Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: mmata on March 18, 2011, 21:41:02
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I beleive it is one of the best. I will post several pics, soon.
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........pardon my intrusion, but should it not be " KIENLE " ?
CHEERS !
WITT !
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........pardon my intrusion, but should it not be " KIENLE " ?
CHEERS !
WITT !
No, it's like an IPad.
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.....I still don't understand, what's an Ipad got to do with a restoration ? Pardon my ignorance, but I am always willing to learn !
CHEERS !
WITT !
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Didn't you know, you can do anything with an iPad. ;D
Am guessing, however, that someone had their predictive text on and Kienle became Kindle
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Yes, the same thing happened in one of my threads where the word "Guano" (manure made from bird droppings) suddenly appeared :-)
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Thats, right. My mistake. And the Ipad is also changing words, it is true.
http://www.kienle.com/index.cgi?lang=en&x&y&z=20110407ee9905395v34071334v54&a&b&c&d&e
Here are some Pics.
Enjoy.
Best regards to all.
Thanks for posting.
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Great photographs... and what airco is that?
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WOUF, WOUF - what a beauty!
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Great photographs... and what airco is that?
Caught my eye too. Very nice!
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It looks like a retro, after market air condition unit. It is interesting, the difference in choices they make between restorations in the US and in Europe. Here, it would be rare to find someone use an after market air condition unit as it would be considered "non-original". We even go to the trouble of reproducing the "Frigiking" placards...
Also, the leather covered sun-visors...I'm sure the Kienle installed AC unit blows a little colder than the stock unit and it is harder to redo the visors in Red MB-tex, but just like it seems to be not only ok, but apparently even preferred to boast of a Mercedes-Benz "factory exchange" engine over there (instead of rebuilding the original, correct engine), originality and restoration is not valued as highly as replacement of parts with brand new ones....
Best, Tom
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Hi Tom, don't know whether that generalization is completely true - 10-15 years ago or so, a lot of US-imports that "came back" had been restored with a rather casual approach to originality costing their new owners large sums of money to rectify. When I lived in Houston in the mid-90s I was very close to buying a very sweet looking Volvo P1800 from an equally sweet old lady, but it turned out the the original engine had been swapped for a modern V8. Although it was probably a very fast car (in a straight line), I walked away...
That said, things have gotten a lot better on both sides of the Atlantic - probably as the cars have gotten older, rarer, more expensive and thus appeal to an audience who are keen on keeping them original rather than just barely keeping them roadworthy. You still see mint, low-mileage original examples going for a lot more than even the best restorations over here: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=13869.0
So I don't think there is much difference between Europe and the US in that respect anymore - it is more likely a matter of personal taste/preferences rather than a case of nationality. Personally I like the originality and patina of my own car - the way it smells, the way it has accumulated decades of life - even if it is a bit tatty in places, I would never restore it completely (can't afford it anyway). But I still respect and understand mmatas decision to have his car restored to a standard that probably surpasses the cars that rolled out of the factory in the 60's
Best regards
Ulf
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Hi Ulf
I agree with you that any comments like that are always a generalization. But that's what I have found. In general...:-)
That car from a little old lady probably isn't representative of how a true enthusiast on either side of the Atlantic or Pacific
treats their P1800. I also know about many horror stories of European collectors who buy a cheap Pagoda sight-unseen from some unscrupulous sellers in the US and then are surprised when all the "rust free" claims turn out not to be true. Since I originally grew up in Berlin I have a good insight into what was important to German owners of "Oldtimers". In 2000 I attended the Pagoda meet in Berlin with well over 100 w113 parked together at the Mercedes Niederlassung in downtown Berlin. It was big affair and owners proudly displayed their shiny, well-running cars. But, barely a few of them displayed their cars with the hood open and of those not many had done much work to the engine bay in terms of cosmetic work. Even a "top notch" Pagoda displayed inside that had been restored and serviced by Mercedes themselves, was not as exciting as one would have wished. Is this a generalization? Yes. But, I think the emphasis lies elsewhere with these collectors. Sometimes, I have even seen Pagodas for sale proudly claiming:" Everything replaced. All new panels and floors, welded in at great expense, factory exchange engine and such. Whereas few people here would dare to make those claims....
I think I have a good idea why too. Traditionally a nice, fancy car in a European family 30 or 40 years ago, was driven as a primary vehicle on crowded, salted roads, all year round, often parked under a lamp post at night. Whereas in the US, collectors (especially in California) were already starting to own three and four cars, stored in a garage and driven and cared for carefully from the day they left the dealer (especially if the were European cars :-)
....(although my Grandfather, who was also originally German, bought one of the first Mercedes after the War and he would often complain about how badly it shifted (automatic transmission) and how underpowered the car was, compared to the Lincolns and Cadillacs he apparently preferred. From his perspective, I'm sure there was some truth to it... :-)
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From what I recall that was a very expensive air conditioner. The Mechatrinik system is also very expensive but it's hidden away under the dash.
