Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rbatt on March 25, 2015, 08:35:57
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Hello everyone
This is my first post and I am already asking for help! I have bought the car in the attached link and I wondered what I have failed to see through my haze of excitement? I live in the UK and the car is currently at the port awaiting shipping to England. I paid $29,000 for the car. How painful is this going to be for me??
http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com//1967-mercedes-benz-230sl--c-3933.htm
Many thanks
Robert
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Congratulations Robert, and welcome aboard.
The phrase that springs to mind is it's a "5 yard car" - as in from 5 yards it looks great. Unless you have pictures closer in, they have been very careful not to photograph it from closer than 5 yards... and it may be my monitor but the pictures look quite dark. Not sure what's going on with the panel in the seats but that's a question of originality rather than driveability.
However, we've all seen worse, far worse. Your first task is getting it MOT'd and I'd suggest you'd want to put some prep work into making sure you pass that - so brakes, fuel, rust (structural) and of course your headlights. Wherabouts in London are you?
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Thank you for your welcome James. I am in Knightsbridge, although the car is being shipped to Felixstowe and then having some MOT preparation work in Milton Keynes.
It is very useful having experienced owners looking at my car, so that I can plan ahead with a list of items that need addressing. For example, it is useful to knowthat the inserts in the seats may not be original. I don't actually like them but their possible originality was leading me to keeping them.
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Welcome to the group Robert, I second James’ comments.
Probably the first thing you need to do is have a good read of the Tech Manual and all the information that is in there will help you work out where to next. Your plan to get an experienced Pagoda mechanic to look it over is important. Who did it for you in the US? we have some very professional Pagoda restoration workshops and members here both in Los Angeles and also in/around London. Look at out Vendor lists in the Tech area and remember ask lots of questions.
Often doing things befor seeking some helpfull advice can be a costly experience, dont ask how I know but over time you will start to get a better appreciation.
Lots to learn, but enjoy the experience and remember, ask questions, there are no silly ones and lots pf members here to help.
Garry
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I was hoping to have all of the fluids/filters changed and new spark plugs, then to drive the car over the summer before starting a more detailed gradual restoration.
I wasn't able to get much info from the vendors (for example they don't know if the car has been converted to electronic ignition). I am hoping that eagle eyed members will be able to show me what 'might' need doing immediately.
I have a 6 week wait until the car arrives in England!
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Congratulations, and welcome on board!
Given current prices on the market, this seem to be a reasonable buy.
The car may have some rust issues judging by pictures of the undercarriage, but we've seen a lot worse.
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wonder if you could ask/pay Tom Collitt to go have a look before it leaves and give you something to think about before it arrives... or make the decision that critical things get done by Tom: knows the cars very well (do a search on his name or ask Garry for it: he and Tom did an epic cross-US journey in a small enclosed space a few years back). I'd hazard a guess that Tom's labour rates are cheaper then Milton Keynes... Any critical parts that might be needed MAY be cheaper there than here too and can be dropped in the boot
Once you have her in London, you'd do worse than taking it to Colin Ferns (stickandrudderman on here): he's in Richmond and about as local to you as you're likely to get
As for electronic ignition, can't tell... there's many a debate on here about it: those who advocate the original set-up, those with a Crane/Pertronix etc unit and those with a 123
edit: oh, and I love the green with those alloys. Really nice combo and hopefully she'll polish up a treat.I actually quite like the rubbing strip along the midline. Not seen that before (I don't think) but looks great
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wonder if you could ask/pay Tom Collitt to go have a look before it leaves and give you something to think about before it arrives... or make the decision that critical things get done by Tom: knows the cars very well (do a search on his name or ask Garry for it: he and Tom did an epic cross-US journey in a small enclosed space a few years back). I'd hazard a guess that Tom's labour rates are cheaper then Milton Keynes... Any critical parts that might be needed MAY be cheaper there than here too and can be dropped in the boot
That is great advise. I wonder how that might work given that it's at the port now. I will ask.
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Hi Robert,
Looks like a fun car. The three line description they use to describe your car is the same description they use to describe 2/3s of the cars on their website. 'Mechanically Sound' I'm still trying to figure that out... I'm sure it will be a fun car to sort out. My guess is that it will need a lot of new rubber bits.... subframe mounts, etc. just about every W113 I've ever seen come out of a long term storage situation, estate, etc. needs all of those things, none of that is too expensive though. $29,000 is about the price of admission these days.
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edit: oh, and I love the green with those alloys. Really nice combo and hopefully she'll polish up a treat.I actually quite like the rubbing strip along the midline. Not seen that before (I don't think) but looks great
That's funny. I had initially thought that both the alloys and the side rubbing strip would have to go for originality!
