Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: KevinC on November 05, 2012, 23:15:38
-
Don't know if this been posted earlier....I am not familar with the buyer or repair shop but this should stand as a "Public Service Announcement"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hCbWIS9Ad8&feature=youtu.be
-
Wow I have never seen this kind of rust on a Pagoda, it's usually on the floor boards or rocker panels.
-
OMG! What a bunch of issues here. I had heard about the cross member rust issues, but had not ever seen the one where the rear suspension mounts go the body. Wow, lots of checks(or one big one) are destined to be written here if the person is going to be serious about repairs.
-
Any car that is from the north east US and eastern Canada will look like this if the car was driven in the winter. Too many areas in the underbody for road salt to accumulate. My car was sold in Toronto Ontario new but the original owner parked it inside every winter otherwise I would never purchase a car from this area.
-
Sadly, this kind of rot comes standard with UK cars, a friend has 7 examples undergoing restoration at the moment and the 5 from the UK are all completely rotten, inner front wings (fenders), boot floor , sills (rockers), front cross members, rear of front wheel arches, floor sections and rear suspension members.
The cars all have to be mounted on a spit/rotary jig and have new sections welded in. This is a very time consuming and expensive job as to do it properly involves totally stripping the car of all mechanical and trim components and leaving just the body.
The truly terrifying thing is that in the main the cars looked at least 8/10 cosmetically and one particular car a first year 250SL drove and handled beautifully and appeared to be a true survivor. When it was closely examined it was in a terrible state underneath. It seems that all UK cars that have not had a full restoration should potentially be considered as massive restoration projects - Of course there will be exceptions and carefully preserved and cosseted examples do exist but in my experience the vast majority of even dealer sold sub £30 K cars over here are in need of serious work to make the underside match what the car appears to be on the outside. These issues are not merely cosmetic but safety related. The problem is that everybody on here probably knows this already but people attracted by recent publicity probably do not ! I have never known of another car that can look so good and drive so well whilst being riddled with structural rot !
If you have the time it may pay in the long run to buy a "basket case" with good trim and cosmetics with the intention of tearing it down and repairing it properly rather than buying an unknown "restored" example from an unscrupulous dealer. Of course there are reputable dealers and repairers as well as private sellers but these cars, perhaps more than any other, NEED to be inspected prior to purchase by an expert and on a car lift.
My 230 cost me £14K but everything was wrong and I spent a further £30K over 2 years having it properly structurally, mechanically and cosmetically rebuilt and or restored. I may be able to sell it for what it cost me to do (not that I want to) and have been offered £50K for the car at two different shows but the main thing is I know it is right and safe and will stand the test of time, I have a full photographic record of the restoration and the fact that I project managed the whole thing gives me great peace of mind. I have met several unfortunate people who have bought cosmetically attractive cars for £30K which need the same amount spending on them as mine did which is why I bought a known "knacker" at the outset !
Steven.
-
Nothing I haven't seen before, in more ways than one.
-
nevertheless, this is an interesting video. Obviously, I expect that there is a happy ending, in the style: …and the owner has tons of bucks and will have implemented all then recommendations, so that in a few month he will drive a spotless, renovated lady in white, called Pagoda. And they lived happy, together ever since…. Oooops, I forgot to add: and the happy owner became an active member of Pagoda SL Group :D wouldn't it be nice? ;D
-
Thanks Kevin,
Damn good video, more of this would be great.
We are not all experts in this field.
I speak for myself of course ;)
( Tires have dates on them! :-[ These tires are more then 5 years old, they should be changed! :-[ )
-
The following information was mentioned beneath the video... Thank goodness!...
"Customer had purchased this car online from a used car dealer with no prepurchase inspection. Customer had no knowledge car was this badly rusted until we showed him, Fortunately, he was able to return the car to the used car dealer for a full refund. The use of this video helped document and show where the rust was to the dealer"
-
Wow! A full refund. How fortunate for the buyer...really dodged a bullet. The used car dealer must stand behind what he sells or have some kind of 30 day return policy.
-
Frankly, aside from the video showing a lot of rust I don't believe much of it. I've never seen a 113 or 108 loose a trailing arm. A 190SL? Yeah, they can fall out and drag on the ground but a 113 is designed differently.
Change your tires every 5 years? Those 8 year old tires probably sat outside in the sun or the car sat and was never driven.
I don't buy most of the BS that guy was laying down.
-
My primary reason for posting was to demonstrate 1) how a vehicle that seems nice topside could be a train-wreck on the underside and 2) the lengths some inviduals might go to to cover up either rust or poor workmanship.
-
My primary reason for posting was to demonstrate 1) how a vehicle that seems nice topside could be a train-wreck on the underside and 2) the lengths some inviduals might go to to cover up either rust or poor workmanship.
None of that is in question. The video was made by a place that is also trying to promote their operation. The car is rusty but not any worse than most rusty cars. I see no evidence that the rust was covered up or hidden in any way. The repairs were poorly done but it was clear they had been done some time ago and the seller wasn't trying to hide anything with undercoating. Nothing was changed under the car after those repairs were completed.
I'm only questioning some of the info from the shop and not that car was rusty. I also question the buyer getting his money back. In other words, I think there's some motive going on here.
I could be wrong but it looks that way.
-
Yes, we know these cars rust really well !
I doubt that the "U Tube" vehicle would be issued with an "MOT" (Ministry of Transport Road Worthy Test) here in the UK.
If a car is regularly used, it must undergo an annual MOT test here, and its road worthyness history should be is quite well documented
in the UK, even the failure reasons are documented, and then sometimes "lost" by previous owners.
When I was researching to buy a Pagoda earlier this year, I saw lots of rusty undersides, some cars had failed the MOT
3 times in 4 months before being repaired to a standard to pass, whilst others had an almost new MOT certificate but no failure history, the latter would make me more suspicious with our cars.
When buying it is essential to inspect not only the car, but also the relevent paperwork.
I like to use the car for 9 months of the year, and then do any remedial work or improvements in the winter months.
Keep well
Paul
-
We only have a safety check when the vehical changes ownership and you want to get a new license for it. The car can change hands many times as an '' unfit '' vehical as there are people willing to buy or sell.
That thing would never pass a safety check.
-
"I'm going to recommend" was a phrase used all too often in the video. Run don't walk from those repairs!
-
It's rare for me to see a pagoda that's NOT in a similar condition. As Dan says the videographer has his own agenda; all garages slate each others work unfortunately.
However, I disagree that there's been no attempt to mask the severity of the rust. Some of that underseal looks pretty fresh to me and those rivets are a dead give-away.
-
I'm going to watch it again. Clearly there was a weak attempt to patch the frame in the past. No way you could hide all of that with a bit of undercoating.
My point, if there even is one, is that the guy telling the story is right in that car isn't safe to drive. Aside from the tires I'm not sure I agree with everything he says.
a) tires should be changed every 5 years
b) the trailing arm is ready to fall out of the car
Niether of these these statements are true in all cases and should be taken on a cases by case approach. We can't see everything he can see and it doesn't show how much rust is around the actual stud mount. The floor area which holdfs the plate underneath the trailing arm can be very rustly, which weakens the integrity of that area, but I don't think the trailing arm would fall out.