Restoration Difficulty Level

[andyburns]

Cheers Rolf.   As they say 'no rest for the wicked'.  I will be working through the holiday to try and make a bit of money.  Will be trying to fit in some restoration in the gaps.  A little bit every couple of days is what the doctor ordered.   Just keep it ticking along.  Today I clear coated all my hard lines. Ie the brake fuel and oil lines.  Will post some pics latter.  Enjoying a few beers in the sun with good friends at present.

[andyburns]

Guys thanks for all your help today.  i will be looking closely at the upturned shock washer issue this week.  In the meantime I am hoping one you guys can help.  This might be a right hand drive specific question but I will throw it open to all of you to see if anyone can help.  Here we go...

I have pouring through my photos today trying to determine where all the pipes and wiring penetrate the firewall.  I think I have everything sussed other than the temp sender wire through to the instrument cluster. 

Check out my attached photo which shows where I think everything goes.  Frustrating as I want to close up the chapter on the dash install and currently this is the only thing standing in my way of nailing it.  Any of you right hand drivers I would really really appreciate if you could trace the  wire back from the engine block and tell me where it goes through the firewall.

[Garry]

Andy,

Here are the photos of my firewall and where each of the items goes through.

The first photo is the driver side entry for top being main loom then oil then temp
Second following to the RH side upper
Third to engine,
Forth the lower accesses on RH side for Tac, Speedo Washer and bonnet release

Hope that helps

Garry

[andyburns]

Thank Garry.  Great photos!   Will run with your scheme. 

I am interested to know if your car is fully restored and if so did you pull the loom and all the control cables completley out of the car when the work was done.  I am picking looking at the quality of the paint that you did this.

I am almost ceartain that mine was never touched given the red and then gold overspray over everything.  Will post some pics tonight of the way mine was when I took it apart.  A few differences from yours.  I guess it doesn't matter too much as long as everything fits and works ok.

[Garry]

Andy

Have not fully restored the car, it was in reasonable original condition so I had just about everything out of the engine bay and all the front end before respraying it, including all the cables, had some rust hole repair under and near the drain holes and then repaired/replaced/repainted or recad the whole shebang including a complete engine rebuild but not transmission. (it won the MBC Concourse for best engine bay this year)  I am still working my way through the interior and awaiting some more leather samples from GAHH to get a good match before going ahead with the interior that is not that bad but I have decided I will do the seats and replace the soft top, already put in new carpets.

Garry

[andyburns]

Gary it does look beautifully finished. I wish I was a bit closer.  Would be great to come and see it in person.

[bogeyman]

Garry:
I know you got the carpet from KHM.
Any reason not to use them for the leather, or are you just comparing samples?

Thanks

[Garry]

Interesting question,

I got samples from them and they are a good match but the cost is about 40% above what GAHH are offering for both the Soft Top and leather and the shipping is nearly double. so I am seeing if there is a decent match with GAHH.  if not then its KHM if so then its GAHH.  Really just a dollars thing as I have been very happy with KHM in the past but I note that many of our members also find GAHH to be good and I have seen some of their interiors and they apperar good as well.

Garry

[andyburns]

Guys,  another option which I choose was to order through Buds.  It all seems to be a bit secret squirrel but buds then farms the order back to GAHH.  They then ship it directly from the GAHH factory.  The really strange thing is that Buds can supply GAHH carpets about 20% cheaper than GAHH.  Go figure.  Bulk buying power I guess.  I also did the same with my softtop, raw leather, seat covers, new door skins, door skin covers.  All cheaper through Buds.   I have received half the order and so far all is ok.  When the next boxes arrive with the carpet I can take some pictures showing you the GAHH packing slip.  Worth a mention.  I think all up it saved me 1200 off what GAHH were will to sell it to me.   Better than a kick up the jaxy!

[andyburns]

Here is a prime example of how the restoration process can snowball.  I have been fitting up the firewall cables this afternoon after work.  I cleaned up the tach and speedometer cables and put them in place with the new firewall rubber.  All good!!!  Then I went to install the bonnet release cable.  Started looking at the grubby ends with tatty gold plating. Fitted it up and bolted it.  Then took a step back and looked at it against the new paint. Normally I would just slam it in but somehow the prospect made my guts turn.  One thing leads to another.

