Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: ja17 on April 01, 2004, 21:09:03
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Attention! this chart has been recently updated 4-13-04 (PM). If you have saved earlier versions replace it with the rev. 4-13-04 version!
All charts on this string have been brought up to date to reflect the most recent information.
Hello,
Here is a chance for everyone to contribute to the chart. It will become a valuable resource. Check your head casting # and compression so we can add the information to the chart.
The head casting number is cast onto the cylinder head on the spark plug side. The compression ratio is close by. Be aware that the head casting number is for reference. The current Mercedes head "part number" may be different than the casting number.
See this post (http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=1338.msg6675#msg6675).
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Joe,
I assume mine is the same as the second one listed. I can't see the last couple numbers because of the bracket that holds the spark plug wires and stuff. I have:
127 016 19??
E 9.3
At least I think it's an "E". It looks like a backwards "3". My car was produced in Sept. 1966 and has the original engine, transmission, axle assemblies, steering assembly, etc.
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Hi Joe,
My 1970 280SL reads as follows:
130 016 08 01
and
8-9.5
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Hi Joe.
127 016 1801
I do not see a compression nummer. (but I have compression -- so that's a relief!)
** I should add that years ago, I put a new "shortblock" from MBZ in. I imagine that makes a difference.
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Minor side point: the 'E' or backwards '3' that Rodd mentions immediately before the compression ratio is probably the Greek letter epsilon. The same symbol is shown in the Tabellenbuch where compression ratios are listed.
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For my 1966 230SL (February 1966 build date) I have:
127 16 1901
E 9.3
The last two digits of "1901" are hidden behind the forward attachment point of the bracket that is used for arranging the spark plug wires and the pivot point for the injection pump cross-bar linkage.
The engine, trans, injector pump, etc., are all original to this car and have not been apart.
- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
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George,
Thanks for the epsilon education! I assume that the Tabellenbuch is the Technical Data Manual?
Mike,
Your head number ends in 1901, but the one in Joe's database is 1903. Now I'm curious if I have a 1901 or 1903. I guess I'll be removing a bracket this weekend!
James,
The compression number is directly below the center of the casting number on the same flat surface. It can be hard to find because of other "stuff" blocking your view.
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Thanks for the help Rodd, Jeff, Mike, George, and James,
I updated the chart with your information. This is the kind of good data which is not easily available anywhere but here.
I am sure some others will add to the table soon.
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The number on my head is 1300163201 280SE/A on a 1970 280SL. Is this a replacement head and of what type?
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Hello Bruce,
Yours should be a slightly later version of the "280 SE/A". It may have some very minor revisions. It should have the "oval combustion chambers" and use the latest head gasket. I do not know at this time if it is a replacement head or just a revision during the normal production. I updated the chart with your data. Thanks!
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Hello Joe,
I just checked my 250 sl numbers
Compression 8-9.5
It is partially hidden but looks to be 129 016 03 (plus 2 numbers) I re-checked and it is 03xx not 08xx as per your list.
One question? If I undo the bolt holding the cable bracket will the nut need to be sealed with silicone?
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Hi, Bob,
The bracket bolt goes in a dead-end hole. No sealing required.
naj
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Hi, Joe,
Details for my 280:
Engine #: 130 983 20 001324
Head #: 130 016 0701 Only '280' on casting
C/r: 9.5
230 details to follow
naj
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Thanks Bob and Naj,
Naj has supplied the latest head gasket part numbers for the chart. Manufacturers frequently upgrade the original parts by improving the design and construction, resulting in part number changes. Yes the manufacturer's part numbers may be helpful also. "New old stock" head gaskets may not have these improvements. The chart is now updated with Bob and Naj's information!
Thanks!
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Details for my 280:
Engine #: 130 989 22 008600
Head #: 130 016 07 01 Only '280' on casting
C/r: 9.5 (looks like - although may be 9.3)
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Hi Joe,
127 016 1901
E-9,3
Will W14
1965 230SL 4spd
Victoria,BC
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Hey Naj,
Thanks for the info about the bolts.
Bob (Brisbane,Australia)
early 250 SL, RHD
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Joe,
The chart shows head gasket part numbers starting with 129 for heads starting with part numbers 127. Is this correct?
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Yes, Rodd,
230 and 250 engines use the same head gasket.
Indeed, even the cylinder heads are interchangeable.
230 heads are like 'hen's teeth' to find so 250 heads can be substituted. However, only complete heads are interchangeable - 250 valves and guides being slightly bigger.
Different part numbers are quoted for the 230 and 250 manifold gaskets. Not sure yet what the difference between the two is. Hopefully, someone here will know.
naj
65 230SL
68 280SL
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euro 230sl built july 64
127 016 19 01
9.5
is original engine number and I did triple check it is 9.5
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Thanks Tosh, Will and Phil, for your input. Phil you are really going to shake some people up! As you stated 9.5 compression 230-SL head! The three I have and most of the others have are 9.3 compression heads. I had to drag out the BBB and look for myself. Always somethiong to learn. I am going to update the chart now. I guess I will have to go back and update a couple of previous posts also!
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Since my head has the same casting number, I went and double checked my compression number and it still says "E 9,3!" As Alice once was heard to say: "Curioser and curioser!"
- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
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230 and 250 use the same head gasket sets. The stroke is longer in a 250 but the bore is the same.
Late 280SE/A heads are completly different than the early engines. The head gaskets are NOT interchangable and if you use and early head gasket in the late engine it will run for half an hour and then burn through filling your cylinders with coolant ( don't ask ) This is why I always use only water on fresh rebuilds until I know everything is OK. Had I been using coolant and not water on the Red Rocket the engine would be toast. I still don't have it fixed yet though.
