Pagoda SL Group

W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: motoguzzi on August 17, 2010, 17:58:50

Title: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: motoguzzi on August 17, 2010, 17:58:50
Anyone know of a source for a gear set for a 1964 230SL?
Mercedes can get the set through Germany but it is crazy expensive.

Thanks very much!
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: JimVillers on August 18, 2010, 00:11:15
It is much cheaper and easier to just purchase a complete rear end. 
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: Garry on August 18, 2010, 01:34:22
Completely agree with Jim and while you are at it, you may want to think about getting a 3.46 or 3.27 ratio axle.  Have a look at comments on axle changes in the forum by searching under rear axle.
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: Benz Dr. on August 18, 2010, 16:51:10
Not for a 230SL.  3:27 is much too high for that car. Most of them have 3.75 which is only slightly lower than the highest ratio available for 113's at 3.69
   
230SL's are only just adequate with the standard 3:75 ratio but would be very slow if you have an auto trans with 3:27 ratio - in fact, I'm pretty sure it would be a dog.
Once you were up to road speed then it would be OK on a level road. If you have a rebuilt engine with the lower compression pistons then definitely forget the higher axle ratios.
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: menesesjesse on August 18, 2010, 18:39:51
Dr Benz is right on this one for sure.  I have the 3.75 with automatic and my dad has the 4.08.  My car car is a dog compared to his.  I do however like cruising highway speeds at under 3500 rpm (70MPH).  3.75 is as low as I would go.  Food for thought.
Jesse
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: graphic66 on August 18, 2010, 18:53:11
I went from a 4:08 to a 3:97 in my 66' 230SL auto. I liked the 4:08 a little better, a little peppier off the line. Not a big difference, but noticible at slow speeds. At high speeds it revs a little less higher, not much. The big difference was disc brakes, not worth switching axles for alone, but a real nice upgrade. I switched because I had sudden differential failure. I had the axle from a 67' 250SL, so I used it. During the switch I bought a complete 230SL drum brake axle, but decided to go with the disc brakes, it was worth it.
  It is pretty hard to outhink the people that built these cars unless it is something modern that wasn't available back then, like electronic ignition. I'm with the Dr., you would have a real dog with a 3:27 in a 230SL Automatic. You need two things to go that high in gearing, more torque and more horspower. You aren't going to get any more of each out of a the W127 2.3 litre motor in it's standard configuration, these engines are pretty good even by today's standards. The SL is one heavy car for it's power, someone on here refered to them as the torqueless wonder. And your peak horsepower and torque come on at around 5500 RPM, not midrange like a lot of regular V8's.  
   You get used to the sound and feel of these engines as you drive them more and more. But, as the good Doctor has said before, only rev a good running, warmed up motor real high, not a worn out death rattle engine.
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: Benz Dr. on August 18, 2010, 19:43:50
Thanks 66. Is that route, or age? ;)

 I find these engines tend to have very strong mid range torque and by 5,500 they should be maxed out and more RPM than pulling power. In high gear, the torque range seems to work differently and it stays '' on cam '' a lot longer, or at least you don't pass through it so quickly.

 I changed from a drum brak to a disc brake axle recently and found that the rear drums are just as good as the rear discs. Both seem to work quite well.

Do you mean 3:92 not 3:97?

Dan
 
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: Naj ✝︎ on August 18, 2010, 19:58:32
A W111 Fintail (finback ?) 220SE  4.08 rear axle is the same as a 230 SL rear axle (110 350 0203)

Maybe easier to find one of them at a breakers?

naj
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: graphic66 on August 18, 2010, 20:02:08
Yes, it must be 3:92, the housing was rusted so bad it was no longer legible. I turned the pinion and counted the rotations and did some research on what was available in the 250SL and it is most likely the 3:92.
    I think the drums and discs in a stopping compitition would be pretty equal, except for fade after getting hot. The discs just seem so much more responsive and smooth compared to the drum brakes. It does seem better driving with the discs, but, like I said, it isn't worth changing out an axle for that very slight advantage. It will be lots easier when it needs the brakes changed though, those drum brakes are a pain and they are getting hard to get the shoes. Although those little parking brakes in the disc brake cars are no fun.  
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: Benz Dr. on August 19, 2010, 01:43:04
I try and keep relined shoes around but they seem to always get used up. At least the material is better quality today than what was used on the original shoes.

Changing the rear shoes is much easier if you use a big C clamp to hold the rear shoe in place during installation. I just did a complete on a ' 57 190SL which is a lot more work because of the self adjust mechanisms. Not an easy car to work on......
Standard gearing is 3:90 on those cars. 'I've changed a few from 3:90 to 3:70 from a 190D but even that small amount is VERY noticeable with only 1.9 liters. Better at higher speeds but a lot is lost on acceleration.
 
Whenever you go to higher gear ratios there's always a trade off which is why I like my 5 speed so much. 4:08 for really good pull out of the hole, and a final drive ratio of about 3:46 for good economy. You can't beat that combination.



 
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: motoguzzi on August 20, 2010, 16:44:02
Thanks everyone for your feedback and suggestions.  As this is a very early '63 230SL (#378) I tend to want to keep it as original as possible.
I found a set and, based on the relative lack of finding these separate (not in the diff) I'll just buy them and see what ratio I get.

Thanks again everyone.
Title: Re: Source for Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) '63 230SL
Post by: ja17 on August 21, 2010, 06:01:53
Hello,

Lots of work setting just the gears up. If your off a little you will have a noisey unit or wear problems.