Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: SilverSpear on October 29, 2017, 14:07:28
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Hi guys,
Asking for help from early 250SL Pagoda owners.
My car is manufactured 4 july, 1967 and when I bought it back in 2011, it was missing the tools pouch.
I was able to find and purchase an original one a few days ago but had no tools. Now I am looking to purchase the correct tools following the date of manufacture of my car.
Appreciate any help anyone can provide. Will provide email by PM if needed.
Danny
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Fun subject! Here are some previous Forum postings discussing Pagoda tool kits:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=25999.msg186168#msg186168 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=25999.msg186168#msg186168)
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=21206.25 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=21206.25)
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=22237.25 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=22237.25)
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=24397.msg174517#msg174517 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=24397.msg174517#msg174517)
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I have already done an extensive search, not looking for a 280SL kit.
A member owns an early 250SL just like mine, he posted a picture of his toolkit in one of the discussions. Asked him for clear pictures of each tool... still waiting for his reply (if he wishes to).
Danny
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.../...not looking for a 280SL kit.../..
No major differences over the years. There was no "13" size fixed spanner included before 1965. Sometime late 1968 the Felo screw driver changed to plastic handle (was wood, painted black, before).
The water pump pliers had a different shape (oval vs. diamond jaw opening) on later kits. Time when change over happened not clear, may have been gradual
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As Hans states, the single most obvious difference is the wood handled screwdriver. I would not obsess over the other wrenches. Now for obsessive alert - the handle of the proper type, will have seven flutes and the chrome collar at the top should be about 1 cm high.
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Well... one should be obsessive if he is carefully restoring his car.
I have been gathering the correct parts for the past 7 years and will keep doing so until I have everything I need for the full restoration.
Please can you all show me pictures of the other parts outside the pouch?
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As for tool design in a W113 tool kit, I can comment on four items that deserves to be looked upon.
All these type tools belong to Mercedes cars after 1972; i.e. not original in a Pagoda kit:
1. Hapewe Pliers which were of a thinner design
2. Heyco Water pump pliers (slip joint pliers) of a smaller type with handles that had a different shape (Number 129 581 0038 on these)
3. A longer spark plug wrench, it had an external wire spring on it. Part No 000 581 1067 for this late (after 1972) type
4. Felo plastic handle screw driver of a smaller type, also has a shorter plug-in blade
See pictures attached
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Thanks Hans,
I am looking for similar pictures of the tools pertaining to the 66-67 years.
I will simply look for similar units and get them, even individually.
Thanks
Danny
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Here you can see an original 250SL tool kit including the bag
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Hi Danny,
Contact Mike, perhaps he can help you out.
Here ---> https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=26577.msg190120#msg190120
Best,
Dieter
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Thanks Hans and Dieter!
Contacted Mike...
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If I am not mistaked the pictured kit should also have a pair of black plastic fuse pulling pliers.
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The plastic fuse puller pliers were not a part of the regular tool kit. These could be purchased separately from the dealer.
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Jonny,
Do you know were I can purchase one? It's the only item missing from my tool kit.
Dieter
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Certain, early, type is here: http://www.authenticclassics.com/Fuse-Puller-for-Mercedes-p/auth-003744.htm
They show up on ebay from time to time (e.g. fuse puller), that is where I got mine.
I remember, however, that there may be two types of those (with or without, excuse my language, balls) and they might not have been present in all of the tool kits (early vs. late). Please refer to Tech Manual and probably other threads as for which one fits your car.
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Thank you Pawel!
Dieter
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You are welcome!
Funny enough I just got this on my e-mail: http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1107378337368&ca=833b66ae-d091-4672-a362-399e44e74026
:)
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Do they really come in Plastic?
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They do. And it is funny when you take them in your hand the first time, as you expect something of a pliers size. And they are maybe 6-7cm, more like tweezers. :D :D
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The new ones being sold right now, are they 100% identical to the real deal?
