the old veneer should be relatively easy to removed.
It will be labor intensive but doable. I have seen it done. I guess you just have to determine how much your time is worth😁
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hi
looks like mineral spirits will loosen the glue. I almost have all of the speaker grille slats out!
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Excellent thread! I'm not even close to working on my interior but this topic inspires me to rescue the wood on my dash as it is very rough shape. Thank you mrfb and 66blue for sharing your experience and the links to the products.
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I would think some fiberglass resin would do a great job stabilizing the loose and delaminating sub-straight
Before you apply that though there is a watery substance you can paint on the wood and it hardens it
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hi
i used the JB weld wood repair on 3 areas thus far. no issues with it hardening so i can sand the area.
once i get all of the parts prepped i think the fun really starts. (applying veneer etc)
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It sounds like you are making progress. Try to posts pictures as you go👍
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attached are some photos of the items stripped waiting on new veneer
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and here are some with the veneer , I had breakout on some of the curves, I tried to use some water and go slow on the curves . some of the time it worked some of the time it did not.
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Matt,
Following your reports with great interest. Keep posting please.
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everything ready for stain, there is one veneer curve on the drivers bow i may trim the edge off and re do.
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As a reference I used minwax "special walnut" for my stain. Pick what you like👍
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hello
below is the varnish i selected for this project
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project after first real coat of varnish, the primer coat was cut 50% with mineral spirits.
I hope the varnish / urethane sets up so i can sand out any imperfections in the veneer edges
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Keep the final finish dull or you will regret ever doing this job. It will reflect like a mirror in the bright sun.
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here is a photo of the finished product.
the last coat of varnish was cut 20% with mineral spirits.
more photos to follow
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some various photos.
besides re veneering the wood, new seat covers, dash re covered, new wheel skins on steering wheel and re covered horn pad
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some tips to this project
to gain more space to install the thumb bolt behind the center cluster position the windshield wipers all the way open. (picture) its hard to see in the attached photo but with the wipers fully open you can get your hand in behind the center cluster and get that nut on.
also, i puts some electrical tape (yellow) on the knurled nut for the tach (or other gauges) to help me keep track of it if i drop it. I learned this this hard way. i have dripped the knurled nuts and sometimes they fall in the metal tray behind the instruments, its a real pain to find the nut with out the tape.
another tip is , once the bracket is on the back of the gauge , I twist the ground wire before sliding it on the stud, this puts a little tension on the wire so it does not slide off the stud before i put on the knurled nut.
last tip. you have to assemble the speaker grille before varnishing, you will never get it back together if you varnish then try to re assemble.
overall not a bad project, the veneer on the dash bows could be better. if i were to do this again i would spend about twice the time gluing the veneer and i would spray the varnish and sand in between coats of varnish.
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.../...the ground wire.../...so it does not slide off the stud before i put on the knurled nut.../...
To fit the grounding wire with its eyelet behind the instruments can be fiddly...
One tip is to drill and tap an M4 screw hole in the bracket; and conveniently fit the ground wire onto the bracket before it goes into the hard to reach area, inside the dash.
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=23851.msg170727#msg170727 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=23851.msg170727#msg170727)
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You can also elongate the ground wire and push its eyelet over the threaded stem at the back of the instrument and fix it between two nuts.
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Guess I was lucky (sort of) I decided to refinish the wood when the gauges (cleaning and fuel gauge replacement), heater controls and glove box were all out.