Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: holilixe on April 06, 2013, 14:53:37
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Hi All:
I'm new to this forum and hope to be a owner soon. I've always admired the W113 but never thought I would be able to own one. I've been a casual reader of this forum for the past 3 months as I started my search. The information here has been incredibly helpful and I want to thank you all for the education. This would be my first vintage car, so although I'm excited, I'm also very apprehensive. Recently I found one for sale that may work and I hope to be an owner soon but it is located in Austin, TX and I'm in San Francisco, CA. I was wondering if any of you have any suggestions for a Pre-Purchase Inspection service I use. The seller says the car was restored 2 years ago and I need someone to help confirm the quality of the work and the possibility of potential issues. Thanks for your help
Hopeful,
Hubert
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Hubert,
Welcome. I would suggest that the most expedient thing to do in the first instance is to get the seller to send you a bunch of detailed photos (not "my car in sunset over looking the Grand Canyon" type pics, but ones that show clearly the engine bay, underside in detail, interior of the boot, the interior, dash, etc) and then post them here. Include as much history as you can and the price they're asking. Some of the ninjas here will be able to give you an idea as to whether it's worth pursuing further. Then look for someone to check out the car if deemed worth it.
Don't rush at buying your first car. There are goods ones out there and buying a crappy one cheaply could prove a costly mistake.
JH
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I am getting ready to move to the Austin area and had the occasion to speak with a 113 owner from Austin at a local car show here in Houston about possible shops where I might consider getting service for my Pagoda. His recommendation was Paul's Motorwerks where he has had satisfactory work done on several occasions on his 113. To be clear, I have not visited the location personally, but the Austin owner was very sincere about his reference.
You might visit their web site and call to see if they would provide a pre-purchase inspection.
www.pmwaustin.com
Good Luck!
Norm
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Hi James and Norm
Thanks so much for your suggestions and help. I have some pictures but I will definitely get more, I'm definitely lacking pictures of the engine and engine bay. I will also check out Paul's Motorwerks and see if he can help me out. It is definitely worth a try.
Thanks,
Hubert
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Sounds like good advice to me. In general, I like a staged approach, where you get -- if you can -- good, clear, well-lit photos area-by-area; under, around, inside and beneath, then informed evaluation here, based on that and any other information seller provides: history, service and repair documentation, original specs and such. If it seems it might be a car worth moving on, I think we have at least one experienced member in that area who might have time to help you with an in-person evaluation. And the referral to the local shop may prove very valuable; you can spend a hundred or three on a PPI and count it well spent whether the outcome is a buy or a pass. The cost of even several inspections must be considered bargain-priced due diligence compared to the situation where you find yourself having bought an expensive ticket -- say, 20 to 50 times that amount when you stop to count -- to a continuing series of further costly outlays. There are more than enough good, sound 113s out there; take your time. It's not unreasonable for these complex, half-century-old cars to need some work, but old hands tell me that there are also many pretty Pagodas to be had that hide deep, tragic and expensive problems under their very appealing looks.
They also say to buy the best example you can afford, which also seems to be very sound advise. All the best of luck with it.....in fact, make your own, yes?
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Here are some pictures...
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here are more pictures
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more pictures...
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Lat two pictures for now. Per Jame's suggestion, I'm asking for pictures of the engine and engine bay. Seller is asking $35K USD. I would love to know what you guys think.
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$35K Sounds fair to me IF inspection doesn't reveal issues.
Gus
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Lots of rust repairs made to the undercarriage with new floors and sheet metal welded in. I would proceed with caution. If you're in SF as I am, I would take your time and try to find a CA 280SL as they more often than not have the extent of rust or rust repairs as this car seems to have where cars from other parts of the country are more susceptible.
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To further Nate's point, I would ask for pictures of the wheel wells. Particularly the back side of the front wells where they meet the floor boards. Huge rust issues here.
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The pictures show a really nice car and 35 thousand US$ seem also a pretty decent amount, provided -as it was said elsewhere - that there are no major issues. As the seller says that the car underwent restoration 2 years ago, it would be also interesting to ask him a list of things that were done, as well as a list of things he is aware that they need to be fixed. This would/should be helpful for the inspection person, if you decide to get the process further. Quite interestingly, the pictures reveal that the seats' upholstery was not on the restoration list, as they seem worn out more than 2 years of intensive use would show. Likewise the seals (at least on the A pillar) seem not in good shape, although this is one of the easiest things to do, and not the most expensive.
BTW, is it a dealer or private sale?
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A nice complement of owner's manuals, etc..
I'd guess the seats were re-covered without any attention paid to the innards; and surely they're not different colors, so that it's just a photographic artifact I'm seeing?
A correctly installed exhaust system is welded at the joints where we see the clamps here; they're clamps which serve US muffler shops perfectly well. Some care about this more, others not so much.
The same photo(s) seem to show the whole of the underside painted in one go, and apparently recently. No crime in itself (other than to originality), but it raises the possibility that this car has been 'tarted up' for sale. Sure, everyone wants to clean things up, but fresh paint always raises the question as to what's under it. Nate's observation deserves serious and knowledgeable followup; could be that very good-quality renovations of rusted areas have been carried out .... or cobbled up. And then again, maybe you aspire to a car which has or has had very little or no rust in the first place.
Trunk/boot photos with newish paint and mat in place tell no tales at all; the steel in this area needs to be exposed to the camera, and hopefully from a closer and more vertical angle, as this is an area where ~ 95% of our cars rust, from just a little to quite a lot.
Though a good start, this camera needs to be closer, pushier, nosier in general. :)
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Hi All:
This car is being offered by a dealer and unfortunately, they do not have the details regarding the restoration. To be fair, he did disclose that the restoration is only on the exterior. The Interior is original. Given all the great feedback and advice, I have decided to pass on this car and wait for a rust free car. The risks associated with the rust issues seems too high to take. Thanks again for all your help and insight!
If anyone knows of a Dark Green 280SL for sale, please let me know!
Thanks,
Hubert
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Probably a wise decision. There is one of our Group's eminent members located in Austin, whose knowledge about Pagodas is unparalleled.
Since he selected not to take part in this thread, I take it as a negative sign, or at least as a mark of a diplomatic reserve...