Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: Pinder on August 19, 2015, 00:11:03
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Hi everyone. This is my first post. I am in the process of restoring a 1970 280SL. Original color is Ivory (its painted red now). I purchased it in Rye NY in April. Its been a roller coaster rid as I live in NJ and it had no NY title as prior owner had lost the paperwork and nobody in the DMV in NY had any records of it. Anyway It had been parked for 30+ yearrs in a garage owned by former owners Mother who passed away. Here is a pic of the block I had rebpored to next size oer 87mm and I have just painted it.
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Looking good! Lots of work left.
Keep us up to date.
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Had a busy day today cleaning up the crank. I installed the rear main seal as specified in the Haynes manual. I have a question about the rear seal. it says to leave the seal protruding aroun 0.6 mm. do i need to do this on both halves? i.e on the pan side and the engine side? or just one side. Also i sued a razor blade to cut it using a feeler gauge of 0.7mm thickness as that what the instructuons woth the seal specified. (Victor Reinz seal).
Any input would help.
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Sounds correct. Yes leave the excess on each half. Make sure the seal is all the way down in the groove before cutting it.
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Ok great. thank you.
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To obtain the correct flat surface when you make the cut you can easily make the special tool that is required.
Obtain some flat steel of the correct thickness, there is a drawing of this tool in the tech: section, someone will point you in the right direction if you want to do this.
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Good advice, it's what I use.
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ok i used two feeler gauges.
I have another question. Do i need to use new head Bolts when i install the head or will my old ones?
Regards
Pinder
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Ponder
Did you resolve the title problem? I had a similar situation and the seller recommended one of theses title companies that promise a clean title for 300 bucks. Turns out their operation was a scam and they were being investigated by several states. I ended up waking away from the car fearing that even if I got a title now, I would run a serious risk of having the title pulled after investing significant
Bucks in its restoration.
John k
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Yes,
I have a clear NJ title. If you live in NJ you can apply for a title sending all paperwork to NJ Special Titles Division, Its took around 4 months but it worked. All instructions can be downloaded from the NJDMV. I dont know what state you live in but if its NJ and you have a car with lost paperwokr it will work. I think total cost is around $200 for placing an add in the paper and having to do 5 certified title searches in the sourounding states you live in. I had to do a search in NJ , NY, PA, Delaware, CT, if all those come back wirh no records found and you place an add in your local newpaper with vin and make and you get 3 people to notiorize a letter stating they have seen you with the car and you have a notorized bill of sale also a copy of a bank check you paid will help. then it is legal and no middle man involved. NY only keeps paper workd for around 5 years which is where I bought my car. I would think other states must have a similar process. I do know that NJ is one of the hardest to get a title in. I also looked into getting the car registered in Main. But the legal NJ way worked out as the car was not stolen. It just happend to sit for over 30 years and all recrods were lost except for one that NJ did not accept as proof which was because the the NY registration on the one providied to me did not state Transferible. Howver it also did not say NON TRANSferible. anyway the local NJDMV folks didnt accept it so I used the special devision mail in option and those guys sorted it out. I actually had two NJ investigators show up at my house making sure I did not mess with the VIN number as being the lucky guy i am when at the DMV the receptionist claimed i tampered with the registration as she thinks it looked smudged. Well it was a almost 40 year old document.
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So this weekend I was able to install the Crankshaft, Front and rear seal ( bottom half of rear) and install the new Pistons 87mm. I also installed the oil pump.
I used the Harbor Freght piston spring compressor. Its not an easy tool to use but I have never done this before. It does the job but i suggest wearing some thick gloves. Has some sharp edges on the tool.
i used Permatext assembly lube and oil to put it all together. I posted a pic of the final stage i am at.
So at this point the block has been re-bored, new pistons, timing chain (also fresh semi gloss paint, and pump installed plus engine mount arms. I have also been painting and cleaning all the accessories like the oil pan etc. I find that so far for aluminum Mothers Mag wheel cleaner works.
what does NOTwork is : Oven cleaner or Napa Aluminum brighter. It jusr makes it all go black.