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Not sure, but I think these are the old ones being sold.
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Here you can see an original 250SL tool kit including the bag
Hans, Your plastic fuse box should have 6 long fuses and 4 short ones. You seem to be missing one long one. ;D (Sorry, I just couldn't resist pointing that out.)
The rest of you talking about the fuse puller plier: As Jonny B stated, and as shown in Hans' tool kit, the fuse puller was not part of the tool kit. It could be purchased separately as many other things could be (special tools, under hood light, luggage, roof rack, etc.).
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I have read in the Tech Manual that it was added to the late 280SLs. I am certainly not sure about it - therefore references in my post to Manual and Forum. Quote from our Tech Manual:
"The 60's and 70's sedan tool bags were mostly canvas (early were green and later red) with string ties. Many of the tools in these kits were the same tools as in the W113 tool kits. The unique items in the W113 kits were the long handled "channel lock" style pliers, and the plastic fuse pliers on the later W113 cars. The spark plug wrench for the fuel injected SLs and sedans of the era was a bit different also."
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Pawel,
That is interesting.
Regarding the Plastic Fuse Puller Pliers: I wonder if whoever wrote it can step up and tell us how they know that.
We have a record of the changes to the Pagoda over the years.
Hopefully an expert on those changes will chime in. When I get a chance I can look through all the documentation of changes that has been sent out over the last many months. The part numbers for the fuse pliers are in the Tech Manual, but I find it funny that every photograph and Mercedes Benz artwork shown in the Tech Manual do NOT have any fuse pliers shown. Also, I've had conversations with original owners that state they never got one in the tool kit. But, the owners I talked to might have been owners of earlier cars. Until I am convinced, I don't believe the fuse puller was part of the original kits.
Regarding the spark plug wrench, that comment is a little vague. We have part numbers for that one.
From the Tech Manual:
◾a spark-plug wrench (German: Zündkerzenschlüssel), the 230SL originally used part no 000 581 0067 and 000 581 0667 both of which were replaced by 000 581 0567 by 1967, the 250SL/280SL used part number 000 581 0567 until production end, part no 000 581 1067 was subsequently supplied as a spare part after 280SL production ended
I hope we can get to the bottom of this and make corrections in the manual if needed.
Mark
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I just realized I hijacked the thread.
Sorry about that, but back to the subject, I don't believe anyone is making a claim that the 250 SL toolkit contained a Fuse Puller Plier.
So, SilverSpear, I wouldn't worry about the Fuse Puller Plier for your 250 SL.
Good luck on the rest of the search. I've done the exact same thing as you for my Anthracite 280 SL (sold).
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Mark, thank you - this is valuable input as it makes us more educated on the history of our cars.
And no, certainly no claim on what was the content of the tool bag - just showing where I recently spotted those pliers when I was looking for headlight screws.
I think that there is nothing wrong, however, in having those pliers in the tool bag as they are sort of funny device (especially those with balls) and may come handy if need be. :)
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I based my comment on information similar to what Mark. The fuse pliers are not shown in any of the manuals. Or the parts list for the tool kit (although those are not the most reliable).
The fuse pullers also do not show up at all on the earlier cars (pontoons, gullwing)
The one use I have found, is my annual ritual for rotating the fuses to ensure a good contact point.
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For what it is worth: My original tool kit was stolen from my car during shipment from England in 1970. I ordered a complete new kit from the local dealer in Birmingham in late 1970. The replacement kit included the plastic fuse puller pliers. All appears correct in the kit except that the Heyco slip joint pliers do not have the embossed star.
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Ok guys, there is some conflicting info:
Authentic Classics lists wrenches as follows: 8x10, 11x13, 14x17 & 17x19 mm
The Technical page on the website is as follows: 8x10, 11x14, 14x17, 17x19
Authentic Classics seems more logical, since having 2 ends in 14 is pretty much useless...
Which is correct?
