Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kayvan on March 07, 2013, 06:21:54
-
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kayvan007/MBClassicCenter?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGL9fXNqL2D2AE&feat=email#slideshow/5853433334211473986
I have spent days at the Mercedes-Benz Classic Center in Irvine, CA with Jeff the Service Manager. It is one of two factory owned restoration facilities run by the Daimler-Benz parent company.
They have done extensive engine, drive-line, and mechanical restoration work on my '68 250 SL.
Their work is first class and 100% factory original; like being on the factory assembly-line with Master Engineers.
I will post a separate slide show of my SL's earlier paint, chrome, interior, leather, canvas restoration which was completed on East Coast in '05-'07.
-
Checking the place out is on my list to do one of these days.
Care to share what they are charging for the work you are having done?
-
Can share in PM....
Suffice to say its by the book-hour ($125/hr), and they came in $1000+ under-budget on a recent extensive work-order and are methodical in saving/bagging parts you can sell / recycle. They will be first to say: "lets save this part or you may find a good used part for this"
Work is literally best I have seen in 20yrs on my SL.
Note: they dont just accept cars randomly for generic routine service and have waiting lists and turn down basket case budget restoration requests all day long.
However, if you are committed to your car and outline what you want to have done (even over years) they will establish a realtionship with you and treat you like their multi-Gullwing collectors.
And all parts are 100% M-B...down to tiny clamp on rubber funnel on fuel vapor evapaorator oulet.
If you ever have had a sub-system thats just not right and many have attempted to fix and its still not right....spend the $1000-2000 and have the car trucked over to them round-trip. For example, I did a rountrip on my fuel-jection pump 3 times (yes 3) in 2003-5 with an east coast vendor that was an example of not dealing with experts (although highly recommended up & down here and elsewhere).
Having your 113 set like a Swiss watch is priceless.They are by the mm spec and tolerances are with 0.1% of new.
Also, in my opinion having their documented restoration work done to your 113 adds immensely to its value.
-
I was always under the impression that only Bosch rebuilds their pumps and they're not done by MB. MB dealers, and the CC is one of them, are NOT allowed to use anything but MB original parts. I'm more than surprised they would offer you a used part; seems out of the realm but maybe they rebuild this stuff before they do anything wih it.
All removed parts are supposed to be available for customer inspection or returned to you as they still belong to to you. So, that's not really as big deal as it sounds.
-
That is a pretty big hourly rate. I know of one restoration shop in LA that i have used that is considered one of the best for Pagodas, Tom Collit's that will not be any where near that. Or maybe he wishes it is. ;D
-
.... MB dealers, and the CC is one of them, are NOT allowed to use anything but MB original parts. ...
Hi Dan,
it is very difficult to get to the bottom of this but the CC may not be a MB dealer. There are credible reports that they are under the marketing department of MBUSA and if this is correct then the restoration shop can do what they want since they have to obey a different master.
They certainly do compete vigorously with MB dealers here in SoCal and I am not sure how much they love each other. ;)
-
Used part was chrome in excellent condition v. spending 3x for new.
-
Used part was chrome in excellent condition v. spending 3x for new.
OK, so it was a used part but it was their used part. :)
From what I can tell, the CC is a seperate part of DBAG and is owned by them. My reports state that it was the most profitable division they had last year. I have no way to verify this but it seems fairly plausible. I would think that $125.00 per hour is about average at most MB dealerships axcross NA.
The idea that only MB can fix your old car or that only an old German mechanic can do it right is very sillyhinking in my book. After all, do you take your Kia to some old Korean mechanic?
-
My reports state that it was the most profitable division they had last year. I have no way to verify this but it seems fairly plausible.
How could that possibly be plausible? In the USA, there's one building, not much more service work than is being done (just simply from the size of the facility; anyone ever see the service area at Mercedes-Benz of Anaheim? f/k/a Caliber Motors? More than 70 service bays in 3 buildings.) at a large dealership, and parts for cars 25+ years old. I do know that Daimler AG is a public traded corporation, and most of the financial reporting is reasonably transparent according to law. They are so huge, and sell so many cars, trucks, buses (more than 90,000 in February alone)--and finance it all at every step of the way that to think the Classic Center is the most profitable division at DBAG isn't plausible at all. If it were it would be broken out in a separate division or something. I don't have an annual report, and think it is buried somewhere merely because the revenues and profits (relative to other operations) are pretty small...
http://www.trefis.com/company?hm=DAI.trefis#
Are there old Korean mechanics?? ;)
-
I have counted 10+ Gullwings / Roadsters undergoing ground up restorations in a 3mo period...each was investment grade / rare: eg, rudge wheels / competition axles / alloy / Lavender metallic / Strawberry metallic or documented 1 owner barn-finds
Est. $500K per restoration (yes that # is right to penny)
And sales of $1 million per car and you have largest profit margins in industry.