I did have a problem with the piston rod end in #5. For whatever reason, if I tighted the rod cap end to spec the engine would not turn. I then swamped the cap end for another and it worked fine. i,e engine would rotate. I then cleaned and sand papered the ends for the Piston rod cap and then it worked out fine. there seemed to be some black deposits on it. Maybe carbon?
Installing the piston retaining clips for the rods was a pain and took several attempts, in between fighting off NJ mosquitoes.
Regards
Pinder
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You appear to have the latest type block assembly, if you are going to purchase new head retaining bolts (which I would do automatically) make sure you obtain the correct ones for this block.
It is not a good idea nor is it accepted practice to change con-rod caps, you should send your suspect con-rod to a reputable machine shop and have it re-worked, in fact it would have been better if you had sent all of your con-rods for re-sizing.
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Each rod and cap is machined together as a unit. DO NOT swap one cap for another. Not sure what you meant when you said you "Sanded the ends" but if you sanded the area where the rod and cap touch each other or where the rod bearing shell touches the rod you will have to have your rods re-machined. bearing clearances or gaps are very tight at around 1.5 thousandths of an inch and any material removed could have disastrous results.
See thread entitled "Catastrophic Engine Failure."
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Sorry my description was a bit miss leading. I did not swap the rod ends during the final installation. I used the correct rod end in in the correct location. the swap was to see if it was the rod end that was binding or the bearing or something wrong with the crank. I did not sand the machined area that mates to the rod end bolts.
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Pinder,
Sounds like you took the right steps on the title. I live in Ohio which does not have any such unit to help locate good titles. I believe the third party company I used was trying to get the title through main which has since changed its laws. Its unfortunate because the seller had a rare 1958 thunderbird convertible (there is less than 200 in the country) that now will probably never be restored because it has been in storage wit lost paperwork for over 40 years. The happy ending to my story though is I bought my Pagoda when I gave up on the 58 T-bird.
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Some more pics to do with emulating Cadmium coating. Ive just done the sump bolts and dip stick tube. I have also installed the rear main seal to the pan. Will bolt it all down on saturday.
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Very curious on the "emulating Cadmium coating" what did you do or use? The bolts and dip stick look very nice.
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Jonny,
I ordered a kit from Eastwood. Basically it is paint. Comes with 4 cans of Clear top coat, Gold, Green and Red paint in spray cans. you clean the part spray 2 light coats of the base color which is like Goldish but its very thin paint and you want to put it on thin. the base metal should show through a bit. then hit it with the Red and green from a around 12 inches away very lightly and do it only in spots. then go over it all with the clear coat. I think you can vary the look byhow much paint you use. I found that if you first clean your parts very well and then maybe sand them to a shine and go very light on the paint coat so you still see the metal shine through with a hint of gold .i was very impressed with how close to real cadmium it looked. Im going to do this on the injection pipes too and wherever else i find i need cadmium. the paint is rated for 300 degrees . the kit costs around $50 and will be enough to do all the bits and bobs for the car. Obviously its not real cadmium but it will protect the metal and looks very close to the real stuff.
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Ah yes, I am familiar with that set-up. A good friend of mine in Ohio has used this, and after a bit of practice came up with decent results. One of the pieces that this really helps with is the constant speed solenoid on the automatic cars. This is dang difficult to plate (as in hard to immerse an electrical part) and the Eastwood paint approach gets it looking pretty good.
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About to install the lower oil Pan. (just finished installing the middle pan to the block using high temp RTV. for the lower Pan I have a gasket from elring. Should I also use RTV on it or install it dry?
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Before you do that, I have a couple of questions.
1) did you install a new oil pump?
2) did you use a new crank gear?
Both of these items end up getting a lot of wear during normal use. While either part should last 100K miles, they won't last 200K miles. If any shards went through your engine ( and really, how can anyone know this for sure ) then it's an automatic replacement. Peace of mind and money well spent.
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I concur with Dan, make sure you fit a new gear and pump, and make sure you have cleared out all of the oil ways.
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Yes to Crank gear.
No to pump.
Yes ive pumped all sorts of fluids down the oil galleries blown air through it carb cleaner. did this several times and them pured oil into it to furth flush out. I dont think I can flush it any more. But there is always that one grain of something.
the car had 52,000 miles on it when it was parked 30 years ago. Should I still replace oil pump?
