Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: pablo_o2 on August 25, 2014, 17:43:34
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Can anyone help me with the partsnr of the front crankshaft seal and the inner protective crankshaft ring
After a better search I found both partsnrs
Ring: A1080310251
Seal: there seems to be 2 options
1/ 0109978947 no dustcover
2/ 0039970347 with dustcover (cannot find the right word here)
Which is best?
Thanks
Paul
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The sleeve is the correct number. I would always replace that with the seal because that is the ID sealing surface for your new seal. There are other posts about the best way to install to prevent oil from seeping between the sleeve and the crankshaft.
From what I understand, there are many seals for the front crankshaft. All have differenet designs such as a dust seal and also different sealing lip profiles. I know, because I design seals. As to which works best, there are two options. 1) based on design and 2) based on material.
The 0109978947 I believe is the new one from Mercedes. The seal lip should be brown where as the others are black. This seal does not have a dust cover. Not familiar with the 003... number. Any rate, the 010 brown colored seal should have FPM stamped on the part somewhere. That is a high temperature material similar to DuPont's Viton. Good stuff. The others are black and not sure what material they are - possibly Nitrile.
I cannot comment on designs because without testing each one, who knows. I chose my seal based on material and that was the FPM 010... seal. It has been on for several years and not a drop. I'm happy with that one.
Hope that helps.
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Great, we have a seal expert in our midst! I have often wondered:
do I seat the seal to the old depth so the seal material rides on the old seal track, or hold back a few thousandths for a newer serface?
apply silcone grease, break-in lube, motor oil, or nothing to the seal material, to the shaft?
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I ordered the brown one at the MB classic centre. I know you can buy ersatz as well
but I always go to MB first and if they haven't got the part anymore I go for the ersatz.
Regards
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I try to avoid generalities when it comes to seals because there so many kinds. Molded lip - no pressure (front crankshaft seal), compression (rear crank seal) and molded lip pressure seal (power steering pump) to name a few. Speeds, temperature and sealing media all play a part.
I would try to avoid putting a new seal lip on an old surface. You might be able to use a different installation depth, but be careful something else isn't effected.
In the case of the front crank seal, I used heavy grease between the wiper and seal lip. This keeps lube on the wiper lip as well as provides protection from dust. No other lube should be required other than a light film of oil on the OD of the sleeve for initial running. I did use a very thin film of Permatex #2 on the seal OD just to make sure it seals.
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I hesitated to start a new topic because it's nice to keep info in one place rather than looking everywhere.
I am putting in a new front crankshaft oil seal. I have read about everything I can but want to make sure of a couple of things. I have pulled out at least part of the old seal. It looks like it was a 2 piece seal. I have only pulled out the center part.
Looking at the new seal I have it appears to be a 1 piece. First of all I am assuming I can still use this one with my engine. I would need to pull out the other part of the seal left behind. Does it just get pulled straight out also? Someone mentioned that they loosened up the oil pan bolts around the seal to put a new seal in. Is that recommended?
Also I read that the sleeve tube can be turned around to present a new surface for the seal. Is that correct? it seems to make sense to me.
I don't see how to imbed pics in various parts of the text. I am also wondering why some of the posts do not have a reply button, are they too old? Thanks for any help.
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Yes the rest of the old seal needs to be removed from the engine to use the new seal you have. A couple of screwdrivers can be used to pry it out but be sure to protect the crankshaft with some tape or a rag. You could also use the sheet metal screw technique. I would not loosen the upper pan bolts as you could introduce a new oil leak in that area. The new seal should go in place with medium effort using a large socket to drive it in. The sleeve can be turned around if you can get it out without damage. You most likely will need to get channel locks on it to remove it.
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Thank you Tyler. I appreciate the help. I have a nice tool I picked up on Amazon that does a good job of pulling seals out.
Kevin
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Hello Kevin,
All seals were one piece when new, or at least assembled into one piece. Just pull everything out. Use a knife blade or some hard edge to knock the sharp corner off the outside of the opening so the new seal will install without getting cut by the square edge. Yes you can reverse the spacer ring. New ones are not too expensive. Use some sealer between the spacer ring and the crankshaft. Use grease between the two lips of the seal which are in contact with the spacer ring. Loosening up the oil pan could break its seal causing a leak. Sometimes, removing the spacer ring is difficult without the special factory tool. Be careful not to install the front counterweight on 180 degrees off. The dowels are slightly off set to prevent this, but if your not careful you can force it on wrong. Be extra careful to make sure the lips on the seal are in place on the spacer ring after installation, otherwise it can get pinched and damaged when the front counter weight is installed.
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Hi Joe,
Thank you very much for the reply. I think I read that you can install the sleeve after installing the seal. Seems like a good idea to me so the lips are pushed in the right direction.
It sure looks like the seal was made in 2 pieces. Maybe I'm wrong. But you can see the part that came out and the part still in the engine. I'll look at it tomorrow again.
Thanks for helping us all out.
Kevin
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Kevin, if you get stuck on getting the spacer ring out I do have the factory tool I could loan to you. I am in Ohio so it might take a bit to get to you.
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That's very kind of you. I'll let you know if I need it. I've made a few tools myself for various things that I will post and lend out also.
Thank you,
Kevin
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It sure looks like the seal was made in 2 pieces.
Kevin
The seals are two materials, but one part. The metal ring is embedded when the rubber material is molded. There should be rubber encasing the entire metal part. The job of the metal ring is to provide a hard press fit so the seal doesn't move in the cavity. Otherwise you would need some sort of retainer. That type of seal is super common in autos. Rear axle seals, front spindle grease seals, you name it.
I believe that orange/brown colored material is a high temp, high performance rubber. Much better than the old "black" seals that are ordinary oil resistant rubber.
I installed my front seal a few years back and doesn't leak or seep. I followed Joe's advice back then and worked like a charm.
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Thanks for the info Wallace.
Kevin