Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Jimb1231 on April 13, 2016, 17:33:59
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I want to replace the worn M/B logo hood emblem/badge on my W113 hood and after spending $365 for the new badge (M/B OEM P/N 113 817 00 16), am puzzled on how to remove the old badge and install the new badge. The new badge has a stud for securing it to the hood by a threaded nut but when examining the underside of the hood, I discovered that the underside of the hood where the badge is located is actually a closed plenum chamber resulting in this mounting method not being possible - i.e., allowing access to the hole in the hood for mounting the nut to the threaded stud. I'm wondering if the existing badge on my car is cemented to the surface of the hood rather than being secured by a threaded nut on the stud of the badge. That then leads me to believe I may not have the correct badge for my car. I'm hesitant to start trying to pry the old emblem/badge from the hood - if it is secured by a threaded stud/nut. If it's cemented to the surface there is risk in damaging the paint or surface by trying to pry it off. In a previous career I worked with portable X-Ray equipment that might reveal how the badge is secured to the hood. Has anyone replaced the badge? If so, how did you remove the old badge, and how did you secure the new badge?
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Hi, Jimb,
You have the correct badge.
You may be able to put your hand behind the badge with the hood open and undo the small nut (7mm I think)
There shud also be a shorter stud with no threads on the badge which located the badge on the hood.
Happy fixing
naj
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Jim,
Look a little further down in front of or below the frame (plenum as you call it).
I's there as Naj says.
Walter
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With the hood open, Stick your hand in through the lower part of the grille star and you will find the nut.
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I can confirm that you should be able to see a nut on one of the studs. I just removed the badge today on a 1970SL. I had the hood off when it was removed and was easily visible.
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Thanks to all for responding. However; I just confirmed again that the nut holding the badge to the hood is not accessible or visible. I can put my hand directly under the badge and confirm there's no nut there. The badge is directly above what I would call a metal, closed channel (depth approx. 1/2 inch and 1.25 inches wide) where the badge is located. This channel runs the full width of the hood and continues along each side of the hood. It is this channel or structural support piece that the hood support rod is attached to on each side of the hood. The support piece is one single piece and cannot be separated from the top surface of the hood. It is an integral part of the hood and offers structural support for the hood.
I guess the only way I'm going to be able to remove the badge mounting nut is to remove the hood, drill a hole into this channel, directly under the badge, and large enough that I can pass the shaft of a Spin-Tite nut driver through it to extract the nut and install the new badge. I'm not sure why my hood is configured this way. Far as I know, it's the original hood that came with the car. VIN is 113 044 12 012789.
I expect to be able to remove the hood in a week or so.
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The nut that secures the badge is foreward of this channel you describe. It's on the leading edge of the hood recessed up. It's a bit deceiving using your hand because you contact the support structure first. Use a small mirror passed through the grille star to get a closer look. (See Pic)
You can check if your hood is original by matching the 4 digit stamping number on the left rear underside corner with your body plate number.
Funny thing about my badge. It is not centered in the hood. It resides about 1/2 inch left of center. The hood is original and there appears to be no repair ever done to it. I am wondering if the holes for the badge were part of the stamping process or they were added at the end after the hood was assembled. It's far enough off that its noticeable when looked at closely. A Friday car mistake perhaps?
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Tyler,
Thanks for those pics of your hood/badge. I crawled under the car and while looking upward through the clearance of the radiator and the cross member mounting the bumper to it, can clearly see the hole where the threaded stud would be. In my case, there is no threaded stud protruding through this hole. The threaded stud on the badge would be on the lower side of the badge when it is oriented with MERCEDES on top of the star. I can clearly see what is the hole where the stud would be but it appears the stud has been cut off. Again, the hole is visible but it has been painted over. The hole is on a flat plane surface and there is no stud and no nut. Most likely, whomever installed the badge has affixed it to the hood with a cement or ahesive. Not sure if it makes any sense to remove the hood, in that there is no mounting stud or nut. I will probably try to remove the badge by very carefully prying it from the hood - taking utmost care not to cause cosmetic damage to the paint when doing so.