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Good question. Any engine builder worth their salt won't warranty a rebuild unless it has a new oil pump and quite a few places want a new water pump as well. A fresh engine will make more power and power creates more heat. Your engine will run at the same temp as before but that heat will be created very quickly and the three cooling mediums; air, coolant, and oil need to be able to do their job. Good oil pressure and a good volume, clean block not covered in rust or grease, ( not saying yours is :) ) and a good volume of coolant circulating through the block and rad unimpeded by any blockages are all very important for optimum performance.
In short, I would install a new oil pump. ;D
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(just finished installing the middle pan to the block using high temp RTV.
I may be too late with this question but it may help someone in the future.
When you fitted the Ally: pan did you do a trial fit first (no sealant)?
It is always good practice that after fitting and trimming both the top and bottom rear oil seals that you fit the middle pan (no sealant), fit and tighten up all the bolts, turn the crankshaft over several revolutions.
Remove the bolts and the pan, inspect the area at the rear where the oil seal is located, you will find (most of the time) that there will be remnants of the fibre seal sandwiched between the ally: pan and the steel block.
Carefully trim this excess material away and reinstall the pan, tighten up the bolts.
You may have to do this exercise several times until you can add the sealant and bolt everything up to complete the job.
Some re-builders do not bother with the above and rely on the sealant, somewhere down the line an oil leak will develop, it never is there fault.
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No I did not do a trial fit but I did test a test fit and pushed down on middle pan cover around rear seal,and I did notice the fiber crush out and then I though I should trim those which I did. Its too late now as I've buttoned everything up, the Water pump I do plan on replacing.
This is all very good information and I really appreciate the guidance. I;m learning a lot.
Pic below is at what stage I am right now.
Which is: New pistons, block bored 87mm crank bearings, chain, new seals on cover plates, wire harness decreased and wire wheeled rust off then painted.
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Making good headway, thanks for the blow-by-blow.
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I've been using silicone for quite a while with fairly good results but I've also had some problems with leaks so I went back to Permatex sealant. Getting the exact right amount of silicone always was the key. Too little and you will have leaks, too much and it can wash off and get into the oil pump strainer. A small bead should form along the seam between the block and the pan as you tighten down the screws or you have a problem.
Frankly, spending three or more days to pull an engine just to reseal the pan made that choice easy. :(
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i plan on filling the engine with oil before i put it in the car to make sure I dont see any leaks. I may have to add a lot of oil to get it to the level of the seem of the pan to block. if this sounds like a bad idea let me know.
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Yeah, sort of....
These oil pan leaks won't normally be found using the method you suggest because it requires a running engine, heat, and generally above all, a certain amount of time before anything happens. In other words, you will find the leaks after it's all together and running for a while.
A bit of a disappointing piss off, but there it is. :(
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Dan,
Could it be that you did not pre-fit the ally: pan before you tightened everything up?
Try it next time and you will be surprised how much of the rope seal is trapped between the pan and the block.
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So today I installed the auxilary Shaft and Sprocket and Speedo shaft as well as install of Damper. I set piston 1 to TDC. Ive been following the Haynes manual. It said set to TDC then install damper. I think the damper can go on only one way but I followed the instructions os that hte timing marks are up and set to 0|0 on the pointer. the tricky part of this wa getting the auxilary shaft in. Had some trouble with the woodruffs.
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Also if anyone knows what to torque the nut on the Sprocket on the Auxiliary shaft (its teh one on the big gear in the pic). Let me know.
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Can you explain a little more what problem you had with the woodruff keys, the installation should have been straight forward.
When you fit the front cover it may be a good idea to remove the paint from the gasket area so that your gasket will sit directly onto the block surface.
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thats a good idea. I will remove the paint around the cover plate. the wood ruff key was sticking up too much so had trouble putting the sprocket on. I tried to push it down with my fingers but I guess its a tight fit. i used a pair of pliers and it then bottomed out and was able to slip on the Sprocket. it was just a bit fiddly and to make things easier i turned the engine upside down so i didn't drop the backing washer in the engine.
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Latest update.
