Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: 66andBlue on February 16, 2016, 06:39:04
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How high will it go despite its flaws? $198,000 (hammer price without buyer's premium)?
Any wagers?
http://www.rmsothebys.com/am16/amelia-island/lots/1968-mercedes-benz-280-sl-pagoda/1078635
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That was on the Brabus website.
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$150K +
Gorgeous color. Just a shame they mess up so much under the hood.
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Is this like "the price is right" ---- we can guess closest but without going over? My thinking is that this one will look tasty to many.
The professional photos really help sell this car --- it's like "Blueberries and Cream." Even with it's many non-correct items I would guess this will go for 175K. With a fistful of cash, someone's gonna want this for desert. The presentation may trump correctness.
The new owners can then spend another few thousand and put on correct carpet, horns, pad, etc. (but I doubt it, as it looks great)
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If you have a look at the history of this particular auction house you will see that they often top out and get record prices.
Just because it is RM Sotheby’s in their Amelia Island auction I have my money on north of $200,000
Garry
And the prize for the correct guess will be a couple of extra original Pagoda Group window stickers ;D
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My guess is $168,500.
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I have my money on north of $200,000
... And the prize for the correct guess will be a couple of extra original Pagoda Group window stickers ;D
Gary, you have to be more pricise than "north of .." to be considered.
I assume all price suggestions are without the buyer's premium.
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.../... a shame they mess up so much under the hood
We have touched on this matter a number of times in our Forum... They write this line: "car is just like it came from the Factory showroom floor in the 1960s..."
Indeed, to be questioned. The car is far from original in its appearence.
And as written before: "...at that price, you don't even get a pair of correct period type Bosch horns..."
/Hans in Sweden
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You don't get "period type correct horns" because they are not available. What they have on the car is what is commonly available. Even "restored horns" such as I've made, are merely a good looking item, but not precisely the correct tone nor volume. The original horns lived 6" from the ground, and were not sealed--thus even on some really well preserved cars they didn't last forever.
There are several other items that simply are restored or replaced with what is available. It's not a preservation car.
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.../...period type correct horns.../...they are not available
Well, not available, may be debated. One can certainly find something better than what those guys put on that car... Like:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIGINAL-UNIVERSAL-OLDTIMER-BOSCH-0986AH0203-HUPE-FANFARE-MERCEDES-W110-W111-/361156941556?hash=item5416a196f4:g:S1QAAOSwv-NWVKWg (http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIGINAL-UNIVERSAL-OLDTIMER-BOSCH-0986AH0203-HUPE-FANFARE-MERCEDES-W110-W111-/361156941556?hash=item5416a196f4:g:S1QAAOSwv-NWVKWg)
There are several other items that simply are restored or replaced with what is available
You are very right Michael. Many of the items/parts mounted on that SL is what you get today, if you order over the counter from M-B, i.e. substitutions not period correct parts.
I don't know, maybe what I'm looking for is a more subdued tone in the text (like "the restorers aimed at making this 280 SL similar in condition and appearance to the way it would have been presented in the showroom when new"
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Possible contender at Gooding. Its a 250sl but looks a bit more correct. (except for the tires) Catalog estimate $110k - $130k
http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1968-mercedes-benz-250-sl/
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I think the whitewall tires are more acceptable than the interior.
A European spec car should have hard door pockets, no "Defrost" decal in the center and on the blower knob.
But it sure looks nice and most likely will sell for the indicated price.
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Alfred I said somewhere else on the web where this car is discussed that my guess is $210k only because of where it is selling.
All of the errors are really easy fixes that would make a very good Pagoda. I would be happy if mine was that good.
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I estimate the hammer will fall somewhere between 190K to 210K €
However, it all (as we all know) it depends who is at the auction and how much they want the car.
RM does good work (they did some of the work on my car in 1992 before I purchased my car from my source in 2013) not all is perfect then as it was pointed out by Gerry those minor errors can easily be corrected. We should not expect RM to reproduce a perfect car as it once was when it rolled of the German assembly line, that would be asking too much.
Let us see what it will bring as she rolls across the block. Investing in a Pagoda now is certainly better then the stock market performance at the moment.
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A European spec car should have.../...
