Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: tomaco1 on November 11, 2009, 14:23:13
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I've searched the site and the net and I can't nail down which Benz manual is considered the BBB I see reference in many posts. I have the Haynes, but would like something more detailed.
I was also wondering if there is a build section somewhere to document a build? I used this on another forum while building my d90 and it was very helpful, both to myself and others facing the same issues.
One last thing, if anyone has a Dark green car and would like a spray can of the factory paint color(free) let me know. I bought 2 shades of green to spray samples and match color, I went with the Dark Olive, so this is extra, would be great for little parts or small touch-ups.
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I've searched the site and the net and I can't nail down which Benz manual is considered the BBB I see reference in many posts. I have the Haynes, but would like something more detailed.
The BBB is really two books depending on what year your car is. The two books are:
Service Manual
Maintenance, Tuning and Unit replacement
Passenger Cars starting August 1959
and
Service Manual
Passenger Cars Starting 1968
Series 108 - 109 - 111 - 113
Maintenance, Tuning, Unit Replacement
Both are approximately 8 1/2 x 11 x 2 inches thick.
Search ebay if you want to buy these. If you see one or the other for under $50, that's a bargain. If you see one or the other for over $125, you can do better if you wait. There are different appearing versions of the BBB based on when it was published/printed. (The BBB was reprinted and sold by MB for a long time. Might have a blue/treen cover w/ some white background, or might be a solid light blue cover with black printing.
Don't get confused with the Service Manual Volumes 1 and 2 for 114 / 115 cars - looks about the same but totally different.
Unless you have a 230 SL, you probably need both of these books. If you have a 230 SL you don't need the second one, but still nice to have.
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Thanks,
Mines a 1969 so I figure I'll get the later one first?
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http://www.mercedesmanuals.com/1955_1972_Mercedes_Benz_100_121_SL_198_113_Factor_p/p2700ev4000.htm
Any thoughts on this.
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I believe the service CD is still available new from MB for about $30.
The various BBB versions are also still available from MB in print form. Something like $120. However, some of the early prints have more info than the current print.
My car is dark green (db268). Where do send a check for postage? :)
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Just PM your address, don't worry about the postage. You might have to remind me a few times, but its yours.
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Thanks,
Mines a 1969 so I figure I'll get the later one first?
No. The first one is 1959 - 1967ish. If your car is 1969 you should get BOTH because the second one doesn't include lots of stuff in the first one. My car is a 1967 and I use both.
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I believe the service CD is still available new from MB for about $30.
The various BBB versions are also still available from MB in print form. Something like $120. However, some of the early prints have more info than the current print.
Just to weigh in on the CD - my opinion is that it is close to useless. Also, I don't think that MB has printed the BBB for a number of years.
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http://www.mercedesmanuals.com/1955_1972_Mercedes_Benz_100_121_SL_198_113_Factor_p/p2700ev4000.htm
Not a substitute for the BBB.
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You can order them from Mercedes. See this page in the Technical Manual: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Documents/BBB
Peter
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Just to weigh in on the CD - my opinion is that it is close to useless.
Well, I won't say it is complete. But it is useful to have most of the relevant BBB pages in PDF format for browsing on my laptop, especially when I'm away from my twelve-inch thick pile of BBB literature (I have multiple versions).
Also, I don't think that MB has printed the BBB for a number of years.
I just checked with the classic center (follow the link provided by Peter). It is still available.
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I just checked with the classic center (follow the link provided by Peter). It is still available.
I think that it is available on CD in English, or in German on paper. It says it is out of print in English.
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Which is exactly what it states in our Technical Manual...
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Hello,
In years past, Daimler-Benz periodically published shop manuals covering current models being produced. In many cases they were not model specific, but covered most of the models introduced or in production at the time. Often times 15 or 20 different models were covered in the same volume.
Since these Factory Shop Manuals were normally published early in the production of a new model, early versions of the shop manuals soon became out of date as production changes, upgrades and variations of the models occurred. To keep the dealers up to date, supplements were published to add to the dealer Shop Manuals which were often "loose leaf format" making it easy to update. In addition bound versions (non loose leaf) were published also.
Depending on when the bound versions were published, they may or may not have all the latest supplements and variations included.
The W113 era stretched from 1963 through 1972. During this period information on these cars was mainly in two major BBB Shop Manuals. "Service Manual Maintenance, Tuning, Unit Replacement, Passenger Cars starting August 1959" deals with early W113 cars and some specific information on the 230SLs not covered in the later BBB. In addition some information in this manual relevant to the latter W113 cars is not covered in the latter BBB.
The later Factory Manual "Service Manual Passenger Cars Starting 1968 Series 108, 109, 111, 113 Maintenance, Tuning, Unit Replacement" deals with the W113 model also and has more information on the latter cars.
To cover all most systems on the 230SL the early manual will do fine. For the latter W113 cars, having both manuals is useful but having the later is next best.
Now if you are purchasing a bound or loose leaf manual and it does not have all the supplements and updates you will be missing a lot of information you need. Get the latest printing of the bound manual to be sure you are getting a complete BBB. I have two versions of the 1968 BBB, one printed in 1968 and oneprinted in 1973. The 1973 includes all the supplementary information not available in 1968. The 1968 printing is very incomplete.
