Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: mrfatboy on August 29, 2017, 23:40:07
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I finally got around to making my new under dash panels for my 280sl. I do have the old ones but they are pretty far gone. Especially the driver and passenger sides.
I believe my original panels have never been mounted correctly. The PO tucked the panels under the under dash pads(bolsters?) and screwed right through the panels.
There seems to be two methods that these panels were mounted to the dash. First, was just screwed in. Second, push pins where used. Authentic Classics offers a under dash panel hardware kit. The kit looks like it contains all parts for push pins and screws depending on your mounting method.
http://www.authenticclassics.com/Underdash-Panel-Installation-Kit-for-230SL-250SL-p/auth-002803.htm
My car was built in Aug 1968 (US).
As you can see from the pictures, the drivers side has two holes in the dash. These holes are bigger than normal screw holes. I don't see any threading in them. I'm guessing these were for the push pins?????
The passenger side dash only has screw holes for the under dash pad. There are not extra holes for the under dash panels. How is the passenger side mounted?
I have been told that the center panel just wedges under the dash pad and no screws are needed.
I fellow member here has a May 1968 280sl. His driver's side panels are screwed in. When did they switch to push pins and or back? It seems the switch had to be in that 3 month period. Did all post Aug 1968 cars start using push pins?
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My 280 SL is a September 1969 build. All the panels under the dash are screwed in. On my 250 SL, all the panels are also screwed in place. Never heard of push pins before.
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My 280 SL is a September 1969 build. All the panels under the dash are screwed in. On my 250 SL, all the panels are also screwed in place. Never heard of push pins before.
Intersting. Did you happen to look at the kit that authentic classics sells (the one I linked above)? There are two (what looks like) push pins in the center of the picture. What are they used for? Where do they go?
I also have this faint memory (15+ years ago) when Dave Gallon looked at my car he mentioned that I was missing push pins. My memory could have easily failed me though😀
Now regarding the passenger side panels... I don't have any extra screw holes to mount the panels. Why would that be? Are the existing dash pad supposed to be used with the panel sandwiched between?
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My two pagoda construction year august and september 68 have also on the driver side 2 big holes for pins.
I could imagine it is then faster to dismantle.
Peter
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@peter
You say you have the bigger push pin holes on the drivers side. Are your panels mounted using push pins or did you switch over to screws? Can you post a picture?
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The pins are also gone.
I've been asking for a long time
why the hole is so big. I've put it underneath.
Peter
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I just noticed that I also don't have an existing screw hole where the drivers side dash panel would be screwed to the firewall behind the pedals. Instead I have a clip mounted to the firewall. See pic.
Am I correct to assume the panel is tucked in there?
It seems cars with push pin holes have the clip and those with screws all use screws to mount.
So far aug-sep 1968 280sl cars have the push pin configuration then sometime they switched back to screws. Any others? Can any body else shed some light?
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Checking the spare parts list I can see that the spreader clip p/n 000 988 2378 is not listed in Edition B (Jan 1968) of the 250SL/280SL book but shows up in Edition C and two are required per car.
We had a bit of discussion already on these panels: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=16175.msg112442#msg112442
I believe 49er's driver side panel was too short to reach the tab on the bottom at the firewall but was screwed on on the top. His passenger side panels are wedged on top under the pad.
Perhaps he can join in here and explain it in more detail.
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@66andblue
Was there any mention of washers when you found the part number for the push pins? Looking at the photo provided (Authentic Classics link provided above) for the under panel hardware kit there looks like the push pins are used in combination with washers. There is a mercedes PN for the washers in that picture but I can't make out the number.
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Don't know why you are so hung up on a vendor assembled kit that applies to panels in all W113 cars not just an early 280SL like yours. ;)
Of course, the parts lists show washers (p/n 009021 003105); 7 per car together with 7 lens head screws (p/n 007981 003227). They were already required for the 230SL cars.
The only new item in Edition C is the spreader clip. Unfortunately, the parts list does not show when the clip was introduced and for what time period.
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Not hung up. Just using it as a reference.
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As a reference for what? ???
If you need a reference why not use the official Mercedes spare parts lists?
