Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Hiram B on June 02, 2013, 05:02:19
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I have a 24,000 mile 1970 280SL that I have had detailed to show standards. The car is dark red brown and the majority of the undercarriage was refinished in an eggshell cream color. I have been told by many experts that this is correct and some are telling me that it should be the color of the body of the car. Any feedback would be appreciated!
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Hiram,
You will find more information by using the Search function ... here's one thread that addresses exactly what you are asking:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=4519.0
Also, if you are not familiar with this other website, it will also help. Look under past sales etc. to find originality photos.
http://www.motoringinvestments.com
It is generally understood that the majority of the undercarriage was not body color but some areas such as wheel-wells received body color.
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Thank you- Hiram
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Sorry if I chime in OZ, but the thread that you referred to suggests that MOST of the under body appeared with the color of the car body. The complete wheel wells, PLUS 40 to 50% of the floor pans as Vince suggests. I am even leaning more with what Benz Dr. and Naj said. However, if you also take Vince's post and say that the under body was 40-50% covered with body color, then consider that almost none of that 50% ended up inside the transmission tunnel or underneath where the gas tank goes. In that case 50% of the surface area of the under body had a pretty good coverage of body color paint and it would match up pretty much right how I would see it. I do agree that the paint would have been more on the east and west facing sides (out board) of the tiny hills and valleys that the coarse under coating creates, but those are the sides that are visible to to us under normal circumstances. Where there is a large obstruction, such as the the sheet metal surrounding the point where the emergency brake cable exits, you would find virtually no paint on the inboard side of that sheet metal. Overall, I'd say for most colors that the floor pans did have a very clear appearance of having body color on it. Of course then you also had the quick, sloppy coat of Black paint that was applied to "black out" the portion of the floor pan that would be visible to the eye, just below the Black, bolt-on rocker cover, in order to provide some continuity onto the first few inches of the floor pans. Hope this clears some things up. I've thoroughly studied many Pagodas that haven't had their floor pans re-painted, to get a good understanding of this, but I am open to hearing credible instances where this did not occur. We all know that the factory was not always 100% consistent.
Hiram,
It is generally understood that the majority of the undercarriage was not body color but some areas such as wheel-wells received body color.
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Tom,
Good to read you chiming in ... many here would appreciate more of that ... your knowledge is amazing. I think we are both saying the same thing but interpreting Vince's comment about the 40-50% differently. I read his note as saying you would expect 40-50% OVERSPRAY under the car and so the beige may show some pink (if the car were red). To me this does not mean that 40-50% of the under carriage would be painted solid body color ... but rather that the overspray etc would give a slight coverage over the undercoat making it appear pink and beige, vs perfectly beige or perfectly red.
see you soon,
Oz
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Oz,
your reading of Vince's comments makes complete sense.
Isn't this here a perfect visual display of what he was writing?
(http://www.motoringinvestments.com/images/ZC229/uc13.JPG)
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Hi Alfred and Oz
Yes, I do think we can somewhat agree and the picture below is a good representation of a floor pan that is original and what I see all the time, although it is on the light side of the range and still needs a forensic eye to evaluate. The area that shows the most red (or pink as you call it), aside from the full Red coverage in the wheel wells, is in the lower left corner of the picture. The rest is either dirty from 40 years of grime (most likely) or it has been painted over with Black paint from the factory. Keep in mind that the Red has not increased over the years, but that the Red that WAS on the under body was not sprayed on or intended to adhere well to the under body and although it was on there when the car left the factory a good portion would have been sand-blasted off in all this time. I've seen too many original Pagodas with a lot more paint coverage (not solid, but a decent coat that survived 40 years and my cleaning), that tells me that it is more likely that the paint coverage depicted below is at the very low end of the range of factory new coverage.
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Back to Brian's site and one of the recent "holy grail" (extremely original) cars...it seems that a lot more of this undercarriage is body colored...pics below... as compared to previous discussions being in the 40 - 50% or so range.
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My underbody is a dingy white from accumulated road grime while areas that were sprayed with undercoat have a "tannish" look. As Tom mentioned the areas behind the rockers and under the cabin are painted black but appear much more uniform then the picture posted by Alfred, which I imagine might be due to aggressive steam cleaning of that vehicle. I will be taking the car in to have a lube and oil change in a couple of weeks and I will try to get some photos while it is up on the lift.
John
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Yes. Kevin. I also noticed that the current pictures on their web-site confirm what I have been trying to explain. They also support what the previous pictures from their web-site were trying to disprove. That Pagodas only had generally had only received a minimal dusting of color. I even took a lot of heat at a recent high end Coucours, where I was judging, from the Classic Center, who showed me a clearly non-original/ repaired Pagoda as proof that these cars did not get much paint coverage on their under bodies.
But yet....The white car clearly looks quite different from the red/ pink ;-) car and the pictures confirm that a very original car, that has seen little wear, would have generally had a fairly substantial coverage of over spray on the under body. Maybe it is helpful for some to be able to prove both scenarios, depending on what conclusion is needed at the time... I'm only interested in figuring out the history and details of these cars and several years ago I had written a detailed article about how I believe these cars were painted at the factory and what parts were bolted on, plugged into or attached to the cars when they were painted, etc. Note also, that the Cosmoline and the blackened out areas below the rocker sills further obscure the white paint applied to the under body and that all this white paint shows up so strongly even after this car has obviously had a very thorough cleaning to its under body to remove years worth of road grime. Even that process would, if anything, remove some white paint that had been there at some point... I hope we can lay the subject to rest. I'm not trying to win an argument or be difficult. I am just a very detail oriented person. This is reflected in my restoration work and I really care and am interested in the past and future of these cars and so I am trying to stop misinformation from taking hold as fact....