Installed distrib housing after cleaning it, Oil filter pipes and housing, water pump housing (with old pump still installed , new pump on order). Whats left is to install the MFI and a few odds and ends. oh and the head which I am still waiting on.
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Most of the engine is put back together. Stll waiting for the Head from the machine shop but will be installing soon. Wanted to know what would be the recommended way to install the head gasket. The one i have is from elring. Is there any kind of sealant to use or should it be installed dry? I read somewhere to use copper sealant?
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Check the up and down movement of your vertical timing gear (tach drive gear). Also clean the head bolt holes with the correct tap. I use Permatex Coppper Gasket Spray adhesive on my head gaskets and a light mist of it on the head and block surface. I clean the surfaces and do a final wipe with alcohol before applying it. Others say do not use anything. Your choice. Lube head bolts as described in the BBB before torqueing.
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Indeed, check the tach drive bush for wear, it's often overlooked.
Here's a sample of what I have in stock; you can see the differences in height. The best one has come from an SE engine (No tach drive).
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Ok great. I will use the copper spray. There is no noticeable wear on the tack drive.
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I don't want to step on Joe's toes since he has assembled far more of these engines than I have but wanted to offer another opinion. I don't recommend putting anything on the head gasket. If you stick the block to the gasket and the head to the gasket the gasket has to absorb the shear movement caused by the different rates of expansion between the aluminum head and the iron block rather than the head sliding along the gasket as it should. I read a technical bulletin from one of the gasket makers that stated very specific requirements right down to the cylinder head surface finish for that very reason.
Most modern head gaskets are of a construction known as MLS which stands for Multiple Layer Steel. These gaskets are comprised of several very thin sheets of steel with or without any sealant between them which allows for the above mentioned movement to be absorbed within the layers of the gasket rather than between the gasket and head. These gaskets account for the steep decline in the number of blown head gaskets there are in recent years and also for the fact that a car with them will tend to eat about a cup of coolant between oil changes as some coolant will sneak between the layers and into the combustion chambers when the engine is cold. Sadly I am not aware of anyone making these for our cars.
Here is a little light reading on the subject: http://www.federalmogulmp.com/en-US/Technical/Documents/How%20To%20Prevent%20Head%20Gasket%20Failure%20-%20Improper%20Surface%20Finsh.pdf
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Hello Pinder,
When you refitted your cylinder head did you obtain new cylinder head bolts for your series iv block, if so what part #s did you receive, what is the length of the bolts?
I have uncovered a problem with the 145mm long ones that MB have supplied, I should have more info: next week to confirm this.
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Head bolt replacement on these M130 engines is not required as long as the heads and threads are good. Modern engines with "stretch style" head bolts are automatically replaced in many instances as they become elongated and fatigue.
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Joe,
I replaced these bolts because of heavy corrosion on the bolt stem.
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I have just got the head back from the machine shop so have not got around to installing but i plan to re-use my head bolts. I was looking around for new ones but they are not thart easy to find and as my head bolts look like in excellent condition and I dont think they are stretch bolts i should be able to reuse them. I think the only place i could find that havt them is metric motors in California. but based on prior comments im going to use my existing ones. I spent all day today re-pulling the engine to check that I had the clutch on the right way. (i did) but as I had a few drinks last time i put the engine in I wasnt sure if I did it correctly.
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Joe,
I replaced these bolts because of heavy corrosion on the bolt stem.
Probably had a leaking head gasket that seeped into the bolt holes. I've seen them corrode so badly in the their holes that we had to use heat to get one them of the block. In that case you would want to replace anything that looked suspect.
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Here is a picture of the original ones out of my 280SL its a 1970 and its the original engine and head . the lenghts are around 140mm and 110mm measured from bottom of head. the longer ones have a thick washer on them too.
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Looking at a picture of your block you have the latest series iv block (can you post a picture looking directly over the top) then the above bolts are incorrect for that block.
You require the longer 144mm and the short bolts should be 114mm long, Metric Motors have them in stock, do not get them from MB.
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Identify the block by the engine number or look for the hex inserts for the head bolt threads to make sure which version and length head bolts you have. By all means use the correct length head bolts for your head.