[dario]

Here is a prime example of how the restoration process can snowball. One thing leads to another.

Yes, Andy you're driving total renovation, which does not allow for shortcuts.
This is my first input into your thread. First of all I would like to express my congratulations and respect for the work you are doing. To be quite honest, I find in your descriptions my own feelings that were with me during my 2.5 years long restoration of my Pagoda . Later may be a better opportunity to enter once again and share them with you to support you a little.
I also enjoed your Christmas video - is great. I noticed on it, however, that the "famous" metal plate behind the grill has not been covered in satin black paint. There are a few such places to cover in black. Is this an intentional action at this point, or is it just an oversight? I'm sure you know that this is an important element to mask appearance of the body paint in this place.

Dariusz

[andyburns]

Hi Daria,  thanks for your kind words.  Would love to see some of your restoration photos.  Start up a new thread or post them in the photos section.  I never get sick of pawing over pictures.

I do know all about the blacking out of various parts of the car.  I am deliberately leaving it till late in the piece to avoid damaging it during the install.  I believe its hand brushed on at the factory and as you pointed out is applied to body paint the can be seen through the front grill, all around the air vent on the top of the dash and on the transmission tunnel behind the seats.  Any other locations you think I have missed just sing out.

I also understand that it is suppose to be hand brushed as well.  This sort of goes against the grain a little bit with me.   I think I might ignore this bit of originality in favor of getting some paint to key hard to the existing paint.  I am interested in how you applied yours.  Some photos on this would be good.  I have pawed over the motoring investments site many times looking at this . 

[dario]

Andy, I knew from the beginning that you have this knowledge. I just wanted to make sure you have not forgotten about it, starting to install first parts to the engine compartment. Mistakes happen, but now I know that everything is going according to plan.
My black inserts are made "originally", that is hand brushed as well.




Already joined pictures from my restoration in thread "New member introductions" but there is no problem to be repeated here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/dkdariodarek
In the "restoration" album in the section about suspension, you can see one picture with Monroe shock absorbers prepared to mount on the front axle ... - in reference to the previous posts of the selection of shock absorbers.

Dariusz

[andyburns]

Dario,  beautiful workmanship on your.  Hats off.  I hope I get a result approaching what you have done.  Certainly will give it my best shot.  Did you restore this car for yourself or is this your job?

[Tomnistuff]

I just made a big mistake.  I went on the site that Dario provided for his restoration photos.  Now Ì am completely depressed. To restore my car to that level (all the tiny detail) would take me an extra year and another $50,000 US.
Congratulations, Dario, on your magnificent restoration.
Tom Kizer

[dario]

Thank you both for your kind words about my work. Tom, I'm sure that you bring your work to a happy end sooner than you think. Andy, to avoid clutter up your thread I will answer briefly the question. This car I made ​​for myself, my job is something else. Everything as a hobby and love to the beautiful old design and engineering. The second project I would do now cheaper, faster and more accurately. Of the approximately 50 people who I met on the project, I would like to continue to work with five, maybe seven. The rest is a market rubbish.
Analyzing your pictures, the quality of which you restore your car is absolutely top. Additionally you mount everything personally. In my opinion there's not half of the work left, but less than a one third. And the most pleasant, when you start to see results.

Dariusz

[Lg]

DIFFICULTY LEVELS

Having finally plucked up the courage to " Cost " my 230 SL Automatic project, its been disheartining to read this thread. As a rank amateur, and a hopeless novice ...I will recount the history of this project I bought whilst, on a trip to Ohio, from England. It was way back in  1988, that I noticed an Ad for this 230sl ( RHD), placed by the widow of an Airman serving with the US Airforce, stationed near Ipswich England. He had taken his car back to Ohio, and his family had attempted an awful restoration ....resulting iin a fire that damaged the vehicle. To cut a long story short, i did buy the car, which had suffered damage to the hood ...but was drivable. I drove the car ,and after a 3 day trip, with intermittant and constant problems with the fuel injection .... finally made it to New Jersey .... My mistake, was becoming more apparent by the day ..and i proceeded to have the car shipped back to the UK, as i just could not find a buyer. I have had it sat in my garage, since that time! Each decade, my reluctance to commence the project, was on account of this cost deficit. The restoration cost far exceeded its market worth, and more importantly the possible damage to my finances!!

