Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: RobSirg on August 05, 2017, 14:11:24
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Hi All,
I would like to know if W113's have 2 types of Hard Tops that differ around the B-Pillar. And if so, what are the differences (and why)? I couldn't find anything about this in my forum searches.
The guy doing my trimming has dismantled many hard tops and he seems to believe there are 2 types of hardtops.
If you look at the diagram on the SLS site (Type 1 attached) you will notice it differs from the one on our Tech Manual - as was also provided to me by MB Classic Centre (See Type 2 attached).
It appears Type 1 has extra chrome trims (Numbers #86 and #87, inside and outside of the B-Pillar) which do not appear on Type 2.
I am raising this matter because during my restoration the guys doing the chrome plating have somehow lost some of my chrome trims and I having significant difficulty finding replacement parts. Which has been further complicated by people referring to different diagrams and conflicting references to trims.
So - is there 2 types of W113 Hard Tops / Hard Top chrome trim configurations? If yes - Is there a different version for different regions, or did they make a subtle change during the production runs / dates? Is the Hard Top shell the same and only the trims differ? - IE: are the trims interchangeable?
Hope this learned group can solve this mystery for me.
Thanks
Rob
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Hi Rob,
I believe the Pagoda tops were all the same and that 'Type 2' depicted in your post, is mearly a poor illustration. The only differences are some tops had the chrome ski rack strips on top. I have not seen rear window heaters/demisters on Pagoda tops, but I suppose it could be possible.
Regards
Chris
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Thanks Chris,
This is a plausible explanation - and if you are correct, we should update the diagram on the Tech Manual.
It certainly won't help me source parts #85 and #86 - as when l asked MB Classic about the availability of these they sent me the Type 2 diagram and requested l refer to that one....which of course does not even depict those trims. ( FYI - I sent them the SLS diagram but they referred me to theirs - Type2).
Thanks for your input - Hopefully we can get more reference data.
.... and there's my trimmer who has dismantled at least 5 of these ( 3 in the last 6 months) and also believes there are two types of Chrome trim configuration at the B-Pillar.
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Rob,
the next picture in the EPC, next to the one you are showing as Type II, shows the headliner and you have all of the profiles you are looking for there. Just click 2 on the right of your EPC screen.
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Rob,
as Chris already typed there is only one type of hardtop, which received small changes during production of the W113. First the 1-part locking handles on the 230SL changed to 2-part removable handles on the 280SL, rails for a roof top carrier could be added and finally a heated rear window.
What you received from MB Classic is only half of a 2-page parts display in the 230SL spare parts list (see attachment). What SLS did was to combine both panels into one and add the parts that differ for the 280SL hardtop and also change the numbering to the most recent drawing in the catalog. That is, when you think that numbers 86 & 87 "do not appear on Type 2" it is because you only received half of the drawing. They are numbers 25 & 26 in what you would call Type 2.
You typed "It certainly won't help me source parts #85 and #86 -". However, if you click on #85 on the SLS graphic a new window opens telling you that it is Mercedes part number A11337950185 or A11337950285 for the left or right trim piece, respectively. If you click on #86 then MB part numbers A1137950585/0685 show up.
You can use these part numbers to order yours, and remember odd number are on the "left" and even numbers are on the "right" on LHD cars. Fortunately, the part numbers are the same for your RHD cars. :)
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There were rear window demisters in late hardtops. I had a used 69, bought in late 1970 without a hardtop. I found one from a 1971 which had one...a two-plug wire below, IIRC, the right window would have plugged into an outlet on the inner wall of the soft top compartment.
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There were rear window demisters in late hardtops.../...
That´s right, just as Alfred mentions in his reply.
Attached is a picture of the "pocket" where the wires for the H/T rear window defroster wires connect [borrowed photo]
A switch was situated by the ashtray
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I believe that yes, there are at least two variants to the hardtop. My very early 1963 had escutcheons (the triangular chrome pieces into which the male hardtop pins fit, at the B pillar) that were shaped a bit differently than the later models. The difference was minor, one had a shoulder on it that went all the way round, and the other did not, but I really don't recall which was which. I learned of the difference when I bought a new set instead of re chroming the originals, and they did not fit properly. I went back and had the originals rechromed. At least that was my experience.
Best,
g
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Greg,
I believe you are referring to the chrome cover plate on the B-pillar shown in this photo. Correct?
Indeed these covers on the early 230SL (until VIN 015566) were mounted a bit differently, they used two smaller screws to attach the cover to the pillar (on the front in the photo). Later ones have a single larger screw.
However, this modification did not change the design of the hardtop, or the locking pin that goes into these cover plates.
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Thanks Alfred, that is good clarification. I assumed that the shapes were different enough that they were not interchageable with the hardtops, but from your pics they do not look like they would need different fitment. Different car bodies, yes. Different hardtops, no. Thanks for the info.
g
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Thanks Alfred for your detailed explanation.
Seems clear that there is only one type of Hardtop barring the minor changes they made along the way.
This hopefully helps me replace the trims that I am missing.
Rob