Its like Farrari Classiche Center....elite collectors will pay $$$ for Factory OEM quality. Comparing them to regional marque experts is apples to oranges.
Maybe Paul Russell or Kienle Automobiltechnik are equivalents.
That red 280 SL in my pics in their Gallery sold for $180K and others SLs are being quoted $200+K to restore
-
Well, if the CC restoration would be really the panacea that you describe why do very serious collectors send their Gullwings to the Hjeltnes Company in Escondido,CA or Paul Russell in Essex, MA if they want to win a trophy at Pebble Beach?
Has a CC restored car won anything significant at Pebble Beach?
-
Yes.
-
What?
-
Sounds like deal, our dealer here in Ohio, charges 135.00 hr. Of coarse they call me in to work on the 300SLs from time to time when they get them in. ;D
-
Sounds like deal, our dealer here in Ohio, charges 135.00 hr. Of coarse they call me in to work on the 300SLs from time to time when they get them in. ;D
Yeah, but I bet you don't see that much.
-
I have counted 10+ Gullwings / Roadsters undergoing ground up restorations in a 3mo period...each was investment grade / rare: eg, rudge wheels / competition axles / alloy / Lavender metallic / Strawberry metallic or documented 1 owner barn-finds
Est. $500K per restoration (yes that # is right to penny)
And sales of $1 million per car and you have largest profit margins in industry.
Its like Farrari Classiche Center....elite collectors will pay $$$ for Factory OEM quality. Comparing them to regional marque experts is apples to oranges.
Maybe Paul Russell or Kienle Automobiltechnik are equivalents.
That red 280 SL in my pics in their Gallery sold for $180K and others SLs are being quoted $200+K to restore
-
I have counted 10+ Gullwings / Roadsters undergoing ground up restorations in a 3mo period...each was investment grade / rare: eg, rudge wheels / competition axles / alloy / Lavender metallic / Strawberry metallic or documented 1 owner barn-finds
Est. $500K per restoration (yes that # is right to penny)
And sales of $1 million per car and you have largest profit margins in industry.
Its like Farrari Classiche Center....elite collectors will pay $$$ for Factory OEM quality. Comparing them to regional marque experts is apples to oranges.
Maybe Paul Russell or Kienle Automobiltechnik are equivalents.
That red 280 SL in my pics in their Gallery sold for $180K and others SLs are being quoted $200+K to restore
I wasn't aware the red 280 sold. If they really did get 180K for it, then they made a piss pile of money on it. That car was only partialy restored - it looked great but the costs of a full restoration were not put into it. Which is why the place is so........ proffitable. I'n not saying their bad people or anything, just pointing out a few things........
You can buy a 113 nut bolt and washer restoration from the guy in the Dominian Republic for about 125K or less. It wiill more than match or exceed the one at the CC.
I only saw pictures of the CC car while I was actually in the DR for a week and saw the work being done at this shop. The main difference in price is mostly due to labor rates - the quality is certainly there.
-
I need to put my labour rates up!
Tangentially:
Yesterday I started to construct a spread sheet showing the break down of 113 restoration costs. It assumes worst case scenario and I am using a discounted labour rate for bulk purchases (which is what I consider this to be) the estimate so far is coming to £87000 plus taxes. Naturally this doesn't include the cost of the car itself. This is only the first draft.
-
That red 280 SL in my pics in their Gallery sold for $180K and others SLs are being quoted $200+K to restore
Since it's now not all that unusual for the finer W113s to sell for more than $100K I wonder why Hagerty has $77K as their top valuation?
-
Since it's now not all that unusual for the finer W113s to sell for more than $100K I wonder why Hagerty has $77K as their top valuation?
They could be using an average price to come up with that. This isn`t the same as auction results or other publications that state actual sale prices of privately sold cars.
Hagerty is giving you the average sale price for insurance value. It would seem that they need to look at these quicky changing figures and change theirs a bit. The 113 is about to take off and get a lot more valueable - better get one now while they`re still resonable in price.
-
Updated Pics via Picassa...what a difference
Lets u move, organize, sort pics v. other hosting sites that have stripped all functionality
-
Visited again recently....Service Supervisor spent 2hrs reviewing car
-agreed to add OEM right side mirror; on data card
-refurb drive shaft & replace flex disc & rubber center support
-wood kit
-OK'd mounting ordered tires
Couldn't be happier with progress