Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: thecarappraiser on October 06, 2013, 21:15:35
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Ok guys i would like some opinions on how this conversion affects the value of a 280sl. The car has been totalled by the insurance company so now we are trying to settle the claim.
First off the car is a 1970 280sl stick shift, a long time California car with same owner since 1978 with extensive service records
car is in decent driver condition, good paint, a few flaws inside, not rusty. probably a $45k to $50k car with the stock configuration.
car has now a 3.0 liter turbo diesel engine with a 5 speed stick shift. All mercedes parts and the conversion look remarkably stock, and its been very well done.
Now there are the purists who want everything original and anything deviating form stock is worthless, and there are others who it doesn't matter too much.
I certainly do not think the diesel conversion adds any value to a 280sl, (just because you spend the money converting, it doesnt mean its worth more) but i would think a 5 speed transmission does. I am looking for a fair market value of such a car if you were to sell the car on the open market in 2013.
So the question is if you had a two 280sl's parked next to each other, in identical condition, the stock car worth $50k how much less would the diesel conversion car be worth?
neil
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I'll take a stab at it; the main factor would be that there's going to be far fewer people interested in the car than in regular 280 SL (the term white elephant comes to mind). If you find someone who is looking for one, then great and the value may be close to the same as for a 'conventional' Pagoda in equal shape. But given you may have to wait and search for a very long time for such a person, I think the discount may have to be as much as $10,000, or the cost of converting back to stock, whichever is less. What might help a bit is if the diesel engine is really modern rather than 'also old' because that would actually add horsepower end torque, and a significant improvement in fuel economy, while being relatively silent.
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Personally, I think less than that.
Cees already summarized the different views pretty well.
But I think if the car is worth 50 K if stock then it will be worth 15 - 20 K less now - given the costs of converting it back to original.
Depends mainly what the potential buyer is willing to pay for it.
Interesting ... (because of less fuel consumption) - but not for me.
Achim
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Rule of thumb used to be - a modified car in excellent shape is worth the same as a restoration project. Now how much of a restoration project is up to you. I have seen modified cars being used as donors to build up a poor condition original car.
When I was helping look for a series 1 E type Jaguar several years back for a friend we had several choices in order of increasing values as follow:
1. very affordable: 1 was a stalled project , 1 was missing parts , 2 had various accident damage
2. still affordable: 1 was an amateur restoration / 1 was a modified car (ford engine) in excellent shape but cut up a bit, nothing an optimistic welder couldn't fix.
3. not affordable: We found an original condition barn find - seats trashed and interior mouldy and some rubber perished
4. Crazy pricing: True original car - well maintained and there was a recently restored car by a known restoration shop
My friend went for a stalled project where lots of the heavy lifting was already done because he could build an original car out of the parts and didn't need to worry about chasing down bodges that were completed to put an American Engine into a British Thoroughbred.
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I'd value it the same as a car that needs total restoration.
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unless you were selling it perhaps?
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Agree with Stick. This assumes the car can be returned to its original state.
RB6667
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It depends on the condition of the rest of the car. If the soft top is new, interior still nice, paint good and chrome is still bright, it's not going to be like a full restoration. If the mods changed the running gear or structural design of the car then it would be worth a lot less.
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IF the structural integrity of this car has been changed to accomidate the Diesel conversion then it is a Turd . No matter how clean it is it is still a Turd .
Turd prices vary in today's market , but probablly around 100 dollars a ton.
IF you could easily replace a 280SL/ 8 drivetrain back in it and be original then deduct that cost less the price of a used whatever diesel engine and trany it has .
Also consider the age of the car for instance take a 1940 model Mercury that has been modified (chopped ,chanelled, Vortek Engine etc.) ; it is worth much more than the original .
My ZWEI PFENNING
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The car has been totalled by the insurance company so now we are trying to settle the claim.
What was the damage that caused the insurance company to take that position? What have they offered?
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unless you were selling it perhaps?
Quite offensive.
Please don't confuse me with a car dealer.
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thanks for the input guys, the car has not been structurally hacked, its a very clean installation done a long time ago probably back in the 1980's, the car is a clean driver, not a show car. i should imagine its would have been quite fun to drive with the torque of the diesel, and apparently he got 40 mpg on the freeway ! i wish my 230sl could get above 10 mpg ;D the owner is going to buy the car back from the insurance company and repair it.
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Quite offensive.
Please don't confuse me with a car dealer.
No offense intended, when someone owns something they always see it differently and it has a greater value to them. The person who customized this car rightly or wrongly spent money making the car how he/she wanted it, just as some would change the colour or some would transplant the big v8 lumps we regularly see. The insurance company, if insured correctly, should pay out the cost of a decent car, which it is described as, with or without the additional/less value of the modifications.
Neil
Sorry, don't know how to do 'quotes'
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If one has this desire to change the original design (and that includes the engine) then so be it let him/her do it ... only one should NOT expect the modified car to be any longer a Classic and I'm sure the OP knows this very well.
I have an ///M3 and would never ever consider changing anything from STOCK permanently. I have a non STOCK set of summer wheels for that car, however, the stock set will always be part of it. If I sell that car it will be sold with the stock set of wheels.
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If the vehicle now carries a "salvage" title, it is likely worth far less than a vehicle that merely needs to be restored.
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Wow, this is a lot of comments on the negative side.
I have done the conversion myself, twice.
An extreme pride and joy in doing something that is out of the ordinary.
Look at the Ferrari’s. The infamous bread van 250GTO.
That was a modification. Did it change the value?
No it made it even more valuable as it is a one off.
So doing a conversion to a limited production run car is still holding the value.
The real issue is “how much will the buyer and seller agree on”
So no way can one say any modified car is a piece of junk or turd.
It’s the same as all of us are guilty of doing. Changing the spark plugs to a newer type or different tires.
If that is a bad thing, then we all are guilty.
Look at Cuba, there are so many cars that have mismatched drivetrains, simply because they want to keep them on the road longer.
Back to the regularly scheduled programming.