I also have the latest bound printing of the early 1959 BBB (Factory Shop Manual), which was printed in the 80s and has supplementary information included which were up until 1967. So if you were a dealer you started with a loose leaf manual in 1959 and were issued supplements for the next eight years. Eventually as models went out of production, or a new BBB replaced a previous version, Daimler Benz would publish a complete bound latest version with all the supplements included. In the case of my latest version early manual The Forward reads "Supplements as such are no longer available for this Service Manual". In other words it is complete and the latest version.
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I did search the Tech manual and the site extensively, I just wanted to make sure I was buying the right manual. Thanks for all the help, I think I bought the right ones now.
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I found these manuals recently that are a great help when working on the car , I've also got the later 108/113 manual. Both these together have so far covererd all my needs.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk223/pj-tigger/manual.jpg)
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Hello pj,
You have a nice set of Dealer Workshop Manuals (loose leaf format). You can see they were made with plenty of room to add factory suppliments. Hopefully someone has added all the supplimentary informationfor you already.
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The manuals have had regular updates added but i don't know if there's anyway to check if i've got them all.
The books look like they have never been used so i'm planning on scanning the pages & then i can print of the bits i need to use in the workshop.
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The manuals have had regular updates added but i don't know if there's anyway to check if i've got them all.
The books look like they have never been used so i'm planning on scanning the pages & then i can print of the bits i need to use in the workshop.
Hmmm. Labor intensive. Might be easier to either buy a more crusty BBB for the workshop or to print out the parts you want from the CD version...
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I just found a set of the Dealer workshop manuals (vol.1, 2 & 3) from 1959 like pj. I will get them soon!
If it weren't for this thread and more so the Pagoda SL group, I would have never known about the earlier shop books or the Dealer workshop books.
Continued thanks!
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I couldn't agree more! I can't imagine how people got their start before forums full of experts willing to share their knowledge were around. After using a site like this to rebuild an old Land Rover, I was very excited to find something as useful for the w113.
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Hello,
One way to tell if your early BBB is up to date is to check and see if has any infomation on the 250SL or SE in it. Since these cars were produced in 1966-68, only the latest suppliments and BBB would have them listed. My early BBB has supplimentary information dated as late as Feb. 1968 . The later BBB covers information after this time.
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I'll look for that when it comes in. The seller could not find a publish date in either of the volumes so that will give me an idea of how complete it is. Great tip!
Thanks Joe.
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The BBB is a great resouce and I often do research at my desk using it. When I am working on my car I will often print out the appropriate pages from the CD and I do not have to worry about getting them dirty.
Ted
1969 280sl w/ BBB, CD and Hayes manuals
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Here is another good book to have when looking for parts. It has the original part numbers. It also has info on vin numbers. It is the spare parts list 10 126 for all 230 SL
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The parts book is indeed an very worthwhile source. Be a bit careful, there are three versions of the 230 SL book, so there will be differences. You should have one that covers the year of your vehicle. The one shown is the last one for the 230 SL, Version C.
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The CDrom is NLA from Mercedes Benz Classic. They suggested using:
http://www.startekinfo.com
I payed $18 for a 1 day pass and downloaded everything I could find.
Its microfiche, so its a bit like reading the Dead Sea Scrolls.
search:
Legacy Data
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Here is another good book to have when looking for parts. It has the original part numbers. It also has info on vin numbers. It is the spare parts list 10 126 for all 230 SL
That is a signficantly more challenging book to obtain than the BBB. I have it though!
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Here is another good book to have when looking for parts. It has the original part numbers. It also has info on vin numbers. It is the spare parts list 10 126 for all 230 SL
... from which you can learn a helluva amount of knowledge & differences in detail on these cars. :D ;)
Best is to have both,
the 10126 230SL Edition C as of January 1967
and
the 10202 W113 (250 & 280 SL) Edition C as of January 1972. ;D
Both are (were?) available from Mercedes-Benz Classic as perfect reprints.
Even better were to have all six parts lists... :o
... three for the 230 SL
... three for the others.
The parts book is indeed an very worthwhile source. Be a bit careful, there are three versions of the 230 SL book, so there will be differences. You should have one that covers the year of your vehicle. The one shown is the last one for the 230 SL, Version C.
Jonny,
Cannot fully agree here.
Usually the last version (here editions C) cover all earlier cars.
For a very early 230 it is well worth to have the Edition A (or B if you want so) too.
Lots of tiny differences detectable there and usually even better drawing quality.
Contains also special equipment like power steering, leather interior and transverse seat.
A very nice collector item to have ...
Just my 2 cents ...
Achim
(sadly only with 4 SL parts lists)
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... and if you want to be absolutely complete and covered for your 250SL or 280SL add:
10127 M129 Engine Spare Parts List
10180 M130 Engine Spare Parts List
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And to add even more to your library, there is at least one auto tranny book, 10146 edition F. (chassis 108,109,110,111,112,113)
I think Achim and I are pretty much in agreement. If you have an early car and have a later parts book, you can really run into some headaches on the nitty gritty kinds of items that were prone to change.
My friend and I ran into some issues using a parts book edition D for a 190 SL restoration, when we should have had Edition C. Just enough differences so that every now and again a part we ordered was not correct.
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I do not think that reprints of the "Dealer Parts Book" are available new from MB. Correct me if I am wrong. Also, I think that the CDROM _is_ availalbe from MB. Correct me if I am wrong. I think that nothing is available in print in English that is new from MB.
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I ordered the CD from MB Classic site, its still on the site, but it never came. When I called they said it was no longer available, but it hadn't been pulled off the website yet.