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Hello Robert, congratulations, and welcome to the Pagoda SL Group!
From what I can see for the price you paid I think you did okay. Time, however, will tell what work is ahead of you to make this car perfect and road worthy.
I just wanted to point out to you that there is a shop in the London area, if you need a professional eye to have a closer look then the 5 yards away look that has been mentioned I recommend you contact Colin and let him have a peek at it :)
here is his link ---> http://www.colinferns.com
All the best and happy motoring!
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Welcome. I hope your car works out well. I think Beverly hills is starting to crank out some reasonable deals oncluding yours. I just spotted this 230sl yesterday for 29k. Its has very heavy patina but to my eye looks like it has a very good body with minimal under body rust. The vast majority of it looks untempered with as well so it would probably make an excellent restoration candidate. All the panel gaps are also quite beautiful on this car which probably points to it never being involved with any major panel damage. I would say it looks much straighter than mine when I started. What do you guys think. http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com//1965-mercedes-benz-230sl--c-3988.htm
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With this and the other thread about the green Pagoda for sale in Toronto, it occurs to me that we could help out by developing not a buyer's kit describing what to look for, but a seller's kit of what information to offer if you are selling your Pagoda and want to persuade potential buyers that you are making an honest offer.
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Welcome. I hope your car works out well. I think Beverly hills is starting to crank out some reasonable deals oncluding yours. I just spotted this 230sl yesterday for 29k. Its has very heavy patina but to my eye looks like it has a very good body with minimal under body rust. The vast majority of it looks untempered with as well so it would probably make an excellent restoration candidate. All the panel gaps are also quite beautiful on this car which probably points to it never being involved with any major panel damage. I would say it looks much straighter than mine when I started. What do you guys think. http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com//1965-mercedes-benz-230sl--c-3988.htm
Andy
it's not been shipped yet... surely it's easier to ship it across the Pacific to you rather than through the canal to London. Won't take you long to give it the once over for Robert, will it? ;D
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Robert,
As for your question: How painful is this going to be for me??: while there is no good answer I take the risk of suggesting two options:
1. It will be twice as painful (time and costwise) as you may imagine;
2. It will be painful but manageable if you entrust the renovation to a good shop. I think that you for here some good advice and James L posted you to Colin already, which - given where you live - would allow you to participate actively in the renovation process.
Search this forum, get knowledgeable and enjoy every minute of first the renovation and riding your Pagoda later.
BTW by becoming a Full member you will be able to access resources that will make you a Pagoda pro in no time ;)
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I agree with the prior comments.
Make sure that Tom Colin inspects the car before it leaves calif. He is excellen,t Gary from Aus will verify this.
To be original change the wheels. They were only available on the last of production of the 280SL in late 1970 and 1971.
This was verified to me when I attended the 50th Anniversary in Germany in 2013.
Also look up NAJ in the members list. He is your best contact for the London area.
He has been around these SL's forever.
Good Luck.
Tom
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Thank you for your replies.
I haven't seen the car yet, although it is due to ship soon. I am starting to become more and more worried about the area of rust half way down the car on the driver's side (see images from link to my original post). I keep imagining my foot going through the floor just there!
Can you guys have a look at the panel fit and let me know what you notice? Many of the cars that I've seen seem to have some issues with the bonnet (hood) fit so I'm less worried about that than the panel fit elsewhere.
Many thanks
Robert
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There are several details that are incorrect, the one easy to fix is the modern radio. Woods seems to be in a poor condition too.
I don't think it is necessary to open up a list of those as your restorer will do it for you.
As for the rust, one obvious item that can be seen on the pictures is the lower rear body panel. The bubbles on the paint surface don't leave any doubt. Thankfully this part is easily available. BTW also are available all the undercarriage panels either from SLS or directly from the producer in Warsaw. Stick knows about him.
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Hi Robert,
I would say that these days 29K USD is indeed, as Panzer 82 so eloquently puts it, "admission price".
I'd be delighted to take a look at her when she arrives but I can already see that she won't be driving anywhere unless someone has blocked off the disconnected heater hose!
Colin
Take a look at my facebook page to see that I am indeed your best bet given your location.
https://www.facebook.com/colinfernsltdmercedes
(And thanks gents for the recommendations)
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Hey Rbat,
As you have bought the car and its in transit, it seems you are working yourself into a frenzy of worry when you cant do anything about it at the moment.
Sure, have stick lined up to check it out when it arrives but until then, kick back and revel in the fact that you now possess a great car ( in unknown condition) and have joined a group of people who hold an awesome amount of knowledge about your car and are only tool willingly to share it as they have a great sense of comradere with fellow owners.
cheers
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Thanks George. You are absolutely right, I have been starting to worry before the damn car has even left the States. Although, I have been having fun looking for possible parts on the net. I will have to be more patient.
