Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Garry on March 10, 2011, 08:28:02
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Just got my car back in the garage from the mechanic who was replacing the front oil seal to stop a leak. Took off the hard top that I put on last week for security whilst it was at the mechanics yard . Turned to walk out and crash and bang, the hard top hanging from the hoist attached to the ceiling joist above the car fell back on the car from about 5 feet above. My bad dream had come true.
It punched a 6 inch by 2 inch deep hole into the top of drivers door and wrecked the chrome door top trim.
dinted in the soft top hatch, dinted in the top of rear panel behind door and put a large scratch down the front fender as it fell to the floor off the side of the car. Hard top chrome trim also bent but no glass broken. I am surprised it did not tear the rail off the side of the hard top as one side held and the other side obviously slipped out.
Am trying to look on the bright side before I cry into my double malt. I have a good excuse to get the head light notches put back in whilst the repairs are being done that the panel beater removed when he did the paint job three years ago. :'( :'( :'(
I think I need to build a redundancy safety strap into the hoist!!!!!
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Wow Garry, I feel for you :'( :'(
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Man, that sure is painful... :(
Sorry to hear about that Garry.
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I think I will keep mine in the stand on the floor. My wife and son complain when I need help putting it on and off but I can live with that more than a repair.
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i also keep it in the stand. 100 times its no problem with the lift, but the one time....
i feel with you.
Peter
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The p.o. of my car told me, that the same thing happened to him - it's a sad story, but I hope you are well insured and that you'll get your car back in time for summer :-)
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That's a ****... but after such hard luck, don't add insult to injury by crying into your malt scotch... two wrongs don't make a right! ;)
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i feel sick just reading this. Sorry to hear this Garry & hope your insurance sort it out asap.
What happened with the hoist- did the rope snap?
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I'd appreciate knowing what happened so that I/we can avoid a similar problem. Was it the hoist, sling, other...?
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How many owners actually use the hard top at all? My car is a winterr garage queen in the Northeast. The hard top was on when I took delivery from the PO but since that day 7 years ago it was only the first winter I put it on- since then the winch is still not installed and it sits on the cradle. MY 16 yo is likley strong enough to help wit the install but why bother
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I have only had the hard top on the car three times in eight years. I like most, leave it on a top stand however when I took it to a mechanic two weeks ago, he indicated he wanted it for the whole week and so I decided to put the top on so that it did not sit in his workshop and get covered in dust as they do in workshops and was a bit more secure if he put it outside.
The hoist I use is the hand winch type with pullys that make up a small block and tackle, a bar across the roof with roof gutter grips with wing nuts in a similar fashion to the old roof racks that fitted into the roof gutters. They are advertised on eBay all the time and sell for around $100+.
In fitting it you need to find the middle point so that it hangs level as you lift it off. If I used it a lot I would know but but only using it for the third time I had to adjust it a couple of times before I got it right. In tightening the wing nuts on the grips that last time, I obviously did not get them tight on one side, or at least they looked tight but I did not shake the metal bar to check that they were actually locked in. In now looking at the fitting I see that it has a bolt that is squared under the bolt head and that this may not have been fitted into the square hole in the grip fitting thus whilst giving the feel of being tight, was probably not being fully tightened and allowed the fitting to slip off the roof gutter on one side.
It lifted up all right and appeared to be sitting suspended above the car and I tied it off and turned back to the car to move it out of the way to allow me to lower the roof onto its rack and with a loud crash I turned to see the front corner of the roof crash down on the door, one side of the roof still held by one rail grip with the front locking device doing the most damage to the door. The second grip then gave way as well and the rest of the roof then falling onto the car and sliding off one side scratching it as it then slid off the side onto the concrete floor and leaving it leaning against the side of the car. Seemed like a minute as I watched it all happen in slow motion but all done in 10 seconds.
Peter you were right, don't mix water with the whisky so I drank the best bottle of red wine I had and went to bed.
Its a new sunny day now and I am just about to take the car, roof down, to a couple of paint shops that I know have had Pagodas before. I don't live where it was originally done any more so a new painter needs to be found. I have a local weekend car rally in three weeks, that was why I was fixing the oil seal in the first place and had put the top on.
I think I will need to design a second strap from the cross bar to go around the around the roof just in case. I always felt uncomfortable with the lifting device and lever left the roof suspended from it longer then necessary. Its on the rack now, maybe I will never put the top back on!
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I wish to add my condolences along with other fellow members who have responded. I have a similar winch for my top and I use it twice a year. Once to take the top off in the Spring and again in the fall to put it back on. I bought the winch new and a safety strap was included. I have never used the safety strap in the past but, I will use it in the future.
Thanks for sharing so we can all benefit. I only wish you also could have benefited from this.
Thanks,
Ted
1969 280SL
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Garry, that is just awful news. First things first, let me say I am glad you were not hurt (flesh-wise). Or anybody else. I know my little girls sometimes hang out with Daddy near the car -- danger is never far away. Second, i think you are taking this surprisingly well -- says a lot about your character. And just know we all feel the agony for you.