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I might suggest some light heat (blower dryer) on the badge and that area of the hood, to softer up what ever adhesive might have been used, before trying to pry up. Also maybe some tape on the surrounding area of the hood and a thin piece of plastic or wood to pry against. Want to be so careful to not pull up any paint...
Free advice-- worth what you paid for it!
Good luck
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Many thanks Kazoo. I am going to consult with a friend at a well respected body shop before making any attempts to remove the badge. Your idea has merit. I still think the only way to safely remove it is to take the hood off the car in order to have better access to that area and to facilitate applying a controlled, restricted amount of heat to the underside of the hood where the badge is located - so as not to scorch or affect the paint on the top surface. Might also be possible to use a punch to put pressure on the bottom of the truncated stud to break it loose. Once I do this (hopefully in the next 10 days), I'll post the results.
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More free advice....RESULTS MAY VARY
CAREFULLY use a razor blade to go around the badge to make sure you don't lift the paint as you pull it up.
I once had a similar issue and I ended up drilling a hole in my BMW badge to put a screw in it so I could pull on it - someone glued mine down as well. I pushed from below but also I tied a rope to the screw and used my block and tackle (tiny one for bicycles) up to the ceiling to put added pressure on the screw as I carefully got a long razor blade under the emblem and sliced away.
Once I got it up a bit I twisted it slightly and kept cutting. Try a plastic putty knife first just incase its only silicone.
That was the first time I heard the name Rube Goldberg.
Mine was glued down with construction adhesive but I got it off and put a shiny new one on without damaging the paint.
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Nice! and congratulations! I'm hoping I have the same luck. Very good advice is much appreciated.
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You might want to try using a dremel to carefully grind down the badge completely , in order not to damage the paint.
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Instead of knife/razor, I know some body shops use a thin wire to cut through the glue/cement.
It is a slower process which should result with no damage to the paint at all.
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My two cents... With heat gun/ hair dryer heat the badge directly for a few moments.. and then with a foot long piece of dental floss slide under the upper edge of the badge and work it side to side as if cleaning your teeth (like a sawing meathod) works slich as hell.. can find vidios of badge removal on U Tube... watch video & go for it.. :)
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Funny thing about my badge. It is not centered in the hood. It resides about 1/2 inch left of center. The hood is original and there appears to be no repair ever done to it. I am wondering if the holes for the badge were part of the stamping process or they were added at the end after the hood was assembled. It's far enough off that its noticeable when looked at closely. A Friday car mistake perhaps?
Hi Tyler S.
A couple of years ago, I noticed that mine, too, was offset. I raised the issue here, but apparently only my car and a few others that I found photos of were affected. I fixed mine by grinding off the stud(s) on the back and centering it by eyeballing it, marking the position of the badge on the hood with masking tape, then attaching it with badge mounting adhesive tape (a kind of thin, black double sided mastic tape). I suspect that it has something to do with the fact that the hoods are made larger than the space they are meant to fill and meant to be made smaller to fit by trimming. If one does it the easy way instead of the right way and trims everything from one side, the hood badge hole(s) end up off center.
When it looks right, in my opinion, its right! Mine looks good now.
Tom Kizer
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Thanks Tom. Well since it is part of the car and has been there since birth I will probably leave it as is until I get the car painted down the road. Will then repair
the holes and re-drill them center. The paint under the badge has an imprint of the badge pressed into it so if I moved it now it would look worse.
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One other fact to take into consideration.... 190SL/300SL hood badges are the same except the upper stud on the back is the threaded long one and the lower stud is the short non-threaded one.
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Old badge was removed successfully and new one installed. It turns out the old badge was not positioned correctly and instead of using the threaded stud to secure it, whomever installed it placed it about 1/2 inch higher on the hood from its intended position. The stud had been cut off and the badge cemented in place with Bondo. There was not cosmetic damage resulting from the removal which was done by heating the underside just enough to loosen the bond, and dental floss inserted at the circumference to pry it loose. New emblem is now secured using the threaded stud using the existing hole in the hood. It's pretty now.