Pagoda SL Group

W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: pmo956f on November 04, 2010, 22:52:39

Title: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: pmo956f on November 04, 2010, 22:52:39
Hi , have tried to search this , is there a guide , or list  to which items (and colours ) should have the coloured paint dabs (factory checked ??) as would like to put them back on my Resto  (67 250sl)

Thanks !  ;)



Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: ja17 on November 11, 2010, 03:50:50
Hello,

I don't believe this has been documented by our group yet.  It would be a nice group project. Maybe we should start a new thread and have every one join in and help.   

I do know one thing the colors often changed a bit from time to time during the production.  I think that the size, color and character of the paint marks also reflected the mood of the inspector that day!

The colors I have seen are white, red, blue and drab green. 
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: Garry on November 11, 2010, 06:18:36
Search under torque paint and you get this
Quote"
Mark,

The late Frank Mallory gave this response in a forum when someone raised this exact question:

"Actually, there is a field of study know as "dotology" that is devoted
to analysis, recognition, and cataloging of the paint spots on Mercedes
(no joke).

Most of the paint spots were applied by the special torque wrenches used
by Factory inspectors; when the wrench reached the specified valoe for
that fitting, it squirted out some paint.

Other spots were put on springs, motor mounts, and other components, to
designate their value in shore hardness, etc.

The reason these marks are being studied is that when a car is restored
to 100 point condition, it is considered essential that it have the same
paint spots it left the Factory with.

Frank M."Unquote

Garry
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: Bernd on November 11, 2010, 14:01:21
Hi Joe

Garry is right. In fact I also started a thread before our website crash which seems to have been lost? Didn't get much response but I have started a folder on my own personal computer with some of the markings that I notice when good pictures are posted. There are a couple of threads going back to 2009 that addresses this as well. I for one I do agree with you that it would be a good addition to the TM. A lot of the dots on my car were still present when I started the restoration. While some may be applied with torque wrenches squirting out pain, there are plenty that are clearly brushed. My car had everything from red, white, the drab gren you implied to a canary yellow. Interestingly, the biggest variance I noted seems to be on the springs,  which ?might  relate to the different springs and rubber pads on our various versions.

I vote for a group project!!!!!
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: 280SE Guy on November 11, 2010, 21:10:53
Taken from a European Mercedes Brochure is this picture:

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_cytuKWu2FZA/TNxarrkPT5I/AAAAAAAAA2U/tqtvvUOrJRs/torque%20marks.jpg)

Regards,

280SE Guy
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: ja17 on November 11, 2010, 21:48:30
Thanks Guys,

This is great! I would like to start a spread sheet with all the imformation. I will have to go back and look through all those old posts.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: 69280sl on November 11, 2010, 22:02:05
For the database

I had pale yellow dabs on the mountings of my original brake booster (both ends), early 68, # 1084.

Gus
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: parry on November 14, 2010, 12:38:57
The above photo shows that the paint dabs were done with a large paint brush hence why the paint dabs were not neat. When I detailed my 190sl I probably made the dabs too neat (although when I stripped my 190sl the paint markings were neater than those on my 280sl).

The yellow factory torque dabs in the attached photo of my booster mounting confirms the above. I will be stripping my 280sl in the next few months and will try to document as much as possible.

The 190sl Group (Thanks to Bruce Adams) has this 'Dotology' well documented and as W113 production succeeded 190sl production the same procedures may have been adopted.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: Bernd on November 17, 2010, 15:35:29
Joe

we need an area to upload to. What do you think is the best way to do it? Should we set up a TM section with the different categories that folks can upload to when they are sure they are looking at original markings? That way over time we get a complete picture. Since I have never set up an area in the TM i am not sure how to do it.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: 49er on November 17, 2010, 15:51:06
 I am the original owner of a 1969 280 SL and many of the inspector paint "dabs" are still pretty visible. I will get out my camera and see if I can get some photos to post here.


john
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: Bernd on November 17, 2010, 16:19:45
Driveshaft before restoration
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: Bernd on November 17, 2010, 16:23:42
Driveshaft part 2
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: ja17 on November 18, 2010, 05:32:13
Hello Bernd, Gus, Perry and John,

Yes, good idea Bernd, I am not sure how to set it up either.  Maybe someone else can help? In the mean time we can keep collecting information on this thread.

