Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Paul99 on September 05, 2013, 19:59:17
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Just a thought. Recently I heard that you can't get pagoda headlight glasses without spending a lot of money. So if you have a USA LHd car don't you need to change the glass or the beam throw will be wrong. Or nasty black stickers on the glass?. I heard they are £1000 per glass?
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All correct.
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Just a thought. If you bring a USA car into the uk won't the lead lights be wrong and need the glass replaced? I heard you can't get the new glass unless you pay very silly money.
Won't the throw of the light be on the wrong side of the road. ..?.
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So if you don't change the glass it will be an mot failure and so not road legal!
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...or you put black stickers on the glass which, believe it or not, is permissible at MOT and how I passed it a few years ago. This year, a new lighting problem surfaced. I found out yesterday (from a particularly zealous MOT tester) that my rear lights are illegal. US cars with red rear indicators are illegal in the UK if built after 1 Sep 1965 (VOSA allow 6 months grace, which would take me to May '66, but I still fall short by a few months, which is frustrating). My car is a late '66 230 with red rear indicators, and this year the tester failed me for that reason. So, I now need to find a set of lenses with orange indicators. Given that the ones I've seen on the net (SLS, etc) retail new at about £450 each, that's another £1000 or so to throw into the already £2K pot if importing a US car to the UK, (assuming you want to change to Euro lights also). One can, of course, keep ones US style headlights, and just change the Hella H4 (I think) to a UK one. But the US lights are nearly as good looking as the Euro ones in my view.
....anyone got a set of early orange rear lights they're willing to part with? ::)
There's always something with the MOT. I've got 6 years without ever failing for red rear lights, then I meet this guy and he nails me.
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James. What a pain. I know that mot stations vary so much. I built a kit car and had to get the car sva.ed which is a kind of mega mot. I had so much trouble as the tester was able to make his views count as the rules are so specific .
Try to find a supportive mot tester! I managed it recently.
Good luck!
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James,
How about fitting Yellow bulbs in the rear indicators, instead of the clear ones, that may give an orange visible light when transmitted through the red lens.
I do not think the MOT demands that the glass is Orange, as there are plenty of modern cars with clear front and rear indicator lens.
Worth a try ?
Good luck
Paul
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How about fitting Yellow bulbs in the rear indicators, instead of the clear ones, that may give an orange visible light when transmitted through the red lens.
No, doesn't work. I have tried that (just for "scientific" reasons (curiosity)); it doesn't illuminate amber with a 25W yellow bulb but is still red.
James, my 2 cents here: try to find another more accessible MOT inspector.
Achim
(brokenallredtaillightcollector)
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Just a thought. Recently I heard that you can't get pagoda headlight glasses without spending a lot of money. So if you have a USA LHd car don't you need to change the glass or the beam throw will be wrong. Or nasty black stickers on the glass?. I heard they are £1000 per glass?
£1000 per glass? Isn't that a bit steep??? For a RHD car? ??? ::)
Payed € 35 for a NOS one a few years back. :D
Realised then that it was useless for a proper LHD car :o ::) and donated it for free to a very nice Group member here
(got a correct almost new LHD lens back from him later ... :D ;D)
Well...
I know that the LHD lenses are reproduced now (glass not polycarbonate) but I do not know whether the RHD lenses 1 305 630 0006 are also being reproduced. I once heard rumours that yes, but I am not sure.
I try to find out ...
Achim
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...or you put black stickers on the glass which, believe it or not, is permissible at MOT and how I passed it a few years ago. This year, a new lighting problem surfaced. I found out yesterday (from a particularly zealous MOT tester) that my rear lights are illegal. US cars with red rear indicators are illegal in the UK if built after 1 Sep 1965 (VOSA allow 6 months grace, which would take me to May '66, but I still fall short by a few months, which is frustrating). My car is a late '66 230 with red rear indicators, and this year the tester failed me for that reason. So, I now need to find a set of lenses with orange indicators. Given that the ones I've seen on the net (SLS, etc) retail new at about £450 each, that's another £1000 or so to throw into the already £2K pot if importing a US car to the UK, (assuming you want to change to Euro lights also). One can, of course, keep ones US style headlights, and just change the Hella H4 (I think) to a UK one. But the US lights are nearly as good looking as the Euro ones in my view.