Dan c
Daniel G Caron
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Hello Dan,
Yes the two types of 280 engines are different animals in many ways. If you use an early 280 head gasket on a late 280 engine the cylinders will immediately fill with water. The additional cooling passages in the later block and head will be open the combustion chambers. The chasis production break point for the change was ...013 615 in the SL and ...040 705 in the sedans. Since engines get changed, the best way to make sure is to follow our new "cylinder head chart" (above). It is the best documentation available anywhere.
Additional details can be seen on page 01-9 and 01-11/3 of the BBB.
Here is a photo of the two type of 280-SL head gaskets.
http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/ja17/20044103815_Head%20gaskets%20M130%20engines.JPG
Always keep your old head gasket until the new one arrives to compare!
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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I made it to my garage today and checked my nine 280 heads. Here's the results:
130.016.00.01 "280" early style E 9.5 E (2x)
130.016.07.01 "280" early style E 9.5 (2x)
130.016.11.01 "280 SE/SL" later style E 9.5 (3x)
130.016.11.01 "280 SE" later style E 9.5 (2x)
One thing that was interesting is that there is a later style head that has the fittings of the early style, i.e. it has the 'pod' on the side with the temperature sender etc.; the threaded hole where the sender is supposed to go is plugged up with a bolt.
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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Hello Cees,
Thanks for the added information! I updated the chart.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Hi Joe - do you know what the extra "E" after the customary "E 9.5" could signify?
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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Hello Cees,
I don't have any idea what the "E" signifies on these heads, possibly a minor production change?
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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quote:
Had I been using coolant and not water on the Red Rocket the engine would be toast.
.......Why ??
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
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Hi Joe- Better late than never:
Head CN 127 016 19 01
Compression E 9.3
1966 230 SL, Euro(Italian), 5 Spd ZF
Original engine 227566 km/+/-141,318 mi.
Regards, -JP-
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Thanks for the input Jim,
It looks like pkiefert has the only 9.5 compression 230-SL head so far.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Hello Joe,
Here are the Norwegian numbers:
Engine #: 130 983 1200 4621
Cyl Head #: 130 016 07 01
Comp. 9.5, 280 (only)
I know it has the early type head gasket since I made a complete engine overhaul 2 months ago.
Per
Norway
69 280sl, Aut, Moss Green
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Thanks knirk,
It seems that the early 280 engines used the same parts USA or Euro models. Did you do the engine work yourself?
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Hi Joe
Yes I did everything myself. When I was a young longhaired hippie some 27 years ago I had several 61-65 220sb cars. To hold on to the girls I needed at least one operational at all times – hence a lot of time in the car shop. The Pagoda is so similar that I didn’t hesitate for one second when the job was needed.
The 280sl was imported from the US about two years ago. I don’t know it’s history since only the original owner was shown in the documents. I expected that the 93.000 miles showing was more like 193.000 since the engine block had been previously bored. The cylinder block showed very little wear. The smoke and oil use came from worn valve guides and valve stems. Since I had the engine and gearbox out (also to paint the engine room and overhaul the power steering), I changed the valves and valve guides, all the bearing shells, piston rings and timing chain with guides. I had a shop measure all the parts and I also used them to install the new valve guides and to hone the cylinder walls. The valve seats were like new.
I got all the engine parts from SLS (sls.sparebase.de). They use prices 30-50% below Norwegian MB dealers. Total sparepart cost; about $ 2.900. Engine shop; $ 480.
Documentation: I used the BBB and Haynes Owners Workshop Manual. I also read Chilton’s “Engine repair and rebuilding” guide beforehand to gain some confidence. It could be done with the Haynes book only.
The most difficult work: Reconnecting the hysterical amount of tubes and cables. They cannot be marked good enough! I have all the options like AC and Cruise Control so there is a lot of plumming.
The most exiting work: The fitting of the timing chain on the camshaft sprocket. The sprocket index didn’t match exactly when the chain was installed – so I wasn’t 100% sure that I had selected the correct position. Same with the refitting of the fuel injection pump. A little hard to see if the alignment marks are positioned correctly before installment. But it was!
The most boring work: Cleaning, cleaning and cleaning. I used a rotating nylon brush on the engine exterior, and a wire brush on the parts. I found very good use of the Dremel micro tool for the really small brushes for those hard to reach corners like the combustion chambers and inside the manifoil.
The most fun part: Going out in my garage, put on some music and start fiddeling with the car – it’s the best recreation. And finally after months of work when I started up for the first time and it run like a big cat.
Per Gunnar Birkeland
Norway
69 280sl US, aut 834 Moss Green
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) 280sl.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/knirk/200442245927_280sl.jpg)
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Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) 280sl 2.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/knirk/20044225029_280sl%202.jpg)
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Forgot to mention that I also changed the piston rings. They were among the most expensive parts at $ 724 for a complete set of 87.5mm rings. There were 4 rings for each piston, but I only needed 3. I guess the newer engine version uses all 4.
Per
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Hello Per......your car look lovely .....great colour !
Any chance of a few photos of the interior ? I havent seent hat colour on the seats before...........and being Irish I'm partial to a bit of green !! :)
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
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I too am partial to green, not Irish; lovely car. What is the top color?
Bruce; Blaugrun(green) 1970 280SL; IL
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Hello Ben and Bruce
I have tried to upload some interior pictures, but get a server failure message every time. In the meanwhile I can tell you that the car and hardtop was repainted just before I bought it with 834 Moss Green metallic. My insurance guy claimed that it should not have been metallic for this year’s model. He also kicked about my tyres that are 205/70x14 and not the original 185x14. But I got the insurance anyway. The interior color is also 834 and the soft top is 747 dark green.
Per