Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: n/a on January 23, 2004, 21:30:35
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I am interested in finding out more about the designer who drew the 113 shape, Paul Bracq. I understand he was at BMW later on and was responsible for the 633-635-M6 cars, which are nice-looking, but not as good looking as a 113 car. Does anyone know what else he gets credit for, what other cars he drew, and if he is still with us? Just curious...thanks. (It's amazing what you start thinking about when it's winter and too cold for fooling with cars and boats...)
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Yes, M. Bracq is still with us. My friend and fellow Manhattanite, Fabrice, who is active in this club likes to remind me that the Pagoda was designed by a man from Bordeaux.
Here's a good bio:
http://www.chez.com/bracq/paulbrac.htm
Apparently, Paul Bracq is reachable at this e-mail address:
borisbra@club-internet.fr
Perhaps we should offer him an honorary lifetime membership as all Pagoda owners — past, present and future — are indebted to him.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #018260
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That sounds like a nice idea. I'm sure he'd be happy to hear from us.
Dan c
SL Barn
Daniel G Caron
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I will send him an e-mail and introduce the Group to him. I'll copy the body of my e-mail here so we all know what was said and what his reply was.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Maybe it should be written in French? And by the way, I think that's his son's e-mail address. I'm guessing that's who Boris is.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #018260
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While I have heard Paul Bracq's name often in connection with the W113, and seen beautiful drawings of the car by him, Guenter Engelen in his book "Mercedes-Benz 190SL - 280SL, Vom Barock zur Pagode", which by many is regarded as the bible for the W113, squarely says that the shape of the W113 was created by the MB designer Friedrich Geiger (who also had designed the 300SL), and the Pagoda hardtop was designed by Karl Wilfert and Bela Barenyi, based on a patent by Barenyi (that a concave roof would be more stiff in an accident) (Engelen, 3rd ed. page 111). Engelen mentions Paul Bracq, showing a fastback-coupe version of the W113 proposed by Bracq, which never went into production (Engelen, page 135).
Klaus
1969 280 SL
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Here's an idea....does anyone think that M. Bracq would be agreeable to the idea of doing a painting of the 113 car that would be available as a lithograph to Pagoda 113 members by advance subscription? His artwork is very fine indeed, plus it is hard to imagine a better person to paint an image of the car than the man who drew it, or at the very least played a significant role in the way it looks. I am not able to afford an original Bracq oil (not while I am restoring all these cars) but perhaps something could be done that we could all have a copy of. :?:
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Klaus,
thanks for your post. I have Engelen's book, and even though my German isn't very good, it was apparent that Engelen did not credit Bracq with the design. So there appear to be two competing claims here. I'm inclined to believe Engelen myself, but Bracq comes up so often that there must be something behind it. I wonder if there is any way to sort out the exact details?
George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual
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If Rodd or Fabrice introduce this club to Mr. Bracq they might ask him to write a short response, maybe an article for Pagoda World, on the body design of the W113 (or Fabrice might interview him for Pagoda World). He should certainly know a lot of background information. And they should mention that we are interested in the interaction between him and Friedrich Geiger.
Of course, Bracq was a manager, chief of advanced design according to his own webpage, Geiger was more a staff designer. Engelen writes that Geiger was shy and liked to be in the background, while Bracq seems to have been more flamboyant and public, also because of his art work and his work for MB advertising.
Klaus
1969 280 SL
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There are two interesting books about Paul Bracq (see attached pictures). You can see information about one of them in our "Publications" section: http://www.sl113.org/publications.asp
Attached is also one of his nice Pagoda paintings... [:p]
Regards,
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Llibre bracq2.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/Albert-230SL/200412732549_Llibre%20bracq2.jpg)
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Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Carross-passion.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/Albert-230SL/200412732630_Carross-passion.jpg)
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Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Bracq-painting.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/Albert-230SL/200412732945_Bracq-painting.jpg)
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Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
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Hello Group,
If anyone would like to meet Paul Bracq in person, he will be giving a presentation to the M-100 Group (Mercedes 6.3, 6.9 sedans and 600s) at their "Lode Star Fest" in St. Louis June 9th to June 12th. More information to follow.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Here is another interesting Paul Bracq website. It features his automotive designs for Benz, BMW, etc.
http://www.bracq-design.com/transports/design_transport.php
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Regarding this Group contacting Mr. Paul Bracq, we have arranged for an interview while he is in the USA at the M-100 Lode Star Fest. Please see event information at:
http://index.php?topic=1208
In the above listed discussion thread, I ask for questions which members would like to have answered by Mr. Bracq. Here's your chance to help formulate the interview!
If you would like to meet him yourself, the W113 Pagoda SL Group has been invited to fully participate in the Lode Star Fest event. Please see the above listed thread for details.
Thanks,
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Rodd,
I have some questions you could use for the interview.
In one of the sites about the design of the W113 mr Bela Barenyi is said to be the designer of the pagoda roof. It would be interestingly to know which part Bracq and Barenyi had in the design of our cars and if there has been discussion between the two men about the form of the roof. Why didn't Bragq the whole design?
I also noticed that mr Bracq tried to introduce the W113 front for other MB models. There are even scetches of these models. Apperently MB did not liked this American style front which was a hype at that time. A question could be: why did MB reject the W113 front for other models? Didn't they basicly like the W113 front?
Mr Bracq did also the design for the BMW520 and (only the interior of ??) the late Peugeot 505. I had both cars without knowing that mr Bracq was (co)disigner. A question could be: are there elements in his designs for different marques in which you can see his signature. For example: the BMW and Peugeot have also high roofs with big windows like the pagoda roof. The lines of the cars in length show a little bow like the W113.
Gerard Wuisman
1970 280sl
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Hello Group,
Is anyone going to St. Louis to the M-100 Group's LodeFest? This internationally recognised group has gone to extra lengths to welcome and include us in their single annual national event. See a fresh update at:
www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=1208
I hope to see a lot of you there, it will be a great time!
Thanks,
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420