....anyone got a set of early orange rear lights they're willing to part with? ::)
There's always something with the MOT. I've got 6 years without ever failing for red rear lights, then I meet this guy and he nails me.
James...if you end up going this route and have to switch out your rear solid red lenses, I may have a friend here interested in buying your originals. It probably pains you to know that most states here in the US have done away with any type of motor vehicle inspection at all! Budget cutbacks!
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£1000 per glass? Isn't that a bit steep??? For a RHD car? ??? ::)
Payed € 35 for a NOS one a few years back. :D
Realised then that it was useless for a proper LHD car :o ::) and donated it for free to a very nice Group member here
(got a correct almost new LHD lens back from him later ... :D ;D)
Well...
I know that the LHD lenses are reproduced now (glass not polycarbonate) but I do not know whether the RHD lenses 1 305 630 0006 are also being reproduced. I once heard rumours that yes, but I am not sure.
I try to find out ...
Achim
would be good to know what is avaliable. Recently some things are just getting silly prices. The bonnet pagoda merc badge is now around £150-£200 each up from £35, and i think i need a new wax stat which for a 230 is £900! Probably try to change the WRD to a 280 type as i am told they are still avaliable and a lot less cost. Some parts are getting rare i guess.
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I have a very limited stock of RHD lenses but they are not for retail sale. They are reserved for when my customers will need them.
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Just sayin'....
This whole MOT thing, headlight conversions, mph/km conversions in UK and Europe is absolutely, 100% bonkers-crazy on a 40+ year old car! Indefensible.
The world used to complain about all the US DOT safety requirements (n.b. much, but not all, of which has been standardized throughout the world now ;)) and the fact that we couldn't have H4 headlamps, and had to have bumper overriders and soft-chrome bits, not to mention emission controls...
However, today--probably in most if not all US states, you could bring in any 40 year car from Europe, regardless of headlights or whatever, register it; insure it; and drive it. If there are any state-mandated emissions testing as many states have, they'd be waived on a car this old...and I sincerely doubt if any state would care much about headlamps.
Just sayin'...
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Michael,
Yes, I sort of agree. Having lived and worked in the US, Germany, the UK etc, I can say that cars in Europe where there are mandatory tests are far, far safer than in the US with the result that driving here is far safer. I could honestly not believe the state of some of the cars I saw on the road whilst living there. Perhaps some states have tests, but clearly not all. Buying a used car is even more of a lottery than in the UK, and frankly the cost of getting a used car checked out probably costs far more than the MOT process. That was my experience, at least.
In the UK, probably wisely, there is an assumption that older cars are more likely to exhibit safety issues as they become worn out. However, there is a point where most crappy old cars are scrapped as uneconomical to repair. There is also a point where really old cars have survived because they are so well looked after, like ours. In the UK last year I think, they stopped requiring MOT tests forreally really old cars on the assumption that they are likely to be well looked after. The 113 isn't there, sadly. At least in the UK we don't pay road tax for cars built before 1973 - they are regarded as classic cars. In Germany the situation is better whereby they have a rolling period of - I think but am not certain - 20 years, which is a far better idea. So in Germany, I suppose, the 129 could one day become a classic, where as in the UK it cannot.
I suppose my point is that the government has to draw a line somewhere. For red rear lights, that line was in Sep 65. The general outcome, though, is safer roads, at least as far as the UK is concerned. Under the Believe it or not heading, the UK has the safest roads in the world I read a few months back. (by road deaths per capita).
But this lights thing is a colossal pain and expense.