I could also include a link here to a close call I had -- mine was a near miss -- but I don't want to divert attention. (search "close call" anyone and you will see it.) But together let's hope people take notice -- hoists are a definite risk. I have resorted to asking my wife to grab a side -- 5 seconds of power lifting and its done. Best of luck getting the car back on the road.
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i have mine on the rolling stand that buds benz sells----------i was cleaning my garage a couple years back-----------my driveway is on an incline------------ i was rolling it out so I could hose the garage floor down and it rolls down the driveway. I stopped it but as i caught up with it, it fell off the stand. I diverted much of the fall, Luckily it just scratched it and causes a fews mall dents that can be fixed easily, after the need to repaint the whole thing. Probably a $500.00 mishap. what a pain in the ass these tops are. We need when and if we ever sell them. That's about the extent of our hardtop use
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Garry, I'm really sorry to hear the news and like all, probably feel horrible for you , but don't really know the feeling. With Spring about here (at least for my part of the world), I hope you are able to get the repair work done well and quickly.
Rolland
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Garry,
So sorry for you !
I recommend not being hard on your self, it might not have been your fault.
It sounds like we have the same or similar part that grabs the top.
I had a 6 inch drop version of your story happen to me. I still have the small dents to show for it.
It was one of the first times I ever used it and I was extremely careful in securing it.
Mine is not a fool proof design and I have stopped using it (have I just called myself a fool? :D ).
I'm so glad there is a hint of "glass is half full" attitude in your "voice".
I know you will enjoy those fender notches when this is all behind you. (of course I'm certainly glad no one was hurt also)
Mark
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I sold my hard top a long time ago.
I had a ' 69 280SL long before the Red Rocket and I decided to take it to auction. It was a Thursday afternoon and I had the hard top on the car ready to leave for the sale. I had some new seals I wanted to put on the soft top before I left so we removed the hard top. I installed the seals and we were about to put the hard top back on when I heard my phone ringing. I ran to the house to answer the phone.
( can you see where this is going? )
I finish my call and go back outside and there's my father and our hired hand ( farm work ) standing beside the car. As I got closer I could see there was something wrong. The top was moved beside the car and the they looked like a couple of kicked dogs...
YUP! They decided to start without me having zero experience with the job!
'' What did you do???!!! '' I moaned.
'' We got tired of waiting for you. '' replied my father.
It was my fault I had a phone call, I guess. The paint was all scratched off the ends of each rear 1/4 panel but it wasn't anything as bad as yours Garry. I took the car to my body shop the next day and they fixed it up so you couldn't see it.
Took the car to auction and it sold for about 12.5K Never made a dime on it. Early 90's as I remember it.
You need to be fairly tall and reasonably strong to lift the top over the back of the car and be able to hold it up long enough that it doesn't get dropped. A hoist seems like a better option - until now....
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.....that is exactly the very reason that I build my own hoist. Please feel free to look at my previous post and copy it. Since the support bar goes all the way through and rests under the roof there is no way it can slip. I never trusted the strap and clip-on type that is commercially available, being affraid of what happened to you.
Unlike others, I drive all winter ( what little we have.....) with the hard top installed. In the summer I very seldom have the soft top up and drive top down allmost allways.
CHEERS !
WITT !
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Witt,
I like the idea of having something under the roof lifting rather than the suspension method. I will have a look at what I have and see if I can do some adaptions to it to make it safe.
For those interested, here is the offending hanger and fitting that clamps onto the gutter.
The financial cost of the lesson learned appears to be between $3,000 and $4,000. Just waiting for some confirmation of pricing on the door trim and paint matching. Definitely an insurance job. That will probably be another bad story as they try to screw it down to the bare minimum painting.
Garry
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Garry,
I feel for you and I don't want to ad insult to injury, but I would not trust those clamps with a heavy hard top. Don't use it again, pleeeeeease !
CHEERS !
WITT !
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Garry,
the clamps look strong enough but perhaps the locking mechanism is not up to the task.
I bought used Thule load bars which have similar gutter clamps and have had no problems they can handle 118 pounds for sure.
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Now i am worried...just install EZ hard top hoist and was planing to hoist the hard top off next month .....is anyone familiar with this hoist
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Hi Alfred,
I believe my problem was with the bolt and wing nut. The bolt has a square under the bolt head that fits into a square of the fitting. I suspect that it was not into the square and even though I tightened the wing nut up really hard, a slight shake or the such like made it move into the square and thus loosen the fitting allowing the roof to slip out.
I think the idea of having something under the roof in a similar fashion to Witt's method, still using the hoist as the primary giving the hoist a redundancy in the event that the primary fitting allows the roof to slip out or alternatively something that goes from the front and also the rear that is latched on after the roof has been lifted only a couple of inches if necessary.
As Witt suggested, I will not use the hoist again until I have a secondary hold on the top as well somehow. When I work out something I will post how I have done it. I think a lot of us here are using this kind of lift and it is fraught with danger. Discussion with an experienced Pagoda mechanic today he said he had actually heard of the roof rail detaching with that kind of fitting and the roof falling back on the car.
