Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: SilverSpear on March 22, 2013, 18:43:59
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Hey guys,
I am a member of another forum, a Japanese one since 2004.
One of the nicest threads we did, was one similar to this one. Hope it is elaborated and stickied and serves as a reference to all of us.
Since the Pagoda has three engine variations, I suggest we divide this thread into three partitions: 230SL , 250SL and 280SL. Are you guys up to it?
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Dear Dan, ;)
This is not an easy question. :o
There is no official list so far on what is interchangeable and what is not.
Basically all engines are more (230 SL, M127II totally ) or less (250 & 280 SL) unique to the Pagodas (the latter two engines have sedan siblings), at least for the engine mount arms, the tach drive and some more details.
Lots of tech parts like axle parts, brake and clutch parts, gearboxes, steering boxes, smaller stuff, lots of clips, hoses, clamps, doorlocks etc are interchangeable with the period sedans. Same holds true for the steering wheel and partly the rims (108 400 0002, 6J x 14H2 rim).
Basically everything else is unique to the Pagoda
as is
- any sheet metal parts, doors, hoods, etc.
- softtop, hardtop
- utmost of the interior, seats, doorpanels, handles, etc.
- most of the dashboard, instruments
- all outer chrome (I tend to say all ornamental stuff), weatherstrips
- headlights, taillights,
- exhaust
In summary,
it is better to have a spare part list for the Pagoda (the German fintail club is offering one for € 20.00) and look up the particular number of interest.
If it doesn't start with 113 but with 110, 108, partly with 111 or if it is one or the standard part numbers (norm part numbers like most screws, clamps, etc.) it is most likely a part not unique to the Pagoda.
Although MB passenger cars of that period are already designed by a modular construction system, I'd tend to say most of the parts you need for proper maintenance and rebuilt of our beloved SLs are more or less unique to the Pagoda.
Spark plugs, oil & air filters are of course not unique but more common also to other MB period cars. :D
Sorry please... :'(
Achim
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Hello Achim,
You are missing the point of this. I agree with you that it is extensive and all, and lots of parts are specific W113. but it will be a fun exercise and a quick reference.
We can start with the large items, and little by little we can target the smaller ones (ie: rubbers, gommets, etc...).
For example, a European specs W111 headlight shares the same main reflector as the Euro headlight Pagoda. Are you sure about the taillights? What about the back reflectors and covers?
What about the wiper motor? Auto trans cooler? etc...
Well it is up to you, but trust me it is nice.
In the other forum, I was able to confirm that the Subaru I own shares the same gearbox internals as the 1992 Nissan Pathfinder and Mazda MPV. ;D
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Interesting project. Do youknow that the factory has published an part interchange book? That may be a good place to start.
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Use the search - go to the search tab, type in "interchange" and limit the search to topics only. This was a string a number of years back and there is a very nice listing of the various parts and pieces that interchange from MB of the era.
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I downloaded this off of our site many years ago. Hope this helps!
Kudos to the original poster.
RB6667
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Interesting project. Do youknow that the factory has published an part interchange book? That may be a good place to start.
I downloaded this off of our site many years ago. Hope this helps!
Kudos to the original poster.
RB6667
Hello Joe, do you have this list? Is it different than the one posted by rb6667?
This list is not extensive in details, but does hold some good numbers.
P.S: Joe, will send you a PM within the next 24hrs.
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Steering wheel is big obvious
I believe 110, 111, 112...?
If anyone has definitive steering list and if 113 hub is needed?
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Hello SilverSpear,
Yes, It is an official Diamler-Benz publication like a dealer parts book.
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I have a copy of the Hollander Mercedes Benz Interchange list produced in 1982 by Hollander Company. It lists 1151 seperate components of which there do not seem to be many pagodas. This seems to be a way to get around only using Mercedes numbers.
check: http://hollanderinterchange.net/resources.php
For example Flywheel - 108 030 06 05
67-72 250 w/MT
68-72 250C w/MT
67-72 280s, 68-71 280SE / C & 68-71 280SL w/MT
67-72 280SE, 68-71 280SEL & 67-71 300SEL 2.8 liter 6 cyl w/MT
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I suspect Hollander covers some of the parts but not all.
