Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: perry113 on February 05, 2011, 21:52:41
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I wanted to know if there was any impact on price and desirability on 280SL's that the California Coupe configuration. These cars do not have the soft top or the soft top compartment configuration.
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Yes. It is typically understood that the lack of a soft top makes about a $3K deduction, all else being equal.
That said, as a Coupe owner, I love having the extra space in the back with the seat folded down. It makes road trips a lot more convenient. The hard top is signifcantly quieter. And I have managed to have several day trips without the top. You have to be going when you know it won't rain and be reasonably certain nobody is going to mess with it. That part is not terribly convenient.
Still, I love the look of the car with the signature hardtop and that's why I bought it. I am most happy to have the hard top in the winter, rain, and humid Florida summers. Besides, we have a BMW rag top and a VW Cabrio if we need to suntan our scalps. If this will be your only toy, hold out for the tent top.
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As I understand it, a tonneau cover was an optional extra for the Californias - probably NLA, but a decent trimmer should be able to manufacture one. But if you live somewhere sunny and have a garage with a hoist for the top, the 3k lower price will make it a pretty good deal...
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I think that $3k is a bit conservative, given that the frame is normally $3k+ on eBay then you have to buy the top material kit, fit it and also fit a hood bay if you want a soft top fitted.
I have been tracking US prices pretty closely for a few months given I am looking for a RHD there and I would have said that $5k at least but it could be more and suspect that they are difficult to sell and do not get the asking advertised price very often. They do not appear to reach their reserve on eBay so must be being sold by negotiation off line.
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...and Garry, you would probably be more correct.
According to the SL Market Letter which tracks actual sales and compiles them, "Subtract $4,500 if hard top only; add $2,000 if BOTH hard and soft tops in good condition" This is off a baseline price based upon condition, model, etc.
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My car came option 5 hard top no soft top but with soft top compartment. I added the soft top. I paid $1500 for the frame but most frames are about $2500-$3500 on eBay. Mine was missing the weather strip channel and the pieces are quite expensive. One of them is NLA but I got lucky and Buds had them. I had to buy one from the classic center for about $300. I ended up at just over $4000 for everything installed. If you buy a frame make sure it has all the hard pieces. Mine was still a good price compaired to the $3000 used frame.
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Thanks Mike, adjusted for inflation, $4500 seems about right. (Hard to believe I've had my car 8 years.) There are plenty of variables affecting the prices of 40 year old cars, but if you could find identical condition cars, the attraction of the soft top is indisputable. That was the original question.
I have an electric hoist in the ceiling of my garage and it takes under 2 minutes to be ready to roll and about that to put the top back on. And, because I know the coupe is less desirable than the roadsters, I don't feel guilty making modifications that take it away from it's Germanic purity. Also, after riding in Jamie Howard's excellent 230 in France last September, the soft top is at best "fiddly". So, to me, the car has a value that it probably doesn't have to most.
That said, if I buy another some day, it will be a roadster/coupe (both tops).
As to the toneau idea, there are manufactured cockpit covers sold for the car, but they don't fit the California Coupe. I bought one and it expects to be clamped into the top compartment cover, so it comes up about 5 inches short of covering the tub for the back seat. I gave it away at the PUB last time. I haven't gotten around to visiting our local sail maker to have one custom made.
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One of the greatest assets of the W113--and you, Ray, probably know this as much as anyone if you think about it--is the complete "vista" you get in that car with the hard top on. There is an unbelievable visibility, and that was actually one of the design criterium according to some of the history. Even with the somewhat more confining soft top, you still feel a great "wide open" space. I've never been in any car that comes close.
With your 5-speed working; with the a/c on, who needs a soft top, right? ;)
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There is an unbelievable visibility, and that was actually one of the design criterium according to some of the history. Even with the somewhat more confining soft top, you still feel a great "wide open" space. I've never been in any car that comes close.
That's because the roof is so high, and thus the height of the windows, as well as the front windshield not being at a substantial rake, like newer cars. With a little wear in the seats we all look like Florida drivers.
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Check out this tonneau cover.
You can leave it on while driving, opening only the driver's area.
Made from same fabric as the top.
http://www.adsitco.com/category.asp?CID=1554&VID=
Joe
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Just as an aside, I thought I'd add one more bit of trivia -- some cars were ordered with the soft top "well," but with no soft top. So it's not enough to say "no soft top" since it's actually possible to have a Coupe/Roadster without a soft top. Confused yet? :-)
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That is option 5 on the paint code data plate as my car has.
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The toneau cover for the 107 won't fit and the one Californina Covers makes for the 113 does not fit the California Coupe.
Hey, given that SoCal got snow this year, I should start calling it the Florida Coupe! 8)
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In looking at the differences between the California Coupe and the regular production car one has to take into account more than the soft top frame. The soft well, soft top hatch cover, release cables, chrome caps on each corner, hatch cover hinges with springs, wooden panels, box to hold wooden panels, and the covered vertical panels on each side of the wood panels.
While all of these pieces can be found as used parts the soft top well must be cut out of a wrecked car. This job takes several hours but the installation could take a few days. Nothing about this conversion is easy or simple.
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Dr. Dan is right again. Enjoy the Coupe for it's own character, or buy a roadster in the first place. I LOVE my Coupe. The original question about value doesn't change that. I don't miss folding the canvas and worrying about the plastic rear window. Or vacuuming the pollen off of the rag top. Or worrying about the whistle where the top rubber doesn't fit. Or having to carry plastic "shoe horns" so the fabric doesn't chafe while folding. I find happiness being able to hold a conversation at highway speed without straining your voice. I enjoy the more usable storage afforded by the fold down rear seat. I can even carry a medium-size adult in the back seat behind the passenger. Each to his own.
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Wouldn't you think that a California Coupe equipped car might be an exception to the rule of a car with a 'missing" soft top? since this was a rare option on a Pagoda, I wouldn't catagorize it the same as a a car with a missing part or parts.