I wonder if those seats could have possibly been original? I cannot imagine why someone would cut out the mid section of a tan seat and replace it with green. Are they leather btw? Or MBtex? The advert just mentions tan interior.
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I'd be delighted to take a look at her when she arrives but I can already see that she won't be driving anywhere unless someone has blocked off the disconnected heater hose!
Thanks Colin. I will definitely be coming to see you when the car arrives. The members on here obviously rate you highly.
I've looked at the photos and for the life of me I cannot see a disconnected hose. Please put me out of my misery and tell me where it is! That way I can also alert the importation firm.
I look forward to meeting you.
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Be patient, be patient,
One of the things you should do is get a data card from MB. That way you know what you are starting with. These come from MB Classic centre California and the contact is classicparts@mbusa.com You must provide your full chassis/vin number. Then throughly read through the tech manual on Data Cards so you understand the Card and what information it is giving you then again read the Tech Manual on the various areas so that you gain a good knowledge of these cars.
Meanwhile, I would not be buying any parts etc for the car until you have it in your possession and know what you are looking at and need. It is very easy to rush off and buy parts and find that you really dont need them. Even to the point of scrapping what may be original and replacing it with non original to your detriment.
Garry
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Hi Robert, I've circled the heater outlet pipe which has no hose connected, but should. Maybe someone bypassed the heater if it was leaking.
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if you look closely you can see that somebody added a hose thats running across the engine to bypass the heater.
I would not worry for transport.
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if you look closely you can see that somebody added a hose thats running across the engine to bypass the heater.
This is all very useful. Why would someone need to bypass the heater? Is this a common issue?
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Probably because the heater matrix is leaking.
You don't need to bother with the classic centre in the USA, I can get your data card for you.
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Probably because the heater matrix is leaking.
I don't know if this is true, but I've heard that the heater valve (controlling flow of hot coolant to the heater core or matrix) never completely shuts off, always allowing a small amount of flow. Thus in order to try and prevent every last bit of excess heat from entering the cabin area, I've seen several mods where people but a real shut off valve in line.
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I don't know if this is true, but I've heard that the heater valve (controlling flow of hot coolant to the heater core or matrix) never completely shuts off, always allowing a small amount of flow. Thus in order to try and prevent every last bit of excess heat from entering the cabin area, I've seen several mods where people but a real shut off valve in line.
My 230SL had a shut off valve on it, installed by the previous owner after his wife complained hot air would come into the cabin, even in the Summer time. Easy to remove and put back to original.
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I agree with the prior comments.
Make sure that Tom Colin inspects the car before it leaves calif. He is excellen,t Gary from Aus will verify this.
To be original change the wheels. They were only available on the last of production of the 280SL in late 1970 and 1971.
This was verified to me when I attended the 50th Anniversary in Germany in 2013.
Also look up NAJ in the members list. He is your best contact for the London area.
He has been around these SL's forever.
Good Luck.
Tom
Thanks for the recommendations Sandcrab and James (BTW, it's Tom Colitt, not Colin ;-) Unfortunately, I didn't see the thread in time to be of any use to the new owner. I've done several pre-purchase inspections at Beverly Hills Car club (they are nowhere near Bev. Hills) as well as Goodman Reed, Heritage Classics and a few others in the Southern California area. As one might expect from used car dealers, pictures are generally shot less to inform prospective buyers about the true condition of the car than to sell-the-car. I would say that I have saved a good number of people from buying cars that were "over-advertised" by doing a pre-purchase inspection of the car and simply providing them with very detailed pictures of the typical problem areas on the cars. Sometimes, I worry that these car dealers will eventually not let me inspect their cars anymore, but if the car is as advertised it will also show from the inspections that I perform. I try to find out exactly what the buyer is looking for and not to be too critical of every Pagoda I look at because I know that there are people who are simply looking for a decent car at a reasonable price without spending years searching for the right one. Recently a 280SL at Heritage Classics that I inspected for a buyer in New Jersey turned out to be exactly what he was looking for. Goodman Reed also often has nice cars, but they are still a car dealer...
Regards,
Tom Colitt
ClassicAutosLA
(323) 251-0987
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My 230SL had a shut off valve on it, installed by the previous owner after his wife complained hot air would come into the cabin, even in the Summer time. Easy to remove and put back to original.
Presumably you are referring to the wife being easy to remove and put back to original. That's what I'd do if my wife complained about hot air coming into a convertible car on a hot day!