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Is this the interchange book you were typing about Joe A?
MB 14049, this one is dated 1972, but I have a couple of supplements into Jan 1974
(hope this posting comes in the correct orientation...!)
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Is it a silly question to ask if most of us are familiar with how to use the EPC Search function to find all the "other" models using a particular part on our car? My experience is that the EPC has a marvelous "cross-reference" capability in its parts search function. I don't know how to use all the features, but I have been able to find parts on "other" models that are the same as the ones on our cars. Example: I concluded that if our cars have part numbers beginning with 108 or 110, then probably other models use them too, and maybe even parts beginning with 113. It took some experimentation to find the list of "all other" models using the same parts, but it was worth the effort.
There has been a discussion on this site about using an inexpensive 108 330 02 75 subframe mount kit instead of buying a really-really expensive Pagoda subframe mount kit (I don't remember the part number). Using the EPC search function, I was able to verify that the actual rubber mount part is the same part number in both kits and that the bolts and plates (which are reusable) are the only difference. I saved about $600 for the two subframe mounts. Some of the experts here already knew that and had posted it. That knowledge stimulated me to learn to use the EPC to verify the fact and maybe find other examples. It works, but there are a few "tricks" that have to be played to get the parts search to work, at least there were for me. I'm still learning.
But, I have a question about what is meant by "interchangeability" in this thread. I see two possibilities and my EPC comments above only apply to one of those possibilities.
1st Possible Interchangeability Definition: My EPC discussion was about finding other Mercedes models that use the "same part number" as is used on one of our Pagodas, whether a 230, 250, or 280. Finding a different model using the same part permits searching in different places and taking advantage of model-related pricing by vendors. It's like the 108 subframe mount kit example above.
2nd Possible Interchangeability Definition: My personal definition of an interchangable part, during my years in the U.S. auto industry, was a part with a different part number, perhaps even a different design, that would fit and perform the same or at least similar and acceptable function. An example is that on my Pagoda, when I bought it, it had one engine mount that was parallelogram shaped when viewed from above. I don't even know from which model it came. It was nothing like a Pagoda mount, but it had the same bolt hole spacing on the axle side, the same internal thread on the engine side and the same overall height. In other words, it fit and it worked. It did not, however, have a stop plate and buffer. I don't think the EPC search function can be made to find this kind of "interchangeable" part.
If everyone is familiar with using the EPC to find "other" models using the same part as the Pagoda, I apologize for the "obvious" posting. I'm a little isolated here in Québec and tend not to know whether others have learned what I have learned, since I don't have anyone to discuss these things with.
Tom Kizer
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Hello Tom,
The parallelogram style mount is for sedans of the era which had the same sub frames and the exact same mounting holes. In fact it is available in several different rubber densities depending on if it went into six or eight cylinder sedans. I suspect that the V-8 sedans used a different rubber density and is heavier duty.
So what is the difference? Well the W113 cars has the round mount with the "torque plate" below the mount. The torque plate is the limiter that resists the up-ward or down-ward forces of the engine on the motor mount during acceleration or de-acceleration. In other words, it keeps the engine from tearing the mount apart as it strains to lift or rotate during extreme acceleration or de-acceleration. It also keeps the engine from tearing the mounts, during driving, in the event the car is launched upward or bottoms-out. The torque plates are the limits to engine movement under exteme conditions. Most of the time the torque plates on these W113 cars are never called upon for service.
Later sedans of the era, had a torque limiting shock added to the front of the engine and the torque plates at the motor mounts were forever deleted. The new mount desigh was squarish with the same mounting holes and configurations of the original round mount. Now you know the rest of the story!
Yes the square mounts will work on the W113 cars and most likely will last longer. But there is no torque resistance so don't go racing or rallying with these mounts. Excessive upward movement of the engine could put a dent in your bonnet (hood). >:(