Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ben on June 17, 2004, 10:00:56
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As asked in another thread does anyone have the part number for the valve stem oil seals for the 230SL. I am hoping there is a rubber type for the exhaust valve............does anyone know for sure ?
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
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Miller's list a valve steam seal kit for the 230SL at US$ 60. They only have their part id number. I do not have my parts book handy, it's at home, to check on the MB part number.
Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto
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Hi Ben,
The part number for the set I bought in 1987 shows: A127 050 0067
They're buried deep in a box somewhere, but I think they are all white nylon.
Will W14
1965 230SL 4spd
Victoria,BC
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Thanks guys but I actually bought the "all white" plastic type last year and its these I'm having problems with. Shortly after they were installed one or two popped off !
Currently two have lifted again and one has actually broken. I saw somewhere pictures of the set which contained white for inlet and black rubber for exhaust, and wondered if this is a "new" type. It may have been for the 280SL though ??
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
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Hello Ben,
The top of both intake and exhaust valve guides where the seals grab are smooth on a M127 and M129 heads. Later Mercedes W113 heads (M130)had exhaust valve guides with a groove cut in the top for valve seal to grab onto. The intake remained smooth on all W113 engines. After W113 production Mercedes heads had valve guides with grooves cut in boh the intake and exhaust valve guides for seals to grab onto. I beieve these grooves were added as time went on to help keep valve seals in place.
As materials improved Mercedes upgraded materials used in making valve seals on their newer cars. I believe the black rubber like material is Viton. These black seals are used in all the newer engines which have the grooved valve guides. The new valve seal kits for the older W113 cars inbclude the new improved black Viton exhaust seals which are designed to grab the groove in the top of the exhaust valve guides. Since the intake valve guide has no groove, as far as I know the white nylon type original intake valve seal is used (M130 engines).
Now since the 230-SL M127 engine has non grooved valve guides only the original style white nylon valve seals were supplied (as far as I know). Someone else may have more current information?
Next you must get to the root of the problem. None of these valve seal designs were defective. Things that cause valve seals to come loose are; wrong valve seals, improper installtion, worn valve (internal diameter) which causes valves to wobble around a bit, worn valve guide (outside diameter) which decreases seal gripping power. Extended periods of bad storage during which time valve seals can become hard and brittle or get stuck to a slightly rough valve stem may cause seals to jump.
The top outside of old valve guides where the valve seal grabs can become worn mirror smooth from seal movement, encouraging even new valve seals to "jump" (move off the guide). New valve guides have a micro ribbed machined finish which seals grab onto nicely. I have even seen later (280-SL) grooved exhaust valve guides with the grooves almost worn smooth.
Some tips; if you are reconditioning you may want to automatically replace all the guides. Machine shops only check the internal diameter of the valve guides. Bad wear on the exterior of old guides is often overlooked decreasing seal holding power. If you have a "jumped" seal,inspect the condition of the ouside of it's valve guide, replace the jumped seal with a clean dry new seal. As Dan and Cees have mentioned thouroughly clean the exterior of the valve guide before pressing it on. Oil may incourage the seal to jump again. Solvens such as "Brake Kleen" etc. work nicely for cleaning.
This information will be a little confusing to those who have not been through the process. Here is a photo of some of the different valve guide and seal combinations for the W113 engines;
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) M130 engine valve guides and seals.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/ja17/2004618224512_M130%20engine%20valve%20guides%20and%20seals.JPG)
41.03 KB
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) early type w113 valve seals and guides.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/ja17/2004618224733_early%20type%20w113%20valve%20seals%20and%20guides.JPG)
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The "Cylinder Head Discussion" post has some other information also.
http://sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=1113,head,
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Hi Joe and thanks for that, thanks to Dan too !
I can only assume I didn't clean the area, or dry it properly ! I had new original valve guides and new valves so there no wear or wobbling taking place, actually one popped off very soon after I re-started the engine so there must have been some oil there !
I guess all I can do is reorder a set and ensure everything is clean and oil free !
Thanks again guys !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
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Guys,
Realise this thread is old now but Im in the middle of head rebuild and Im noticing the exhaust stem seals arent exactly tight on the guides too. Ive got an older 230 engine with plain guide tops (no ridges or grooves). With new guides and seals fitted the seals do rotate on the stem when I rotate the valve iteself. When I first put the seals on they popped off as soon as I moved the valves up and down. With much cleaning and attention to seating the seals stay on the guides when I push the valves up and down. They still rotate with the valves tho. Im not instilled with confidence, but as Joe says - they are designed to do the job! I would add I thought Joe's note and pictures was excellent - explains the issue so well.. many thanks Joe.
All the best
Paul
Paul (1964 230SL)
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Mmmm well I didn't have any problem putting these on, but they still popped off !
My car now puffs some smoke at start up and I can see that at least two of the seals are up !
I have a new set to go on but I wondered if there was some kind of holding liquid ( glue ? ) I could also use !
I think they should hold toight on the guide and not rotate at all with the valve !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
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Hello Ben,
Did you replace all the guides first of all? Yes, I don't think the new seals should rotate. Look at the inside of your seals. There should be no lip which is for engines with grooved guides. Are your intake or exhaust seals jumping? Do your seals look like the ones in the photo for the early
W113 engines?
I do you have a good method to replace these jumped seals with the cylinder head still in place? I have the original part number for this early seals #127 586 0005.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Hi Joe,
Yeah when I overhauled my engine last year I fitted all new guides, the early type. My new guides didn't have any grooves, never looked closely at the seals though !
I think I have at least two exhaust valve seals that are loose !
I did make up a tool for replacing them with the head still on as I replaced them a few years ago in a vain attempt to fix the engine prior to rebuild !
I'll check what part numbers are on the packet !
Thanks again !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
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Current part #s for stem seals I found for 127 981 engine:
000 053 1958 Inlet
000 053 0958 Exhaust
127 586 0105 Full set
naj
65 230SL
68 280SL
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Naj that suggests inlet and exhaust are the same ??
Is that correct or are you just typing too fast ??
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
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Typing too fast Ben.
#s corrected.
naj
65 230SL
68 280SL