Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: hauser on December 08, 2004, 14:36:09
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I've searched through the various posts on this subject but have been unable to find what I'm looking for.
Does anyone here have an original Hirschman? I would like to hear about manual and power antennas.
1. What is the lenth of the mast? Please specify if manual or auto.
2. Does anyone know of a supplier for an original type?
3. Does anyone have a part # for what would be an acceptable replacement.
4. Does anyone know of a supplier?
5. The black cap on the end of the antenna is it supposed to be there or was it just for shipping purposes? I've heard both.
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
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the car is in for storage but if it helps the mast is super long and I have the electric one
1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
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I have an original manual Hirschmann on my SL. It's a lot longer than the replacement model and has a nice chromed finish. Don't have the specific measurement offhand as the car is in hibernation. The cap on top is removable. It snaps on and off to reveal a slot for a key to raise it.
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Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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My current antenna has a mast length of 42". The Walter Odemer Co. is selling replacements that are 5'10" in mast lenght. Does this sound right?
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
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It's long, but 5'10" sounds too long. Here's a photo of it fully extended:
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Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Hard to believe no one has never posted measurements of this antenna. They've always referred to it as being very long.
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
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the black cap is there to eliminate the need for the key. This is common of manual antennae of the era. If you wanted extra security, you remove the cap, and only if you have the magic key, or small needle nose pliers, or a little screwdriver, would you be able to raise the antenna, and then break it off, since this was your original intent. For those folks who wanted to reduce the risk of breakage, but not carry around a silly key, you place the black cap over the top, now you can push the antenna nearly all the way down, so you can easily raise it with your fingers.
-Lewis, with a power antenna
66 230 sl 113042-10-016238
67 saab sonett II #43 of 258
00 saab 9-3 viggen conv
02 saab 9-5 aero
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Hauser,
I used a Beru model A350 (0 460 100 350) chrome electric aerial on my 230sl.
UK cost around £30.00
The five section mast is 1 metre long (High ??). I used a similar Beru mast on my brothers 129 fitted with a Hirschmann as original.
Both work fine.
naj
65 230SL
68 280SL
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Hello !
The Hirschmann fully chromed antenna
has a lengh of 91 cm. The part is
still available (but new old stock).
The price is aproximately about 150.--
Dollars. The quality is heavy Brass,
chromed.
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Tom
www.pagode.info
Admin note: 91cm is just under 36 inches.
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Hi,
Does anyone have a part # for this original or replacement Hirschman manual antenna? My local Mercedes dealer says it is no longer available through them, but if I have a part # it may "become available".
Brian Peters
Motoring Investments
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For what it's worth, my Becker Mexico operating instructions booklet says:
"Best AM reception: fully extend antenna.
Best FM reception: antenna length 1,10 m (approx. 43 inches)"
-David Pease
'66 French 230SL
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quote:
Originally posted by DavidAPease
For what it's worth, my Becker Mexico operating instructions booklet says:
"Best AM reception: fully extend antenna.
Best FM reception: antenna length 1,10 m (approx. 43 inches)"
Very interesting, but it makes sense!
AM = Amplitude Modulation. The height of the wave changes but not the length, so extend the entenna all the way out.
FM = Frequency Modulation. The length of the wave changes but not the height, so put the antenna at the proper length.
I've never paused to wonder what the amplitude of the FM band is. Modern antenna are shorter than 1.1 meters (43 inches), so I wonder if the radio broadcast standards have changed over the years or if the antenna technology is that much better?
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Hi, Rodd,
Yes, 43 inches is pretty long. I went out to my car and measured the current antenna (not an original Hirschmann [yet!], but it looks pretty good). It was about 35 inches long, pretty close to the 89-91 cm that Hirschmann's web site and others mention. I looked at where 43 inches would be, and I think it would be out of proportion for the 113; needless to say, 5'10" (70") seems even more so.
Tom,
You say the replacement is still available, NOS. Is that a manual or automatic antenna? (I tried your web site, and it looked like there was a "ton" of information, but couldn't find enough English on it for me to understand it.)
-David Pease
'66 French 230SL
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Look at this site for Hirschmann atenna's http://www.koenigs-klassik.de/_aerials_/_aerials_.html. Mr. Königs advised me not to use the upper part of my (manual)antenna when receiving FM. So to say: first extend the antenna in full length and put back the top part. I don't know if this will work with an electric antenna.
Gerard Wuisman
1970 280sl
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Check w/ Walter Odimer Co., Burbank CA 818/846-2819. Recommended by Tom Hanson & I have used them too. Very informed old line firm, authorized Hershmann service & sales. -JP-
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Hauser some early 1969 cars came with a Wisi (spelling?) anntena I am told they are also found on Gullwings and other rare MB's
My early 1969 280SL sports a Wisi I will measure it for you. Anyone else have a Wisi? They are rare and sought after by MB collectors. The print is very fine on the base of unit.