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I believe 49er's driver side panel was too short to reach the tab on the bottom at the firewall but was screwed on on the top. His passenger side panels are wedged on top under the pad.
Perhaps he can join in here and explain it in more detail.
Alfred pretty well sums up the way the panels are held in place on my car (June 68 build date) but I am pretty sure the drivers side panel does reach the floor board clip. Car is covered but I will try to take a look tomorrow.
John
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Clarification -
After looking at the photos posted, I had to go back and take a closer look at my 280 SL. The panel on the drivers side, far left, does have two pins (That is what the head looks like anyway) holding it in place. At the firewall is the clip as mrfatboy has a picture of, and the panel does slip into that.
I was thinking you meant pins for the padded panels that you see when looking at the front of the dash. Those are all screwed in.
The passenger side under panel (grained heavy cardboard) is screwed into the firewall.
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The more I read this thread, the more I became interested in how my left panel was secured. I looked at a photo of my panel and noticed two holes that didn't seem to have any function. As it turns out, these holes do line up with two holes in the dash that I only discovered by taking an upward photo. Apparently somewhere back in time, the panel was removed and the pins lost so it was just pushed under the padded panel and dash. I did have the clutch master cylinder replaced when the car was fairly new so I suspect that might have happened then. The front of the panel is held just by the clip, no screws. I hope my earlier comments have not caused confusion.
John
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So ito sum up it seems that 280sl cars with the bracket (behind brake) that holds the drivers panel most likely used push pins. The center and passenger panels were tucked under the pads. The only two screws/washers that were used were on the passenger panel affixing it to the firewall.
So far we know that 280sl's (US only??) with build dates roughly from May 68 thru Sept 68 used the push pins. There could be more. People with other build dates would have to verify and post here.
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My 280 SL is a September 69 build and does have the two push pins. I was not looking in the proper place when I commented on my earliest post in this thread.
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Ok. Then if we are assuming Mercedes used the pins continuously until then switched back to screws then the current known push pin usage dates range from May 68 thru Sept 69 so far.
If other members could chime in here we could narrow it down even more.
Now for the concourse people (I don't have to worry about this😜. Lol), what type of deduction do they get using the wrong hardware?
There might be a push pin shortage coming. LoL😜😜😜😜😀
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.........There might be a push pin shortage coming.......!
Yes!! My 280SL is Jan 1969 production so my driver side panels is fixed by push pins and the firewall clip see pictures below. Drivers side panel is not mounted at the moment and I have misplaced the push pins. Not much chance of getting it back in before PUB. :(
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Speaking as "one of those concours people" (I judge and score for MB Club of America) this would be pretty tough to catch, especially since we really don't have a solid changeover point.
Now that you have called it to our attention however.......certainly not more than ΒΌ point.
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Hi all,
I don't remember reading about this topic in the past. It's great to learn new things, thanks.
Here is another data point for you. My "1970" 280 SL has the two plugs. The car was produced in August of '69 and is VIN: 11304412012287.
But, it is possible the previous owners did some mods in this area, I can't really tell you for sure. But, to me, it does look factory and the panels look original in shape and have the foam on the backside. As far as the color of the panels, mine are blue, not black or dark grey and I will start another subject on that topic so as not to hijack this one.
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I just got the last 2 on the west coast. 😀 Next stop Germany. They are actually metal and not plastic.
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Tom Hanson confirmed availability and I ordered two today - $2.20 each less discount.
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Another data point.
I talked to Dave Gallon the other day. He says his March 1968 280sl has screws for the underdash panels.
The switch over had to be around this time. As stated above 66andblue's May 68 has push pins.
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My 1970 (10/69 build date) has push pins.
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.../... says his March 1968 280sl has screws for the underdash panels
My May 1968 280SL has screws
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My February 1968 280SL (chassis 870) has screws.
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Could this also have a European vs USA model component?
Also, are you guys sure that your cars were not switched over to screws? Do you have the bracket behind the brake or is the panel screwed into the firewall?
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My May 1968 280SL has screws
Hans,
does yours have the holes for the pins in the dash?
Afaik, 250SLs did not have the holes, therefore, this begs the question, when did the holes show up?
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On mine, which is a USA model, the panel is screwed into the fire wall.