Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: mdsalemi on April 21, 2009, 12:42:19
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Hi Folks,
My car will be going into my favorite shop shortly and one issue they'll solve is a bit of vagueness in steering, thanks to Gernold's assessment a couple of years ago. The shop works on quite a few 113's but they always appreciate any information I can give them. No, I don't move fast on anything.
After doing a bit of investigation here, it seems the most logical place to start is the steering coupling bushings, (located in the steering coupling); followed by the coupling itself, and lastly the steering box.
I know many of you have changed the bushings before, but my questions are as follows--
1) How can you determine, if at all, if the coupling bushings, versus the coupling itself, is worn?
2) Are there other parts/pieces in the coupling that can go beyond their service life, causing a replacement of the entire coupling?
(note: page 95 in my catalog B shows this as item 29, and it looks like a small U-joint)
3) The steering box does not leak, but may be worn itself. Are there any quick tests once things are apart to determine if the box is worn?
I see that our regular suppliers sell "rebuilt" boxes. Rather than an exchange, has anybody actually sent their box out for a rebuild? Who does this? My guess is if mine is worn, it is worn and not just old or bad seals.
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Michael .... If your steering box is full of oil, I would look elsewhere. You did not mention the idler arm and its bearing as a possible problem. That was the problem with my car and it can be "easily" fixed by installing a new bushing (may require some skill and a 14mm ream).
The test is to have someone wiggle the steering wheel with the car on the ground while you inspect every joint. If the idler rises and lowers a little, it is a problem. You can feel problems that you can't see by gripping the joint as the wheel is wiggled.
A good through inspection is better than jumping into a project.
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Michael,
(1) I'm not sure the coupling itself can wear out, unless the bushings suddenly disappear. Hold the lower portion of the steering column (below the coupling) and have someone turn the wheel to-and-fro in gradually smaller motions. If there comes a point when there is movement above but none below the coupling, then the bushings are most certainly worn out.
(2) Of course, if the car was driven with completely disintegrated bushings for a length of time, I can imagine the pins (over which the bushings fit) getting worn out or scored. Any wear on the coupling itself is indistinguishable from the bushings until the coupling is removed and inspected. At the very least, plan on replacing the plastic washers (2x), the plastic bushings (2x), the metal washers (2x), and the clips (2x). A while back I posted part numbers in another post somewhere here...
(3) The BBB has a section on checking the box for play once the box has been removed from the car.
And Jim has good advice: the idler arm bushings are a primary culprit of many a wandering steering. You can also try the reverse: raise the car from the front, and have someone grab the passenger side tyre (from the 3 and 9 o'clock positions) and wiggle as vigourously as possible, whilst you watch for movement in each joint throughout the steering linkage. This assumes all the ball-joints are good and tight. If the left side of the linkage moves very little (or not at all) whilst the right side is moving, then your idler arm bushing likely needs attention. If everything moves at the same rate, then your steering box might be the culprit.
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Thanks guys.
All suspension components--ALL--were replaced in the restoration and have less than 10,000 "easy life" miles on them now...I don't think the steering was touched.
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Michael,
I had the same problem with my steering a short while ago. Front end seemd to wander while holding the steering wheel straight ahaed and noticeable free play. I feared it was something in my power steering box, but upon taking a closer look and wiggling the steering wheel while holding the front wheel fast, I could easily see it was in the coupling. While I was up in Maine, I stopped by to see Gernold and he had a set of the plastic bushings that he simply gave to me and after some serious physical gyrations, swearing, sweating and whatever, I was able to disconnect the coupling without dismantling the whole front end and replaced the bushings. Has made all the difference in the world.
George Des
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Please correct me (and I'm sure you will) if I'm mistaken (and I probably am), but weren't those coupling plastic bushings replaced by a universal joint in the 280sl (or even 250sl)?
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Thanks, George.
I suspect it is the bushings, but I always need to be prepared for anything. It is costly and disturbing if you begin a project without all the parts ready to fit, or at least understand...my experience on my car is that none of the "issues" I've ever run into have ever been conventional. So to think a set of $5 bushings might solve it sounds normal--it's worked for many here--but it would be a first for me. :(
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Well Michael, sounds like you are due for a easy fix. Let's hope so!