First Place AACA Show Winner 350SL July 2003
I love low mile Mercedes.
First Place AACA Show winner for 2004 280SL
1969 280 4spd Papyrus White
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I have a Wisi, but my car was fitted with a Blaupunkt radio at delivery by the dealer (Stahl Motor Company, Monterey, California), so I don't know whether the antenna came from the factory.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
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A 250 SL with a Wisi seems very plausible. It was a 50s/early 60s antenna, as I understand it. I have no doubt some were used later on occasion as well, as in the case of isofast.
I think it's pretty tough to find an NOS Hirschmann manual antenna today, but it's easy to find a good used one. It's the same model they had on MB sedans from the era and can still be found in many boneyards.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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My Becker radio came with a power Herschmann antenna but someone replaced it with a manual Herschman. I would like find a power atenna/
Dick M
1970 280SL
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Hello,
These original Hirshmann antennas (automatic and manual)came with owner's manuals! I have some of these and they were originally attached to the antenna keys and were with the car books if the car had a radio.
The one for the manual antenna is 15 pages and in several languages! It explains the plastic cap usage, the keys, part numbers and maintenance of the antenna.
Some of the interesting reading ; "The bottom telescoping tube must always be fully extended. Only then a good reception can be insured." " We would like to recommend our special auto aerial grease (Aute 235) in tubes."
The automatic antenna came with a booklet also and a warranty card.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Here is my Hirschmann story:
My power antenna died about a year ago, but it was up, and I just continued to use it. I'm now in the midst of all of those annoying fixes that one just puts off, and it's time for the antenna.
I decided that I wanted a Hirschmann (my dead one was a Harada, came with the car), and an automatic (to go with my newly refurbished Becker Mexico, courtesy of Ed Ebel).
I checked all of the usual sources, and eventually called Walter Odemer. They suggested a rebuilt Autra 6000U, for a mere $350. I'm sure it's lovely, but I could almost buy a taillight for that price!
So, off to the local (San Jose, CA) Mercedes wrecker yard, where I found a shelf about 6 feet wide and 3 feet deep stacked 4 or 5 high with Hirschmann antennas (all of unknown history, of course). I picked out three 6000U models that looked promising. (I was looking for: a good mast, good mounting chrome, and an intact drain nipple and hose, as well as overall good condition. Also, the guy at the yard said that when the mast is fully retracted, the motor is almost always good.) All three had the old-style (old Mercedes-like) bakelite(?) connector with 5 pins. Anyway, he sold me an armload of three for $100. I was in Hirschmann Heaven.
I went home and dismantled all three (there's a parts diagram of the 6000U that I believe someone posted here recently, from Odemer's, but you don't really need it). After a lot of experimentation, I figured out the connections for extending and retracting the mast, and found that all 3 motors were still good. Anyway, I used the best parts from each, and built a lovely, quiet, reliable 6000U. (I could probably put together another good one with the parts I have left.)
6000Us come/came with different length "necks" (the part between the motor housing and the head). I wound up using a long neck (maybe 8 inches), and it was very easy to install. I'm sure the short neck would work too, but the long neck put the motor housing down where I could easily secure it.
So, I have a beautiful "new" Hirschmann for $100; it looks and sounds great.
If anyone's interested in any more detail (as if this wasn't long enough!), let me know; I'd be glad to help.
-David Pease
'66 French 230SL
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David:
Great story. Thanks for sharing and offering good encouragement to those with antenna issues and a quest for originality.
Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA
1964 356C
1971 280SL
1973 911S
2002 SC430
2004 A4 3.0
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Ok,
I have no idea if my antenna is a Hirschmann.
It has always protruded above the mudguard about 150mm but there was always a spring feel as though there was a way of pushing it in further.
Sure enough I pushed it into itself where it locked in place.
I released it again with 2 small jewellers screw drivers.
So my need is to make a new antenna key.
The slot of the antenna is about 1mm x 5mm.
In the middle is a small ridge. I figured that was to limit how deep the key would go.
The spaces on either side is for the key to push aside a clip? of some sort that closes over the top of the antenna.
I think the key should be a piece of flat brass or steel with a small cut in the middle. The outside edges should have a slight taper to allow for easy insertion of the key.
Can someone please post a photo of an original antenna key.
Thanks
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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Bob:
Here is a photo of the two Hirschmann keys and 16 page booklet that came with my car, a 1971 280SL. The keys bear the Hirschmann logo, so they must be original. They are quite small, about 3/4' in length.
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Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA
1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0 (wife)
2006 GS430
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Hey Ed,
Thanks for that.
I am not sure if that shape will work on my antenna.
I will try to have a closer look to understand the way it works.