As i read the 900 man hours it would take to restore the body of the car .... at £ 20 to £25 an hour ...that equates to £22,500 .... Parts, and further work to the engine, gearbox would be about the same? Not that i have ever had the desire to sell .... I need to have these guesstimates confirmed. The Car has history with the Merc dealer in England upto 60,000 miles ...and I now have a car that had a confirmed 75,000 miles on the clock. The soft top is like new ...the BecKer Radio and all the instruments are insitu .... Corrosion is extensive around the sills ..and the damaged hood, and front end needs a complete new set of parts.

My landed cost was $6500 ..... a sum that has long been written off. Many dealers have made demands to break her up, and cannibalise the Car ... Not me .....I am about to retire ...and sinking funds for a deserved cause, motivates me .... Or is it a foolhardy venture?

Lg ( North England )

[andyburns]

Hi Lg, 

The reason my restoration has taken so long is due to my lack of professionalism.  I am sure it would have taken half the time if its was done by a skilled tradesman.  In saying that these cars are now very expensive to restore. 

The parts are not cheap which is why the only way I could ever dream to get this back on the road was to have a crack at restoring everything possible.  If I had gone off an replaced all the part with new ones the labor costs would have reduced significantly.  If I had paid someone else to restore all my parts it wouldn't have been economical as well.  I have leveraged off my free labor.  If you have a lot of time on your hands and are keen to learn then I would say that its achievable.  You have to be committed.  If you start pulling these apart and then loose interest you are in a bit of trouble. 

I think also looking at the soaring prices of 113's that even if you spent 50k on yours it would probably still be a good investment.  Another very important aspect is how good is the body.  Its where all the time and money is in my opinion.  If you have a largely rust free body your probably in a good position.  Mine was fairly good but still required quite a bit of time and effort to sort out. 

Why dont you post some photos of your car in the photo gallery and ask all the members here what they think.  There are people in here with a life time of knowledge about these cars.  My experience only goes back 12 months so I am still on a very steep learning curve with these and may not be the best person to direct your questions to.  I am more than happy to help if I can but would hate to steer you in the wrong direction with bad advice.

At the end of the day if you love your car and want to restore it to keep for the rest of your life then I would say go for it.   

[andyburns]

Nightmare with New Zealand Customs

For the past couple of days I have spent hours battling my latest issues.  This time its not with the car but New Zealand Customs department.  My shipment of interior parts, well over 7k into total, have now been delayed for week due to a slip up that Bud made on the packing slips.  Initially they boxed everything into two cartons, the smaller of which made its way to me with no problems as all.  The second just vanished into the ether.  

Finally I went back to David at Buds and discovered it was sent back to him from the US postal service with a note explaining it was too big.  He split the box in two and sent the on their way.

When they finally turned up in New Zealand a week or so they were for some reason held by Customs.  Being xmas customs is totally inundated with incoming xmas boxes as you would expect.  As such I spent a good 45 minutes on the phone just trying to get through to find out what was up with the shipment.  Don't you love those corny jingles they play on answer phone systems.  After about the 15'th loop I was almost ready to slit my wrists.

When I finally got to speak to someone it all became clear.  Buds in had inadvertently messed up the manifest on each box and instead of itemizing what was in each box and working out an appropriate value had just slapped the entire order manifest duplicated on each of the two boxes.  So from customs perspective the boxes instead of being 1500US each were now 7000US each.  That pushed the shipment from their perspective into a commercial classification and now required me to get a customs broker involved to clear the shipment.

I explained the situation to a very unsympathetic Customs officer who promptly explained that I would need to pay the tax on the indicated 14k and seek a refund when I could prove that a mistake had been made.  Great, just what I needed.  I got off the phone and explained to my 9 year old daughter, who had been sitting and watching the pained expressions on my forrid,  that santa might not be so generous this year.