Now, are these issues and responses for both manual and power steering?
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In the 230 and early 250sl's the steering coupler has replaceable bushings, on the /8 models the coupler is replaced as an assembly.
the coupler is the same on both P/S and Armstrong steering cars. I imagine the manual steering would put more strain on the coupler than P/S and would wear out quicker.
If the looseness is inside the steering box there is an adjustment, that can be made form outside the box, but this is something that I did so long ago that I don't remember the details. It has something to do with the acorn nut on top of the gear box, and I seem to remember that the adjustment works the opposite of how you would expect it to work.
and finally an improper toe setting (toe-out instead of in) can cause a vague wandering feel to the steering.
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...on the /8 models the coupler is replaced as an assembly...
A little off topic, but the coupling only changed to a complete assembly after June 1973 on the /8 models and cannot be repaired (it is rivited).
Before June 1973 you could change the plastic bushings.
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I'd like to supplement Al Lieffring's post about the outside adjustment for the steering box. On top of the box there is an acorn nut. Under this nut there is another lock nut. Beneath the lock nut is a round disk with two pin wrench holes. The nuts and disk are threaded to the bolt. This bolt is spring loaded and connected to a long shaft which becomes the pitman arm shaft on the under side of the box. If you have play inside your box and adjustment between the bolt and disk can be made. The adjustment increases or decreases tension on the spring loaded bolt and in turn components inside the box. To reduce play secure the bolt shaft at the very top and turn the disk clockwise. This will increase tension of components inside the box and reduce play. I would adjust in small 1/4 turn increments and then go for a test drive. Do not over tighten or break the bolt. Once you have the adjustment where you want lock it in place with the lock nut. Next add the acorn nut. You can remove the disk and replace an o ring if you have a leak. Index the threads above the disk so you can return the bolt to the orioginal tension adjustment location.
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have been told need new steering coupler for 230sl how difficult is this to change? have been quoted 4 hours
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Four hours sounds good to me darylw. It took me two days and the engine was out of the car. It was more difficult than pulling and repairing the heater core.
My car had issues with the steering shaft, and I had to align for the turn signals. Then I put the steering box in without a locking bolt on the first attempt. I ended up pulling the box a second time, applying a locking bolt, and then it all came together.
With the engine in the car, I don't think I could do it alone. Ron
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When the bushings in the steering coupling have disintegrated, the steering has a distinct feel. When driving down the road, it feels like there is no connection between the steering box and the steering wheel until you rotate the wheel several degrees. Feel carefully as you drive straight down the road. If the steering wheel seems to rotate freely for a few degrees and then have an affect on the steering, the bushings are bad. On the other hand, if there is a general but consistant looseness or vagueness, the problem is elsewhere. I hate to mention it but there may be multiple sources of the problem.
This does not match my memory but according to the parts book, the rebuildable steering coupling (111 460 03 10) was used on 230SL and 250SL up to 002979. After 002979 and all 280SLs used the non-rebuildable steering coupling (115 460 06 57 replaced by 115 460 09 57). Again, this is not now I remember it but I can't argue with the books! Also, you must realize that many of the rebuildable couplings have been replaced with the non-rebuildable coupling. This is the normal fix for most mechanics.
The bushings (two) in the rebuildable coupling are 111 462 01 65 and are readily available (list $4.50, my price $3.32). However, the plastic washers, 111 990 30 40 are no longer supplied and have been replaced by 115 990 17 40 (list $1.50, my price $1.11). The problem is that the replacement washers are not as flexible as the original washers and I am not sure if they will prove to have an acceptable life in this application. It is wise to plan replacement of the washers 136 990 95 40 replaced 124 990 41 40 (list $0.90, my price $0.62) and cotter pins 000094 002003 (2mm x 15mm) but I am not sure if Mercedes has anything acceptable for this application so you should probably assume generic which is the original size or close. If you want to take the simple route, just use steering coupling 115 460 09 57 (list $212.00, my price $156.27).
I have had good luck with steering boxes rebuilt by C&M Hydraulics.