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Recently some things are just getting silly prices. ... i think i need a new wax stat which for a 230 is £900! Probably try to change the WRD to a 280 type as i am told they are still avaliable and a lot less cost. Some parts are getting rare i guess.
There is a newly rebuilt fuel injection pump being offered on Ebay right now (not sure which country) for a 230 sl for €1,500, complete with thermostat. So that would seem like a good deal.
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Tough spot James. Once you fail an MOT for a specific reason, would that show in the record if you take it to a different inspector? Were '66 to '68 Pagodas sold in the UK originally equipped with amber lenses?
I would recommend keeping the all red lenses in the hope that the Ministry will come to it's senses one day. (okay, you can stop laughing now.) But original red lenses seem to be much more expensive than the later split color ones. The red lenses are bonded to your chrome frames so you will need the chrome and the amber lenses.
Regarding the looser rules here in the US, we have very active Historic Vehicle Associations and a couple of Congressmen who are car collectors. Plus, cars were a much more influential part of our culture for decades. That said, Florida started vehicle inspections in the late 1960s and discontinued them in the 1980s because, statistically, there was no difference in accident rates. No one on the pro-inspection side, including me, could prove that the inspections made driving safer.
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James,
If the orange bulbs in the rear will not work, how about a couple of additional (Tempory) indicators at the rear - - There are all sorts of small additional amber indicators available, the Vintage car boys often use motor cycle ones. That should see you passed MOT, then remove them and refit them for the next MOT, I am sure the Police have more to worry about than checking your rear indicators.
Good luck
Paul
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Went to Beaulieu autojumble yesterday, there was a 230 for sale. Lots wrong with it, plus
it had one orange rear light and one red one ??? Long MOT tho'
They were asking £54950 :o
Strange times.
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With one orange light I suppose you're okay if you only turn one way. I could try that one on the MOT guy.
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Ideally, you should also find a color-blind MoT guy or if not available, one with one eye
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That said, Florida started vehicle inspections in the late 1960s and discontinued them in the 1980s because, statistically, there was no difference in accident rates. No one on the pro-inspection side, including me, could prove that the inspections made driving safer.
I know that in Massachusetts, and in New York there were emissions tests for a while. That started in the 70's, when these "add-on" emissions things like air pumps, etc. could be bypassed. There were waivers when the repair was too expensive, but it did bring those out of tune into compliance. There were plenty of scams, too. Today of course, with all the computers and electronics, if a car is so out of tune as to create more emissions than it is supposed to, it runs like crap if at all. So, the testing is kind of a self-serving tax. Pennsylvania's rules required no visible rust holes. (The Bondo lobby ;)) Gee, I wish we had that here.
Did help people like Sun instruments though, who had to sell all that test gear!
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Still doing "safety" AND emissions testing in Massachusetts! >:(
$29.00 per car.
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No smog inspection required here in CA on gasoline powered automobiles older than 1975, all hybrids and electric vehicles, 1997 and older diesel powered trucks and all motorcycles. No "Safety" inspections required for all non commercial passenger vehicles. I do have to agree with James in that I have seen some cars on the road here that look they are held together with bailing wire and chewing gum and in order to stop you might have to stick your foot out the door and drag it on the ground. But at least no dirty air emissions though :D
John
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Went to Beaulieu autojumble yesterday, there was a 230 for sale. Lots wrong with it, plus
it had one orange rear light and one red one ??? Long MOT tho'
They were asking £54950 :o
Strange times.
I saw that car. Felt better about my car after seeing it. 55 k did seem a bit steep
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Ahh i am waiting for that moment ;D
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Amber lenses left and right:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Glas-fur-Rucklicht-Schlusleuchte-rechts-Mercedes-W113-280SL-Pagode-/400537165409?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item5d41e01e61
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Glas-fur-Rucklicht-Schlusleuchte-links-Mercedes-W113-280SL-Pagode-/400537165442?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item5d41e01e82