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If the vehicle has had a replacement block from MB fitted sometime in the cars life there is no engine number stamped on the block (they came from the factory with no number stamped on them), the only way to know you have the latest block (mk iv) is by inspecting the block surface to ascertain if you have the hexagon inserts fitted, these blocks require longer bolts to make allowances for the hex: inserts being inserted below the block surface.
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block has Hex inserts. the block jas the engine number stamped. So are these the wrong bolts? I do not beleive the enggine has ever been open up before.
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I would say they're the wrong head bolts. The correct ones are 115 and 145 mm long.
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That could still work Dan if the lengths you quote are for the entire bolts. Pinder said he measured 110 and 140 from the bottom of the heads, so excluding the heads.
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Cees,
Have another look at reply's 46 and 47, the way Pinder measured them is correct.
Pinder,
You will also require the correct head gasket for that block.
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Interesting.... maybe you can answer a mystery for us? Are there spacer clips installed in the slots between the cylinders?
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This is a picture of the block. there are no spacer between slots between piston bores.
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Yes, no spacer clips Thanks!
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Joe,
If you remember we had a lengthy discussion about these clips/spacers, I sent you a picture of the one I was working on at the time.
I am a firm believer that they should remain in the block as there is a ledge for them to sit on.
Another member thought they should be removed.
Do you still have the picture, if not I could send it to you.
I will send the picture to Alfred and ask him to post it here.
I look forward to the resultant discussion.
{Photo added}
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Pinder believes his engine has never been opened but is not sure? Also we never found a part number or documentation for the spacer clips. I guess it is still a mystery. I will look for the photos.
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Correct that I am not sure if it has been opened up before or not, I know the car was last running in 1985 as that was the last NY motor vehicle inspection sticker. It had been in storage after that. unless it had the head off sometime between 1970 and 1985 ( a period of 15 years). current clock mileage is 52000. so that would be either 152000 or 52000. So cant say either way for sure. Not sure if any would would remove something from the engine even during a rebuild. Makes no sense to me. I would assume some blocks have the spacers and some don't. I cant see why spacers are added in the first place. I would think they restrict water flow.
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At 152,000 miles there would be a lot of wear on the cylinders. At 52,000 miles you shouldn't see that much.
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I didnt see much wear. I did see corrison from sitting a long time. ?No lip at top. I am readt to put the head back on, I installed vavlues and new seals. machine show installed the vavlue guides and valve seats. any last advice before i install? I cleaned out all the head bolt holes.
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Make sure you oil the threads on the head bolts and under the washers before you start to torque the head down. I leave it rest about an hour between each torque sequence.
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Will Do Dr Benz. Any specific type of Oil.
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No, not really. I use ordinary engine oil. The main idea is to get a nice smooth pull on your torque wrench which is aided by lubing the threads at any point where friction would would be present.
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I thought that published torque values are with clean dry threads and are lower by a certain percentage if threads are lubricated.
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Need some help guys. I've installed the head and put the timing chain on. Put Chain pensioner on. checking the timing (crank at TDC and looking at notch on thrust washer. on Cam sprocket. if crank is bang on TDC (rotating crank clock wise to get to TDC on crank) the mark on the Cam tower is not bang on in middle of thrust washer mark. Is this OK or am I off a notcht? if I set the mark on Cam thrust washer to be exactly middle of notch on thrust washer the Crank shows almost 5 Degrees off TDC. This is a new timing chain.
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Here are some pics with Crank set at TDC and pic of Cam thrust washer showing where it its when Crank is rotated clockwise and set to TDC,
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crank pic
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My question is am i a notch out or is this is as good as it gets without chaning ALL sprockets.? Chain is new. Should I try moving one notch over and see where it all sits? Is it worth the effort or leave as is. I spent all day fishing out a dropped middle chain line from the oil pan so I would like to wrap this up.
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some updates. I torqued down the Cam sprocket to spec. after that when cam is at TDC the crank shows about 1.5 to 2 degrees off.
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I thought that published torque values are with clean dry threads and are lower by a certain percentage if threads are lubricated.
The BBB instructs you to oil the threads on the screws and oil under the washers.