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11x13
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pics of original
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one more, rules only allow 4
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pics of original
John, I cannot thank you enough... finally!
Is that a wooden screwdriver you got there?
That proves that some info in the tech manual needs to be updated:
1- The spark plug unit for the early 250SL comes without spring (just like the 230SL). So probably whatever applies for the 230SL does also for the 250SL.
2- One of the wrenches is 11x13 and not 11x14.
Thanks again.
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John, your pictures do not show the slip-joint pliers. Did your kit not come with the slip-joint pliers?
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Yes, that is a wooden screwdriver handle.
I can't say if it came with a slip joint pliers or not, only that I don't have one. The previous owner was fastidious for 37 years about keeping the car as factory correct (unless he specifically changed some things like polishing the valve cover and refinishing the dash wood) as possible, so unless he lost it, I'd say it wasn't included. This is an EARLY 250 SL, and changes were made through the entire 250 SL run.
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I thought there is a 1cm Chrome tip to the screwdriver, is there multiple versions of it?
Or the tip is missing from yours?
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that would probably be an older style like what I have with my 190 SL tool kit
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Yeah makes more sense now.
Wooden screwdriver with metal tip (190SL), then wooden screwdriver without metal tip (230/E250SL) then plastic screwdriver...
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Danny, are you sure your 250 SL is an early model?
My 250 SL is a late model with vin ....3019 and built in June 1967.
Respectfully,
jz
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My 250 SL is a late model with vin ....3019.../...
Your 250 SL came off the Daimler-Benz production line in Sindelfingen on the 17th of July, 1967.
That was a Monday
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The spark plug wrench listed as a replacement (000 581 1067 ) is the later wrench with the spring in the photo above showing the incorrect tools. It is too long to fit into the tool roll.
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The break point for early to late is by the VIN number not the production date. The early cars are up to VIN ending in 2979. Your car would be considered early.
The break at "mid-year", cars with VIN 2980 and up, was to meet the new US Dept of Trans safety updates. See the listings in Pagoda Notes for a more detailed explanation of what changed.
Also, I would recommend you blank out the key codes on the data card copy you have posted. Items 16, 17 and 18.
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Hans
I know mine was Oct 69 but have no idea of the detail beyond that. Where do you find the actual build date?
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../... Where do you find the actual build date
The chart in our Tech Manual is a good start
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/USModelYear (https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/USModelYear)
Engelen book is a further enhancement. As seen on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Mercedes-Benz-190-SL-280/dp/3613031175/ref=sr_1_50?ie=UTF8&qid=1510251184&sr=8-50&keywords=gunter+engelen (https://www.amazon.com/Mercedes-Benz-190-SL-280/dp/3613031175/ref=sr_1_50?ie=UTF8&qid=1510251184&sr=8-50&keywords=gunter+engelen)
A note on this Book: It is considered to give very accurate information. Unfortunately, much other W113 Pagoda literature is riddled with inaccuracies.
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The break point for early to late is by the VIN number not the production date. The early cars are up to VIN ending in 2979. Your car would be considered early.
The break at "mid-year", cars with VIN 2980 and up, was to meet the new US Dept of Trans safety updates. See the listings in Pagoda Notes for a more detailed explanation of what changed.
Also, I would recommend you blank out the key codes on the data card copy you have posted. Items 16, 17 and 18.
Done ;D
On another note, I was able to gather most of the tool kit, except for the fuses box, a 21mm (metric) spark plug wrench and the 11/13 Heyco Mercedes (those should be the easiest minus the fuses box).
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Even with the datasheet taken from Mercedes, there are still inaccuracies. For example, how shall I know if my car came originally with the front side European blinkers or not? Color of the steering wheel? Which seatbelt type it had? etc...
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Early (US) 250s are easily identified by the cosmetics. Early have chrome inside rearview mirror, chrome on A pillars and windshield header, chrome ring and horn ring on steering wheel, chrome wipers, chrome gooseneck rearview mirror on the driver's door, hard integrated arm rest, door handle, map pockets on the inside doors (all Euro have this), no side markers on fenders, no front bumper guards. There is a bunch more, but this is easily identifiable.