I decided not to give in an spent a couple of hours yesterday on the phone with customs.  After speaking very politely to a couple of their team I hit the jackpot and got through to a very nice lady who seemed open to a bit of sweet talk.  Within 10 minutes we had agreed on a sensible amount of tax to pay and a new invoice was issued and paid.  Instead of 14k I now only had to shell out 1500 which made my daughter, and Santa, very happy campers.

So fingers crossed I will have my full interior all sitting ready for the fit out safely in my garage.

Just another example of the degree to which these restorations can test your patience. The order process through to getting all this gear safe and sound has been quite a major exercise in its own right and not one to underestimated.
 

[Larry & Norma]

Phew!!

[Dave H]

To answer LG,s question on the cost of a restoration the answer is you
Get what you pay for .... When you decide on a full 18 month restoration
As opposed to a running refurbishment it's a whole new ball game.
You will go to bed and wake up thinking About the car ... Ask Andy !
It will either make you or break you but you won't get much change out
Of £50.000 UK .... That's if you have the skills to do the work yourself
To the required level. if you have Rust stick a other £20.000 on top.
You get what you pay for with these cars...
I am the tightest man I know with money but these are the sums I
Will eventually have spent restoring mine to levels approaching
Darios,s car. This is on top of a £25,000 purchase price.
I'm not going to break even but I am loving every minute of the journey.
If I had farmed out a lot of the work I would have been looking at figures
Even higher .To restore these cars in the UK to anything like the standards
Motoring investments or Brabus knock out  you would need very deep
Pockets.... The € 200000 price tags are there for a reason and it allows these
Profesional Restorers to go the extra mile.
Just my 2 pence worth .hope you enjoy the journey as much as I am.
Dave

[andyburns]

It finally feels like Xmas.  This morning I slept in and was awoken by my wife offering me a nice cuppa coffee.  Half way through the coffee she announced that 'Santa had something for me under the tree'.  The mailman had come and finally delivered my 'Missing in Action' interior boxes.  Needless to say I didn't finish my coffee.  Still sitting here cold and half finished on the bedroom side table.

I did contemplate waiting to xmas morning to open the boxes but my excitement got the better of me. 

All in all I am absolutely over the moon with the product.  GAHH gear is awesome.  Will go into the reasons in my next post.

I do have one problem I need some advice with.  They were told I had an early 230sl and I instructed David at Buds to ensure I got the correct bottom seat pad to suit.  What I have been sent I am not so sure.

Looking at the seats I took out of the car they match up with the supplied seat covers but the seat pads have a asymmetric scollop cut out of the side of them.  I have done some searching on the site but cant find a definitive answer. 

Using my common sense I think the seat pad is going to need building up to remedy the situation.  I will ask David to see if I actually got the correct pad but thought I would throw it up here and see if any of you guys can shed some light.

Other than this problem the seat covers look amazing with quite lovely precise craftsmanship in the sewing and construction.  I guess the proof is in the fitting.  I think looking at the construction I will give fitting these a go as well.  It really looks as if you cant go wrong with no additional sewing required.

[Garry]

Andy,

There were two types of seats for the 230SL that GAHH sell.  First was the straight sided base  and the second was the one with the scollop out of the outer side.
 I believe they are known in the GAHH catalogue as A Type for Straight and B Type for the scolloped one.  You may have only got the straight type and need the scolloped type.

I have just ordered a set and specified Type B

Garry

[andyburns]

Hi Garry, thanks for the reply.  Did you mean to say that I got the scollop sided base but needed the straight?  I am assuming that the seat covers are also come in version A and B and are different to reflect the scallop as well.  If so I cant quite cant work out why they would ship me incompatible seat cover and squab combination.  I am just clinging on to some sort of hope that I don't have to get into returning parts.

[Garry]

They have had a bet each way by sending you straight sided seat leather and the scolloped cushion.

Here is a photo of the seat in mine with the scollop for the tilt lever and knob. Mine is a ’65.  I am not sure when they changed them either to straight or from straight. These are the leathers I am changing out after Xmas.

 Maybe someone can chime in here or hunt through the photos and see if there are any straight sided seats that will give you at least an earlier or later date for the change.

Garry