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some updates. I torqued down the Cam sprocket to spec. after that when cam is at TDC the crank shows about 1.5 to 2 degrees off.
It's common for the notch on the cam bearing to be off slightly when the crank is at TDC. As long as it's off towards the manifold side you should not be in danger of having valves hit pistons. Look in the BBB for how to check cam timing. 2 degrees off isn't that much but it can be fixed with an offset key.
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Thanks Dr Benz. this is very helpful. I am going to leave it as is as I think its only slightly off and it is to the manifold side. I did draw a diagram to see how much the notch on the cam would move if I adjusted one tooth on cam sprocket and it would work out to be more off than how its set now so I didnt mess with it.
I now have the head on, IP timed correctly and just installed the water thermostat housing and alternator after a good cleanup. getting very close to firing her up. as i am cleaning and painting parts before i install this is taking a long time but looking forrward to fire up. Tomorrow I will be adjusting the tappets. They are way off (too tight).
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Any machine work to the head or the block deck will cause the cam timing to be retarded. Which means the mark will move to the manifold side. Think of it this way if you slightly lower the head you get a bit of slack in the chain which will move the mark to the manifold side. If I am not mistaken Mercedes used to sell various thicknesses of head gaskets just for that occasion but an offset key for the cam will achieve much the same result.
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Each chain link equates to about 18 degrees. As miles pile up, each pin in every link begins to slowly wear. Multiply this slight amount of wear by 134 ( number of links in the chain) and you have a measurable amount of chain wear. As Pat mentioned, machining of the head will also contribute to lateness of the mark. Multiply the amount the head was machined by two since the chain goes up then back down and the distance becomes shorter on each leg. Chains sprockets also wear and contribute to the lateness a bit. Earlier shop manuals address the condition. They explain that off-set woodruff keys are available to correct the situation, but then go on to explain that it will most likely not make any noticeable difference on how the engine runs and performs. In short these engines are designed to accommodate some lateness in the valve timing. Never advance the valve timing in front of the mark, not even a slight amount. You are fine with your slightly late timing. Only when the lateness approaches 7 degrees or more do I become concerned. Usage of off-set keys becomes tricky and confusing. The cam timing becomes corrected but the index marks stay late. Keep things like you have them, you will be fine.
Some perfectionists will use off-set keys, dial indicators and valve timing specs. to get exact valve timing. But as the early manuals state, "it will probably make no noticeable difference". Lets face it the valve timing is only exactly correct for a short period of time, then it begins going late every time the engine is run.
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No longer applicable.
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I am at the stage of installing the Valve cover. It looks like i need to jackup the rear of the engine to get this on without hitting the hood latch bracket. Is this correct? should i loosen off the engine mount bolts jack it up from the back?
also I am in the process of media blasting the intake manifold( actual i did that) and have the intake nose separated from the manifold. in my elring gasket kit there are two square gaskets. they are the exact same size. do both of these need to go in between the manifold nose and manifold.? (im refereeing to the nose as the piece that has the throttle body looking thing in it).
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You should not have to loosen up the engine mount bolts. A small amount of lift at the back of the engine with a jack should do the trick.
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I am at the stage of installing the Valve cover. It looks like i need to jackup the rear of the engine to get this on without hitting the hood latch bracket. Is this correct? should i loosen off the engine mount bolts jack it up from the back?
also I am in the process of media blasting the intake manifold( actual i did that) and have the intake nose separated from the manifold. in my elring gasket kit there are two square gaskets. they are the exact same size. do both of these need to go in between the manifold nose and manifold.? (im refereeing to the nose as the piece that has the throttle body looking thing in it).
Make sure you get every bit of sand out of the inside of the manifold. If there's anything still inside the manifold the sand will stick to it. If have mine cleaned before I blast them so that there's no chance of any sand getting into my engines.
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Yes I got the valve cover on with only a little bit of lift from the trans.
I used Aluminum Oxide as the blast material. It makes the intake look like matt grey. Im not partically happy with the colour but at least it looks clean.
What I really want ot know is should I use both the square gaskets or not?
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What I really want ot know is should I use both the square gaskets or not?
Hi,
I have only ever used one gasket when I have had the throttle body off.
Be sure to retighten it down when you retorque the head.