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I think the main issue is that a lot of "new money" (another generalization, I know!) now tend to buy Pagodas (or other classics) to add the style that their shiny new Cayennes and Audi cabrios can't do (at least not for another 40 years or so). Their emphasis is different from most true collectors who have chosen with their hearts rather than what makes them look good.
This has created a market for shiny, restored and expensive cars - but who's to judge? Our beloved cars are still on the road, some might even have been close to being scrapped before being restored and as long as people stay close to the original recipe and don't go "Pimp my Ride" on their cars, I'm fine with it :-)
Ulf
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BTW - my first classic was a tatty Spitfire that I slowly improved on over the years as funds allowed it. Next car was a really tatty TR6 that I had completely restored - I still miss the Spitfire the most as the TR6 simply had lost a lot of its personality in the restoration :-)
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It looks like a retro, after market air condition unit. It is interesting, the difference in choices they make between restorations in the US and in Europe. Here, it would be rare to find someone use an after market air condition unit as it would be considered "non-original". We even go to the trouble of reproducing the "Frigiking" placards...
Also, the leather covered sun-visors...I'm sure the Kienle installed AC unit blows a little colder than the stock unit and it is harder to redo the visors in Red MB-tex, but just like it seems to be not only ok, but apparently even preferred to boast of a Mercedes-Benz "factory exchange" engine over there (instead of rebuilding the original, correct engine), originality and restoration is not valued as highly as replacement of parts with brand new ones....
Best, Tom
Hi Tom, would you use this car every day in a hot country ? My wife drives this car almost every day. The only modification this car haves is the alternator of a recent Mercedes C. And as you can see, the aircond was mounted below panel without spoiling anything in the tablier. It was my demand when I decided to pay a new aircondicioned, and it was much cheaper to rebuilt an old one. Thanks for your comments, I always appreciate good comments.
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I will post pics from the engine.
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Tom Collit said
"We even go to the trouble of reproducing the "Frigiking" placards..."
Tom: do you have these to sell? If not, can you advise source. I need one.
Gus
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My '69 280 has what looks like a Fridgeking unit in it, but the faceplate is unmarked, and must be an aftermarket copy. Is anyone familiar with an aftermarket unit that was a direct copy of the Fridgeking? Would a Fridgeking plackard make it appear original? ;D
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Love the interior color, does anyone happen to know what color and/or color code it is ?
Cheers to all 113 enthusiasts !! :)
Joe
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The initial post is over a year old but it looks like a metallic like 178H medium grey. For the different paint codes have a look in the Tech Manual.
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/PaintCodes
Garry
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Yeah Garry its an old post.... :o
Actually I was after the interior color code :)
Cheers, Joe
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Looks like if it's MB Tex it could be 117 Red 2500 or as it is a 280SL more likely be 132 Red 3000. In leather maybe 242 Red 3000 again because it is a 280 with the later colours.
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/UpholsteryCodes
Just be careful if you are using the colour charts from the Tech Manual to choose a colour as computer screens can give differing colours and it is always wise to get a sample first to check. Dont ask me how I know, but the learning experience involved Dark Olive touch up paint more than 5 years ago!!!!
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Hi Tom, would you use this car every day in a hot country ? My wife drives this car almost every day. The only modification this car haves is the alternator of a recent Mercedes C. And as you can see, the aircond was mounted below panel without spoiling anything in the tablier. It was my demand when I decided to pay a new aircondicioned, and it was much cheaper to rebuilt an old one. Thanks for your comments, I always appreciate good comments.
I do drive my Pagoda almost every day, but I did get rid of the AC. Of course I live in L.A. where it is barely needed, although they were often dealer installed. P.S. In Essen, I just saw at least 10 Pagodas ranging from 50000s to 150000s Euros and I was not impressed with the quality. (Sure, they also had shiny cars)....
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Color is Bordeaux 3000 and paint 180g
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sorry my late answer. bordeaux 3000. and 180g paint
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Interesting data card. The information should be typed (I have never seen one hand written - am I accurate on that point?), and the color, if leather would be a three digit code beginning with "2" (MB tex would begin with "1").
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Hi Jonny, you are right! This data card is from Kienle when the car made the restauration. They always do this. I also have the original data card but the color is not the same.