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Early (US) 250s are easily identified by the cosmetics. Early have chrome inside rearview mirror, chrome on A pillars and windshield header, chrome ring and horn ring on steering wheel, chrome wipers, chrome gooseneck rearview mirror on the driver's door, hard integrated arm rest, door handle, map pockets on the inside doors (all Euro have this), no side markers on fenders, no front bumper guards. There is a bunch more, but this is easily identifiable.
This is what I am talking about:
(http://i65.tinypic.com/aw9jf9.jpg)
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The round side marker/indicators as fitted to your car were fitted for the Italian market.
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Even with the datasheet taken from Mercedes, there are still inaccuracies. For example, how shall I know if my car came originally with the front side European blinkers or not? Color of the steering wheel? Which seatbelt type it had? etc...
Inaccuracies? I sure would like to read some proof for that harsh statement.
Fore example, if your data card doesn't show a code for seat belts then the car came without seat belts from the factory, if it shows code 551 then it came with an ivory-colored steering wheel otherwise the standard black, it is as simple as that.
It is all described here: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/OptionCodes
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Thanks for the clarification guys.
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Getting back to the matter of the Italian market front side fender lamps, do I recall that these unique round orange lamps were not M-B units at all but rather Italian sourced and dealer fitted prior to registration in period?
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.../... these unique round orange lamps were not M-B units at all but rather Italian sourced and dealer fitted .../...
The side indicator lamps certainly are Italian type (same as fitted to Fiat etc.). However, in this case the M-B factory seems to have bought in the lamp units, and they were fitted in the factory on cars with SA620(version for Italy). The electrical feed is very nicely integrated in the wiring loom of the SL. It is not a simple add-on.
You can see these lights fitted onto the second (white) SL in the well-known factory photo
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So, if the Italian side lamps were fitted at the factory, what should one expect to find on the data card: the "543" country code for Italy, the "620" or "SA620" option code for Italian Version, or both?
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So, if the Italian side lamps were fitted at the factory, what should one expect to find on the data card: the "543" country code for Italy, the "620" or "SA620" option code for Italian Version, or both?
I would expect to see the 543 for Italy and the 615 for additional turn signal for Italy but not the 620 code.
We could ask Alex D to confirm. As I recall his car was delivered to his father at the factory with Italian specs as his father was living in Italy at the time.
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The side indicator lamps certainly are Italian type (same as fitted to Fiat etc.). However, in this case the M-B factory seems to have bought in the lamp units, and they were fitted in the factory on cars with SA620(version for Italy). The electrical feed is very nicely integrated in the wiring loom of the SL.
You can see these lights fitted onto the second (white) SL in the well-known factory photo
Hans is - as usual - absolutely right.
Factory installed, somewhere hidden in the general overall "Italian version option code" SA 615, 617 or 620. Hans knows this better than I since he has got an Italian SL.
There was/is a special SA code for these lights in the parts lists: SA 55502
The round Italian "Fiat 500 Bambino"type side marker lights were factory installed, had an MB parts number which was two times replaced, and only the well known US side marker light number remains:
A 000 822 41 20 BLINKER LAMP
Replaced by:
A 000 822 57 20
Replaced by:
A 000 826 03 41
and
A 000 826 04 41 - SIDE REFLECTOR
Enjoy, ;)
Achim
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I would expect to see the 543 for Italy and the 615 for additional turn signal for Italy
My car early 280SL was sold and delivered in Italy. On the Data card, 543 is visible in Ordering No (AuftragsNr) and code 617 is in the list of SA
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Thanks Hans, question resolved! Looking at the list of codes again, 617 certainly makes a lot more sense.
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you can buy the fuse boxes from mercedes parts for about $7. You'll need to find the stubbies though.