I found mine was sucking air after 500 miles in the middle of Europe ???
naj
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Yes I used one gasket. I think ill keep the other for the second car im working on.
Here are picks of the manifold media blasted and cleaned up, I think it came out a lot better than i expected. The Cadmium parts are actually painted. I checked that all the electronic items are working on and cleaned the inside as best as I could . Nose of intake cleaned up nice.
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Yes I got the valve cover on with only a little bit of lift from the trans.
I used Aluminum Oxide as the blast material. It makes the intake look like matt grey. Im not partically happy with the colour but at least it looks clean.
What I really want ot know is should I use both the square gaskets or not?
I use a small brass wire wheel on a angle grinder to polish any bare aluminium. This gives it a bit of shine similar to fresh metal and removes the dull haze left over from blasting. We also polish all of our metal parts prior to plating so they take on a nicer finish.
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Ill go get some brass wire wheels. I was able to get it to have a little shine by cleaning with a brass hand brush.
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Just curious : how did you unbolt the Oilpump ; just by unscrewing the 2 fixing M8 bolts and then pull down? cannot find the procedure in the BBB ...
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Yes, you can just pull the oil pump out. Twisting it back and fourth helps, as you are pulling downward.
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Thanks Joe
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Yes I confirm thats basically what i did. it looked as if it was on there solid but with some moving it about some Wd40 and some light taps it came out nice.
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Need help findining out where i took out the grub screw from while dismanteling engine. i think it goes somwhere on the front but cant remember for the life of me. see picture.h
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i think its a 4 mm allen key. total outside diamiter around 10mm
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I think that's an oil galley plug - probably inside the chain case or at the back of the engine.
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Yes, a bad time to make this discovery. I think Dan is correct, an oil gallery plug. It is important. One goes behind the large chain sprocket on the front of the engine and two go on the rear of the block. If one of the rear two are left out, you will have a major external oil leak and no oil pressure. Not sure how critical the front one is. I suspect you may have a huge internal oil leak and no oil pressure. Chuck Taylor has some recent experience with the front plug. Chuck are you reading this?
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the one behind this hole would be not too bad..
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Ive figured out where it goes but it makes no sense to me. (see two pictures attached).
One picture shows a banjo fitting to a plastic pipe that attaches to the top of the Nut that goes over the pressure relief value.
the other picture shows the plug going into the cap that covers the pressure relief valve.
I think the original setup was the plastic pipe attached to the cap/bolt that covers the pressure relief valve but someone had pluged it for some reason.
Any of this makes sense?
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No, not really. The oil pressure relief valve goes into the end of one of the oil galleys so that it will dump oil pressure over about 90 PSI. You can exceed that during cold starts in the winter.
I think there are two galley plugs of the same size at the back of the block and one of a smaller size at the front inside the chain case. The parts you refer to are part of the fuel tank venting system on late 280SL's where a plastic line runs from the overflow tank to a banjo fitting on the front of the block.
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Ok So i am now 99% sure it belongs to the plug hole behind the auxiliary sprocket. I now recall removing it during dis-assembly and putting it back (or thought I was putting it back into the same hole) but in fact put it onto the nut that is used for the gas tank ventilation that Dr Benz mentioned. So tomorrow ill take the distributor hosing off and hopefully can install it through one of the holes in the Sprocket gear.
On the bright side at least i found this out now instead of this weekend which will likely be my first fire-up. Ill confirm tomorrow if this is the case.
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Originally, a banjo type fitting was used on the vent line. It is a much fine thread than the gallery plug.
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I notice there were two gallery plugs, when just behind the Auxilary gear and on larger one down the a few inches from the smaller one. Managed to get it on but took all day. had to take the timing chain off and remove sprocket. but its back on now. I had also removed the injection pump and will re install that tomorrow. At least my brother did all the freeing up of the brake calipers and install the bench bled brake master cylinder. So as soon as pads arrive the brakes will be all squared away. this then will leave rebuild of fuel pump and cleanout of tank. Getting very close to running this car for the first time in over 30+ years. Cant wait. After this will be paint which will be done in the Spring.
