Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: zoegrlh on January 08, 2013, 18:06:19
-
Has anyone used the ZDDP oil additive for their M130 engines? It is my understanding that our older engines need this ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate, containing Zinc and Phosphorus) to assure that there is no additional wear to metal parts caused by the new engine oil formulas. Since 1990, the EPA stopped oil companies from adding ZDDP to engine oils produced for US market. There are two products of ZDDP additive that I know, ZDDP Plus, and Rislone Treatment. It is suggested that every oil change you add the additive in with your crankcase. I know the hot rodders use ZDDP religiously. Any comments on this?
Thanks,
Bob
-
Hi Bob, a search in the archives will bring up discussions about this. I am using ZPPD myself with synthetic oil in 10W40 grade, in line with what I found most credible posts to agree on in here. You will get both points of view, and you ultimately decide what you will do. Some do not use the ZPPD additive but use diesel oil with high zinc contents, others use normal oil that they change frequently.
My take is that if the engine was designed in a time where the standard was for high zinc content in motor oils, then we should use that if we have hopes of replicating the same performance and durability. Expect more cam wear than usual with products designed for modern engines with less friction.
Jerome
-
Hi Guys
I think I have a better solution for our engines that avoids having to use additives.
I did quite a bit of research on motor oils and settled on Mobil 1 15W50. It has all the advantages of a fully synthetic oil plus a good zinc content of 1200 - 1300ppm
Regards
Franjo
-
I remember also reading about Mobil 1. Did they not change their "recipe"? Also, is the product standardized in all markets?
JP
-
For Mobil1, are you talking about 15W50 Racing that looks like the one below?
By the way, I could not find the ZDDP additive's dealer in Europe. There is a link pointing to a website in Denmark, but the site is in Danish and does not seem to have anything about ZDDP :'( Do you know of any alternative in Europe (another dealer or similar product?)
In the case of my Pagoda I used Castrol High Mileage, but I am renovating the engine right now and am about to put new oil. Any advice is more tham welcome :)
-
I use a zinc additive marketed by Comp Cams. Use a full bottle after a rebuild and about a half bottle at every oil change.
If you can't find oil with zinc additive, then try to find an oil that has an API rating for MS. This won't be as good as having a proper zinc level in your oil but it's better than using oils that are blended for low friction applications.
-
I thought this had been discussed quite recently in another thread...
Anyway, I don't think that anybody means Mobil 1 Racing: that is not recommended for street use, per the Mobil 1 guide.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Racing_Oils.aspx
Read where it says "not recommended." The current product for our older engines, if you want to use Mobil 1 Synthetic, would be their 15W-50:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_15W-50.aspx
Data on additive levels is here:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
If you are not in the USA, and this interests you, better check local markets: Jkalplus1 brings up the point about whether or not the formulations are the same across different markets. I don't know.
-
After looking at their product guide I would agree that their 15 W 40 is the one to use.
At 1300 PPM zinc additive, you should be fine with that.
-
I use Valvolene Racing VR1 (20/50 Mineral Version), as this seems
similar to the original oils, and has 1300 ppm of ZDDP.
The following FAQ is interesting.
http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/
http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/
Paul
-
I read on the other thread that Shell Rotela Diesel 15/40 was a good oil to use.
Is that still good?
Frank
-
Just to clarify, as per Michael's response, do not use the Mobil 1 Racing version. The Mobil 1 15W50 is the oil to use.
Not sure whether the product is standardised globally, but I could not source it from any of the normal retail outlets here is Australia. So for I buy mine from a guy who imports it from the USA (he also stocks Redline and other brands).
So the version I get has the properties (including zinc content of 1300ppm) as per the datasheet link in Michael's response.
For us Aussies, have a look at the www.gllubricants.com website. The prices for Mobil 1 range are far cheaper than what we pay at SuperCheapAuto, Repco, etc. Oil is delievered in original, tamper-proof packaging. I am in no way affiliated with the seller, but just wanted to let the down under Pagoda community know where to buy suitable oil for our cars at very reasonable prices.
-
The Mobil 1 15W50 oil in 4.7 liter is available at Walmart in the US for $25.00 . Go figure!
-
The Mobil 1 15W50 oil in 4.7 liter is available at Walmart in the US for $25.00 . Go figure!
Wow. I only found it this past summer at one place, only in quarts, and it was $8 per. That was Autozone. And, it was considerably more costly than other Mobil1 formulations for sale at Autozone.
I might have to violate my own rule and walk into a Walmart just to see if its true... ;)
-
You guys have it good.
For us aussies, walking into the equivalent of an AutoZone or Walmart, I will pay $29 for 1 litre of Mobil 1 0-40W (for the Cayenne). However, I can buy it from the importer I named above, and get 12 litres for $134..........go figure
-
The Star magazine (by MBUSA; vol. 57, #5, Sept.-Oct. 2012) has a pretty thorough article on this subject on p. 54, entitled "The Weighty Subject of Oil for Old cars", by Richard Simonds under the contents heading, "Classic Tech".
It seemed to me to be a very good article, and one topic heading ("Reading the Labels") is a big help in understanding the API codes, as well as providing background and context for judgements on additives in general and ZDDP specifically.
The entire three-page article is well worth a read, I think, and had me underlining passages as if in a textbook. I figure this article paid for at least a couple of years' membership/subscription dues to MBUSA.
[All that said, I have a nagging feeling that there's a one-letter typo nearing the end of the first paragraph on p. 55. It's not the sort of thing a spell-check program would catch but is of significant relevance if it is indeed an error. Whaddayouthink?]
Michael,
You're conversant with the editorial staff; is there something here that merits making inquiry of Mr. Simonds? Or perhaps Ms. Hislop, Copy Editor, with a courtesy read-in for the author? Vice versa? [In any event, our appreciation for the articles' considerable overall value should surely be emphasized.]
-
Michael, I agree as I hate Walmart but sometimes I have to rush in and out for items like engine oil.
-
The Star magazine (by MBUSA; vol. 57, #5, Sept.-Oct. 2012) has a pretty thorough article on this subject on p. 54, entitled "The Weighty Subject of Oil for Old cars", by Richard Simonds under the contents heading, "Classic Tech".
http://www.mbca.org/star-article/september-october-2012/weighty-subject-oil-our-old-cars
If that link does not work, let me know: it works for me (but I'm an MBCA member)
-
Michael
the link gets you to the front page with the title of the article. It gently says that to read the article, please join the Club…..
Maybe the traditional "copy and paste" would work :)
-
speaking of oils suitable for our cars, do you have any experience with Castrol Classic XL 20w50?
It is advertised as the ultimate oil for cars such as our Pagodas, but when I looked at the characteristics, zinc was quite low and there is no mention of potassium at all. The only selling argument at this point I can see is the beautiful vintage-like can... :) But maybe there are some hidden goodies you are aware of?
Your comets are welcome