Tradjim, put a photo on here of the EZ hoist, does it use the same method of attachment?
Garry
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http://www.easyhoists.com/cars/sl.html
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EZ hoist pictures...
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Tradjim,
now that is a good hoist as it holds it from underneath and lifts rather than grips it from above and pulls it up together with the bar for forward and backward movement. It also gives me some good ideas for adapting what I have already to something like that. Do the two ends disconnect for installation or do you only remove one end?
Very nice and tidy looking car.
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Garry ....both ends swing out 2 bolts on each ...I haven't hoisted the top yet but when i do will post some pictures tks
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Garry,
After seeing your picture of the part that connects to the top, I can confirm I have the same setup as you (and for those that haven't read my previous post, I too have had problems with it).
I hope I played no role in you purchasing that part. In other words, I hope you weren't encouraged to purchase due to seeing it in my garage.
Remember, fender notches .... notches are very good !! .... and no, I don't have notches. :(
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I keep saying, at least I have an excuse to fix the notches now but I just ordered a new chrome piece for the top of the door that got destroyed from SLS for 200 Euro plus postage and it is hard to keep looking on the bright side.
I just went for the cheaper hoist I think, but having seen how Tradjim has his, it would be very easy to do some adaptions to the hoist so that it also has the lifting units under the top with buffers on the ends and a cross piece as well as the gutter grips. That way it should not give further heartbreak.
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Hey Garry,
I made 2 slings out of seat belt webbing which I sized using granny smith knots (which don't slip) and connected to two steel welded rings.
These are then clipped to a beam mounted boat winch with stainless steel wire and hook.
One sling is for the front to back and the other side to side (sits under the rear side windows just behind the posts).
To operate the setup, all I have to do is shoulder lift the hard top and slide the flat webbing under the posts.
Mine is a manual winch so I have to reach above my head and gently wind the handle one click at a time.
I think an electric winch would accomplish the same thing a lot more easily.
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Gary,
Sorry to hear about this.
I almost had the same ting happen so I tied some ropes to the garage supports to so if the top dropped it would stop about two inches above the car.
Gives some piece of mind.
Bob
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Thanks for all the sympathy. Finally got in the quote and its $5800 worth of damage. Definitely an insurance job and the new chrome door top is on order from SLS.
Could have been worse, someone could have been underneath so at least no injuries only to my pride and joy or should that read toy.
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thank you , I am building a lift, and are using your experiences and ideas, it is changing, I started w/Thule gutter, bar pulleys etc. but I'm re-thinking the design. thanks again.
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....the real challenge when fabricating my hoist was to find pick up points on the HT that will not leave any marks on it. I am quite proud of my solution and am supprised that nobody else has thought of it.
As I mentioned before, if I had to do it again I would choose lighter material. Just consider this the "Prototype"
CHEERS !
WITT !
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Somewhere on here is a post of mine from a couple years ago. I made this hoist cradle from galvanized pipe, a garden hose hangar, and some hardware I had in a drawer. Foam pipe insulators and a piece of soft carpet protect the finish. The hoist hooks into a single eye bolt on the center pipe. The two pipes cross and are conneced with U-bolts. This allows you to adjust the CG to get the balance right. The carpet pad pushes down opposite the hoist hook and the whole thing balances perfectly. The garden hose hangar provided two bows to reach under the top. A hitch pin allows the bow to be easily removed and inserted into the cross pipe. I can easily remove the top in seconds. When lowering it, the single hook point allows me to carefully steer the top pins into place on the windscreen and door pillars. It's not pretty, but is super strong and works a treat.
Note that my Coupe does not have a pin protruding from the base of the rear window. I would imagine with any hoist arrangement that is the most common danger area.
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There is a bright side to this sad story.
The reason I was taking the hard top off was to prepare my car for its first official car showing!
I decided to still take my car to the rally a two day event known as The Great Macedon Ranges Grand Tour http://www.macedonrangesgrandtour.com.au/ and took out the Presidents Choice award even though it did have a band-aid/sticking plaster over the damaged door! I think I got some sympathy votes.
Into the repairers next week for a $5800 insurance job.
Garry
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Somewhere on here is a post of mine from a couple years ago. I made this hoist cradle from galvanized pipe, a garden hose hangar, and some hardware I had in a drawer. Foam pipe insulators and a piece of soft carpet protect the finish. The hoist hooks into a single eye bolt on the center pipe. The two pipes cross and are conneced with U-bolts. This allows you to adjust the CG to get the balance right. The carpet pad pushes down opposite the hoist hook and the whole thing balances perfectly. The garden hose hangar provided two bows to reach under the top. A hitch pin allows the bow to be easily removed and inserted into the cross pipe. I can easily remove the top in seconds. When lowering it, the single hook point allows me to carefully steer the top pins into place on the windscreen and door pillars. It's not pretty, but is super strong and works a treat.
Note that my Coupe does not have a pin protruding from the base of the rear window. I would imagine with any hoist arrangement that is the most common danger area.
....I copied Raymonds method after consulting with him first and added my own crossbar.
CHEERS !
WITT !