John, thanks, any photos will be appreciated.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: wwheeler on November 18, 2010, 20:05:17
Are the markings on a '68 111 the same as a 113? If so, I have some that I can contribute.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: ja17 on November 19, 2010, 00:17:41
Hello Wallace,

Most likely they are the same, same era.   

Thanks,

Joe
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: wwheeler on November 23, 2010, 21:17:04
On my '68 111 coupe, a lot of my paint markings are in tact on the suspension fasteners. The interesting thing is that many have more than one color on them.

3060 is the front grease cap made out copper and has the static tab on the inside that rubs on the spindle. Both sides have this red mark. When I cleaned the cap w/ mineral spirits, the red mark remained.

3178 is the tie rod clamp and both green and red can clearly be seen. This is typical for all of the clamp bolts.

3181 and 3182 are pictures of the upper arm fastening nut. Here, there are THREE colors, red and yellow on the nut itself and then green on the bolt shaft end.

More pictures to come. Medium green bright yellow and red seem to be the only colors found.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: 49er on November 23, 2010, 23:49:06
I finally got around to taking a few photos of some my 69 280SL inspector markings. Undercarriage needs a good cleaning so come summer, I will take a few more. A little cold on the garage floor today:-)

john

picture no 1 front left wheel well
picture no 2 front left wheel well
picture no 3 brake booster
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: 49er on November 23, 2010, 23:53:07
4 more

picture no 1 intake plenum
picture no 2 rear axle
picture no 3 rear suspension
picture no 4 rear axle
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: 49er on November 23, 2010, 23:58:42
four more pictures (wish we could post more then 4 at a time)

Picture no 1 Rear suspension
picture no 2 front left suspension
picture no 3 Sway bar front left
picture no 3 front right suspension


all for now

john

Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: wwheeler on November 24, 2010, 15:31:30
Here are more 111 paint markings:

- 3184 is the lower arm attachment to the king pin. Red is on the center with yellow remnants on the nut. Just like the ones before, multiple colors.
- 3186 is I believe the upper arm attachment to the frame. The bent lock washer can be see with yellow markings.
- 3193 is the same as 3184 but the other side. Same red w/ yellow.
- 3198 is the lower arm attachment to the subframe. Can only see yellow on these.  

More to come.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: wwheeler on November 24, 2010, 15:40:23
Here are the last of the markings that I have for now:

- 3200 is the air screw. I have repainted this, but it was originally yellow
- 3196 is the mounting bolt for the front ATE calipers. Only red can be seen. The other side has the same markings.
- 3192 is an interesting one. This red mark is on the auto trans bellhousing and is just above the top starter bolt. I don't recall seeing other red marks on the other bellhousing bolts, so this must be for the starter.
- 3188 is the well documented nut securing the brake booster. It is yellow like all of the others.

This is all I have for now. I'll keep looking and post if I see more.
  
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: wwheeler on November 29, 2010, 16:12:07
I have been doing some work on a brake caliper and found some more paint dots. This is about it for my front suspension.

- #3209 is the bolt head on the front side of the upper king pin connection. The nut on the backside of this connection (#3181 and #3182 from earlier post) had green, yellow and red whereas this bolt head only has green.

- #3208 is the nut that attaches the sway bar/ front leaf spring to the frame. It has a very slight amount of yellow still left.

- #3205 is another picture of the bolt holding the front brake caliper on. The interesting thing about this is that when I went to bend the locking tab, there was red paint UNDER the tab. This means that they painted the bolt first, and then bent the locking tab. There was not any red paint on top of the locking tab itself.

Because many of these fasteners have multicolors and some just have one, there must be a definite procedure as to when to use the yellow, red and green.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: pmo956f on November 29, 2010, 22:29:23
Just checked the forum re my original qs re the paint markings ,  great to see so many have an interest in this unusual topic!