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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The manual antenna on my car was broken when I got it, but here is a photo of a small (28 mm x 19mm) key that I suspect may have fit it. If it's not an antenna key, does anybody know what it might have been used for?
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Chris
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I think that's an antenna key for a manual Bosch antenna, not a Hirschmann.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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I have an original on my car, and a key. How is the key used?
Joe
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There's a black plastic cap on top of the antenna. Pop off the cap and you'll see an indent for the key. You insert the key, turn it slightly, and pull up. (Or you just leave the black plastic cap on and give it a tug.)
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Hey Chris,
That key looks like it will do the job.
I have added some numbers (1-6) to your picture. See the attachment.
Could you please add some dimensions corresponding to the numbers?
1. is across the outside of the pins
2. is across the inside of the pins
the others are self explanatory.
I will try to make a key to match your dimensions.
What sort of metal is it and how thick is it?
Thanks for your help
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Here is a pic of my antenna folded but not stored.
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Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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Bob,
Here are the dimensions. Numbers 3 and 4 are hard to measure exactly because the transition between them is a curve and the two sides are slightly different, as shown. The total of these two measurements is definitely 6 mm, though.
1. 7 mm
2. 4.5 mm
3. 4.5 mm (5 mm)
4. 1.5 mm (1 mm)
5. 4 mm
6. 10mm
Thickness: 1 mm
Depth of the space between the prongs: 6 mm
It appears to be just a flat piece of steel. Note however that the last 1.5 mm of each prong is turned up just slightly.
Hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of any further help.
Chris
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Can anyone recommend a web site for Hirshmann antennas? When I tried the one listed below in Germany it didn't work. I'm looking for a manual one for a BMW; I could only find one online for $90. I don't need ten prices but I'm curious how the prices vary. Thanks.
- Peter
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Hey Chris,
Thanks for the dimensions. Great help
cheers
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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Does anyone know if you can use the old/original base with a new mast? It seem that the new antennas do not have the h logo.
1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.
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quote:
Originally posted by DavidAPease
..... So, off to the local (San Jose, CA) Mercedes wrecker yard, where I found a shelf about 6 feet wide and 3 feet deep stacked 4 or 5 high with Hirschmann antennas (all of unknown history, of course). I picked out three 6000U models that looked promising. I was looking for: a good mast, good mounting chrome, and an intact drain nipple and hose, as well as overall good condition. All three had the old-style (old Mercedes-like) bakelite(?) connector with 5 pins. Anyway, he sold me an armload of three for $100. I was in Hirschmann Heaven.
I went home and dismantled all three (there's a parts diagram of the 6000U that I believe someone posted here recently, from Odemer's, but you don't really need it). After a lot of experimentation, I figured out the connections for extending and retracting the mast, and found that all 3 motors were still good. Anyway, I used the best parts from each, and built a lovely, quiet, reliable 6000U.
Hauser,
Maybe David knows - he seems to have seen every part disassembled!
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Hi, Hauser,
In my admittedly limited experience, I can't see any reason you shouldn't be able to use any base/mast combination. I think that the only critical things are that the mast fits through the base (without too much "slop"), and that the threads on the base screw into the antenna housing. I couldn't find any evidence that either of these had changed over many years.
-David Pease
'66 French 230SL
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I'm looking for the correct Hirschmann automatic antenna model # for a 1971 280SL. I've read most of the threads here regarding the Hirschmann antennae but none address specifically the original model number. There is quite a lot of mention of the Hirschmann model 6000U as a suitable, all be it expensive, model to use. Would this be considered "factory correct"? Also, would a 6000H unit work as well if a 6000U can't be sourced?
Lindsay (Southern California)
1971 280SL
180G, 396 G Top
M-B Tex Blue
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Lindsay:
I've got a 69 and I have the original antenna paperwork. It came stock w/ AUTA 6000F58. It was replaced at some point as I recently replaced mine and the one in the car had model #AUTA 8600S. The mast guide snapped. I ended up replacing w/ AUTA 2040 which is readily available on Ebay. (Had to adjust the mount is all). I would think any of the 6000 model are quite similar and would be correct. I didn't see much difference between the 8600.
Dana DuBois
1969 280sl auto
blue (906)
Corinth, TX
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Does the Hirschmann Auta 2040 have a similar chrome bezel to the original style that has the Hirschmann "h" insignia? How many sections is the antenna when fully exteneded and what is the fully extended length?
Lindsay (Southern California)
1971 280SL
180G, 396 G Top
M-B Tex Blue
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Lindsay,
I believe the part with the "h" on it is a piece of chrome trim. It's not part of the antenna.
Douglas Kim
New York
USA
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Lindsay:
Just looked at the box which states 99cm from base to fully extended. It's got 5 sections on the box picture. I would verify but my car's undergoing a strip and repaint though it was supposed to be ready last week....
Dana DuBois
1969 280sl auto
blue (906)
Corinth, TX