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So this weekend has been busy with putting the front Plug in the engine that I found after i put it all togther (thanks to everyones advice, on where it went it helped me locate the location)and installing Brake booster and master cylinder. Freeing up all brake calipers (waiting on pads). Installing the linkage bar on fire wall after fishing out the firewall nut that fell back behind the firewall. Cleaned up distrib and wiring , new points installed and gaped (NOTE: original spark plugs were way off specs, Re gapped originals and have a new set to install after using the old ones for initial startup.). See pic for where Iam at. Also removed old fuel pump for rebuild.
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just took the fuel pump apart. replaced brushes and cleaned it up. Now when putting the housing back (the one with the magnets in it) and looking at the nose of the shaft it spins clockwise when i power it up, the bottom plate also has an arrow pointing clockwise. am i correct in that when viewed from the nose of the shaft of the pump that it should rotate clockwise? i know that if the body of the housing with the magnets is 180 degrees off the pump willl spin backwards.
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Ok so I now have the engine running. its all put back together. I do have a problem with the head. it appears to have a small coolant leak. I thought it was from the head gasket but it appears to be occurring one of the manifold stud bolts around the middle of the head closer to the front. it is a very small leak. My question is do the manifold head bolts that fit into the head need to be sealed? do they go into any cooling passages?
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So I become full member today. My decision was based on all of the very helpful people on this site and the respectful advice and wealth of knowledge. I now have my engine rebuilt to the best of my abilities and deapth of wallet. (in a perfect world with unlimited time and money I would replace every part but not always feasible). The engine is running welll; Starts on first try and idles good but needs some fine tuning (some times pops in intake box). I just accessed the linkage tour and I am looking forward to carrying out the necessary adjustments. Its a well written piece and makes sense. I can already see that my linkage rod to the IP is too long and IP stop is not being used by the IP arm.
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Welcome Pinder and glad you see the benefit of membership.
Hope you enjoy the Pagoda World that is sent out every six months or so and a membership package should be your way soon. Now as a Full Member with access to the Pagoda Notes, there is lots to read on line there as well over the Xmas break.
Garry
Membership Administrator.
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Welcome to the "inner circle" Pindler! Could be the best money you ever spent.
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Welcome Pendler to the Pagoda SL Group Happy Holidays and success with the linkage adjustments, once done you will discover the old girl will run like a Swiss watch :) Joe is right on when he said "you will find it's the best money you ever spent" becoming a full member.
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ive done the linage adjustments. Car is idlling nicely. It does still pop in the intake box a bit. Ill do some more fuel adjustments when get the gas tank back in the car. right now i have a temporry gas tank hooked up from an old plastic gas can. Cant believe how easily a car this old starts up, its starts with first turn hot or cold.
The fuel injection pump in this car was totally locked up when i first got the car and I went through hoops to free up the pistons. it was stiff to turn at first but eventuall all the stuck pistons freeded up after lots of sea foam, carb cleaner, trans fluid , soaking the whole thing up to its neck in chem dip. I didnt know if it would run at all but was happy not to have it sent out for a rebuild. I think the internals are very durable.
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I replaced the waterpump with a new one today. I had ordered it from Amazon and it turned out to be the long nose. Mine had the short nose pump. Howver after removing the spacker between pully and pump and using shorter bolts i was able to use the long nose pump which happens to be readily available.
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Hi, Is the oil distribution tube-to the rocker arms-clean? all 12 holes(?) clear? If the project goes south, I have a good 280SE engine.
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I hope those are clear. I soaked that line in laquer thiner for 10 days and blow it out at 120 psi. so pretty sure its all clear,
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This link is for the engine running. Please comment on if its sounds how it should. this is a cold start idle was around 900.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG0iwdksPjk&feature=youtu.be
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Sound alright to me, although it's a bit hard to hear.
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Thanks for listening to it and the feedback.
Regards
Pinder
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Just for my own future reference I did a compression test (spark plugs removed) and the compression was 180 for each piston. This was a dry test.
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You're hired! 180 is just about optimal. Just my rough figuring, but I'd say each pound of compression is worth about 1 HP in a 280SL if everything is tuned and dialed in perfectly. 180 HP isn't bad at all. Good work young man!
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Thank you. that makes my day!