This grey250SL is a US delivered SL; which apparently was back in Germany for its restoration - then US again.
Clear indication (in addition to those points that you mention Alfred) is code "491" on the stamped body plate
/Hans in Sweden
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Well for a couple of window stickers I am going to guess $149000
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My guess is around US$275,000, my reasoning being that these fully 're manufactured' Pagodas are in big demand in Europe, where collectors want what is in effect a brand new car. The cost of this kind of restoration is huge. It would be a bargain at US$250,000.
PIp 1947
6 January 1968 280SL
Tunis Beige Metallic
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You can pick apart the minor details under the hood. You can complain that the steering wheel and shift knob are not correct and the tail lights should be all red, but this is a pretty damn fine looking car that I wager any one of us would love to have. I hope it sails past $200K, making all our cars a bit more valuable.
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So was this 250SL with a factory "soft top delete"? The soft top is the only top that has been on my 250 since I brought it home and only when I got caught out in the rain.
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So was this 250SL with a factory "soft top delete"?.../...
No. The metal stamped body No plate has a "6" on line three; this indicates delivered with "hardtop mounted on car, softtop folded". See our Tech Wiki section "Body and paint number plate"
/Hans in Sweden
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I'm with PIP.
It only takes two buyers with deep pockets and if they are there the $250,000 number might happen.
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No worries Frank, it will sell way past the $140,000.00 (US that is not our poor CDN dollar ~grin~).
Look for your new logo window stickers in the next Pagoda World to arrive shortly at your door.
Dieter
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The 68 Blue 280SL is very nice however I'd rather it have a patterned firewall pad. Doesn't say when the car was restored. My 65 has the same type of firewall pad as this 68 but that is the stuff that was available 12+ years ago. It is on the list of things to replace when I get to doing some engine compartment detailing.
I love the 2 tone color combination and will note the use of the earlier chrome 230SL interior mirror and aluminum door pockets. I will not go further into evaluation because I cannot ascertain without actually seeing the car in person.
I would love to see what a comprehensively restored 230SL to this kind of detail might bring.
I love all W113 SL's but the more I evaluate 280SL's the more I like the 230SL and early 250SL.
The market is currently valued as such that I continue to stay focused on the 230's. They are better buys and represent the original W113 design. They also touch the production timeframe of the legendary M198 300SL and W121 190SL roadsters.
This is just my personal perception and not stated as fact. I will revert to "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
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When it's all said and done I predict about $300K with the fees.
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Thanks Dieter
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$203,500
http://www.rmsothebys.com/am16/amelia-island/lots/1968-mercedes-benz-280-sl-pagoda/1078635
Not sure if that includes buyers premium.
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And the 250SL at Goodings sold for $143,000.
Looks like the market remains strong despite the stronger $.
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Hagerty's current highest valuation for a '68 Pagoda is $152.000. Hagerty's current highest valuation for a Pagoda is $180,000, for the '71 model. Let's see how their valuations look when they next update it. As a reminder, highest valuation for a Pagoda by Hagerty's 3 years ago was $75,000, for the '71 model.
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I saw it on Saturday before the auction. They got some of the details wrong, but it was hard to fault the overall quality. David and Brad from Bud's Benz were there, along with Will Milby from the Group. We had some fun picking it apart, ("Somebody stole the fan shroud") but agreed it was a very nice car, and that it would not take much to fix the details.
But you always wonder why, if it wouldn't take much to fix it, wasn't it done right in the first place. Sorry about the convoluted sentence.
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David and Brad from Bud's Benz were there, along with Will Milby from the Group. We had some fun picking it apart, ("Somebody stole the fan shroud")
Fan shroud? What fan shroud? :o :-X
Fan shrounds are not correct for European delivery SLs. Those came without ! :P
Okayokay, I know ... this "was" a US-delivery car but has now ... obviously fully been converted into a non-US "rest-of-the-(LHD)-world" Pagoda ... 8) ???
And those came without idle-shut-off relay and fan shroud, etc.
.... if you did the conversion properly.
Achim
(1964 Euro without fan shroud)
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I estimate the hammer will fall somewhere between 190K to 210K €
Looks like I was a bit off the car only brought 182,064 € ($203,500- US) I wonder if that included the RM commission. :)