Thought id post a pic of PMO 956f  ,  a work in progress (3 years!)

have just finished paint , (bare shell rebuild) complete with db180 colour drift over beige underside texture to floors !

Any clues to the best spray wax treatment to apply underside clear brown /gold colour as original ?  waxoyl /dinatrol??

Cheers

PMO
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: 66andBlue on November 30, 2010, 04:41:32
Here are few photos with dots on my 230SL.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: Jonny B on November 30, 2010, 19:22:44
Any comment on the type of paint that would be good to use?
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: Bernd on December 01, 2010, 12:57:41
I am sure originally itwas just oil based paint with containing a bit of lead for good measure. I am just using acrylic hobby shop paint. it comes in so many tints that getting close to the original isn't too hard, and it looks fine. If someone else has a better solution I would be curious too
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: 280SE Guy on December 01, 2010, 14:42:19
A friend and I discussed the paint markings back in the early 1990's. He coined the description for the green and yellow as being "parrot poop green" and "baby $hit yellow".

I had a pint of the green and yellow paint made up back in 1994 after bringing clean samples to one of the local auto body paint supply houses who put them in their paint reading machine and came up with an excellent match.

The labels on the cans reads as follows:

Green Color:

DuPont Centari Acrylic Enamel
43737A         Contains Lead
Car: Volvo   Yr: 75   Alt: 2   VOC: 4.6 Lbs/Gal
Code: 118
Color: Green

Tinting guide   mix size: pint
758S Drier   23.5
742A Blue Green   28.5
720A Phthalo Blu   38.0
738A Lt Yellow   108.0
705A Black (HS)   203.5
700A White   326.0
756A Binder   469.0

Yellow Color:

DuPont Centari Acrylic Enamel
5194A         Contains Lead
Car: FoMoCo   Yr: 70   Alt: 1   VOC: 4.4 Lbs/Gal
Code: 0

There was no tinting label on this can so I'm assuming there were no tints added.

With the elimination of lead in paints we have today I can't guarantee the above will convert to the proper colors. You would have to consult with a paint supplier in your area.

There is nothing like the smell of an open can of the good old paint  :)

Regards,

280SE Guy
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: Bernd on December 02, 2010, 13:37:47
Hi everyone...This is GREAT! Love it. keep up the good work. I will also take more pics of mine and post soon.
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: parry on December 05, 2010, 12:29:25
Hello PMO,

We extensively use Wurth products on all our restorations, in particular the Wurth Cavity Wax comes in three colours, transparent 0892 082, Light Beige 0892 081, or light Yellow 0892 080

Product PDF at : http://www.wurth.co.uk/catalogue/pdfs/UK-CD_08_0555.pdf

The light Beige is very close to that used by the factory and is superior to any other product that we have used. The attached photo is of the light yellow.

ps where in UK are you, I am based near Stansted Airport!

Cheers
Parry


....db180 colour drift over beige underside texture to floors !

Any clues to the best spray wax treatment to apply underside clear brown /gold colour as original ?  waxoyl /dinatrol??

Cheers

PMO
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: 280SE Guy on December 11, 2010, 12:28:52
This might not be pertain to this subject but behind the fuel injection pump on my 108 there is a red USA painted on the side of the block:

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_cytuKWu2FZA/TQNr6xE-WGI/AAAAAAAAA4s/tHSvX_OI3vw/DSCN1005.jpg)

Regards,

280SE Guy
Title: Re: coloured paint markings to various parts - is there a guide ?
Post by: rb6667 on December 11, 2010, 20:34:59
Something to add, and a question.  I recently got a 4.5 rear end, 327 ratio, out of a 108.  This thing was covered in dirt and grease.  I got out my parts brush and about a gallon of kerosene, and got to work.

    There are paint marks all over the place on this rear end.  Mostly white and yellow.  One mark that really caught my eye, was the one right next to the fill plug.  There is a very large "P"   I don't know if this stands for Passed or Posi.

Any thoughts?

RB6667