Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Jimbo1907 on May 22, 2016, 03:34:06
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I have been thinking about doing the seats over in my 1969 280SL. My car is 571 red metallic with a cognac interior, rather well worn. Bud's Benz wee kind enough to send me a sample of the cognac leather that they have (they are a vendor for GAHH interiors) but it doesn't match what is in the car. The only way would be to put an entire interior in, which it doesn't need- the door cards, dash, etc, are quite good. Any suggestions? I am thinking about trying to find a place under the seat where I can snip off a sliver of the existing leather and see if they have anything that matches. Any suggestions from folks who have already dealt with this would be appreciated.
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Hi,
If you are picky about the color and texture match of new vs original two-tone cognac leather, I don't think anything available on the market will make make you completely satisfied.
Some of the newer cognac leather I've seen is getting real close to the original, but
On a side by side comparison the are aleways slight differences in color of the "dots"
or texture etc.
If you want perfection a complete new interior using the best twotone cognac leather available is your best option.
If I can be proven wrong that would be great news, but so far every repro cognac sample I've looked at for the last 20+ years have had "issues".
Regards
Hans
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I agree with Hans, a match will be very difficult. You could try getting a sample from Cabrio.de another German supplier who are happy to send out samples and sell only part pieces rather than the whole interior.
Garry
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I agree with what has been said. Not as good as the original. But I think all new leather for these cars have issues compared to the original. Having a Cognac leather interior, I wish mine was a solid color. Yes, the two color is beautiful. But the spots will wear away leaving the base color. You have to be careful not to scrub with anything abrasive, else the spots will wear. And in the sun, the spots will oxidize away over time.
I have a 1960 coupe with the original red leather interior and, oh my, is it high quality. It has some beauty marks, but it will take some doing before I take it out. What a shame they can't produce that level of quality anymore.
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Have you considered repairing the leather rather than replacing. Services such as http://www.furnitureclinic.co.uk/Leather_Car_Interior_Repair_Restoration.php
Can enable you to refresh the interior while maintaining the quality of materials that you currently have.
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Try Miller's for you upholstery needs. I purchased a complete interior kit from them, including carpets and was very pleased with the results. It was expensive but well worth the results. Get your vehicle's data card from the guys at the MB Classic Center so you can be sure of the interior color code and its name to order the correct one. Sometimes people confuse brown color shades such as cognac, bamboo and palomino, and the code from the data card helps.
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When I bought my leather, Miller's used GAHH. I think it is the best currently, but still not as good as the original. Miller's is a good company to deal with.
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I bought my leather from World Upholstery. I have been very happy with the color and results - however I think we are overlooking the problem with matching original leather. It's impossible 50 years later to tell what color it was originally. Mine had become almost a red looking finish when I replaced it. On the plus side, I bought different parts at different times and they all matched perfectly.
Gerry
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There are areas where the leather is completely covered by a trim piece or panel. In those places you can see exactly what the original color was. I just restored the entire dash and there many such places. The base hide color is similar but the cognac paint was more red than the brown it is now. That's not even my biggest complaint which is that the new has less texture and the hide is softer and not as durable as the original.
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There are areas where the leather is completely covered by a trim piece or panel. In those places you can see exactly what the original color was. I just restored the entire dash and there many such places. The base hide color is similar but the cognac paint was more red than the brown it is now. That's not even my biggest complaint which is that the new has less texture and the hide is softer and not as durable as the original.
While you are certainly correct about the protected areas, that doesn't help when trying to match parts that show now. In other words, if you are replacing part of the interior and trying to match other parts it just doesn't matter what you started with. I don't think it's workable. FWIW, my new leather has more texture than the original although it hasn't been nearly long enough to know about durability in the long run.
Gerry
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however I think we are overlooking the problem with matching original leather. It's impossible 50 years later to tell what color it was originally.
This is what I was addressing. You can tell what it was originally by looking at the hidden areas. If you are trying to match 50 year old exposed, faded leather, not sure how you would go about that.
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Jim,
If you are trying to match 50 year old exposed, faded leather, not sure how you would go about that.
Very hard to solve this problem. Nearly impossible with "new leather".
If the repair sections of your old cognac are not too bad, try to find used replacement leather e.g. from a contemporary sedan (W108 or W109).
If you dislike that idea what you can also do is to find some (new) bamboo leather, which has virtually the same basic color as cognac - just without the red/brown dots.
Everything else (ageing of the new leather, adding the dots, etc.) would have to be done separately.
Good luck ! ;)
Achim
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I just received my leather seats and door covers from World - Cognac color. The leather quality and sewing looks top notch.
I had the original MB Tex interior but decided I wanted to go to leather. I was aware that in 69 with seat type 5a (from page 24 of Pogoda World magazine issue 18 2016), the MB Tex took on a coarser grain and fine pinhole pattern in the pleats. The leather did not change from prior years in 69, so my seats will look very different. I attached a picture of one of the leather door panels and a piece of MB Tex they shipped along with it (not sure why??) They are vastly different. The Tex does not match the original, and the leather does not appear to me to have the "red dots" which I thought it was supposed to have. It is much more uniform like it is bamboo instead of cognac. Can any one tell me if this looks right? Do I have bamboo?
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That is odd , it almost looks like they took a electronic scan and blended both the colors. The original I do believe was Bamboo base with a roller of darker brown dye on top that colored the peaks. I have seen some people try and duplicate using a sponge, which looked ok from far away but as soon as you got close it was not correct. I would reach out to them , I do not feel in anyway that is acceptable.
Bob
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Hello Jimbo,
Did you see this post in the items for sale section?
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=25461.0
May be helpful
Good luck,
James
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Jimbo,
On second thought, after re-reading, they are original Style, not original.
James
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Looking at your leather sample, I believe that it is Cognac. The new leather material has the "red" dots but... it is darker than the original and is way more subtle. It kinds of flows in waves and you will have areas that have more red and some areas with not much. Inconsistent. I have exposed original cognac that was hidden on my W111 that I compared to the leather I got from GAHH. The new leather also isn't as stiff nor does it have as deep a grain pattern as the original. The sheen is also satin where as the original had more shine.
Nope, the new stuff is no way as good. That is why original leather interiors in good shape are so highly prized. Leather of that quality for auto interiors will be hard to find or $$$$$.
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.... and the leather does not appear to me to have the "red dots" which I thought it was supposed to have. It is much more uniform like it is bamboo instead of cognac. Can any one tell me if this looks right? Do I have bamboo?
Quite clear that you do not have an acceptable "cognac" leather. Most vendors will sell you what you received, some offer two types where one is a better approximation. For example, GAT has a #15 that looks like yours and a #18 that is better: https://www.germanautotops.com/mercedes-leather-1955-1971
However, the good news is that John at GAT recently also sourced a much better leather for oldtimer cars! :)
The price is almost double but IMO it is worth the extra cost.
The armrest on my 1964 230SL had split seams and the leather was so brittle that it could not be fixed. I sent the old leather to John and asked him to match it. That is when he informed about the new source and I must say it is an excellent match to the old leather on the door panel! It even has the yellow/tan color of the original on the back side and is nice and subtle.
He also sent me a sample of the "cognac" colored leather and as the photo demonstrates it also is an excellent match.
Unfortunately he has not had time yet to update his web site so you need to call him if you want this "oldtimer leather".
Wallace, if you read this, the sample is on its way to you!
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Here's a picture of "250-Cognac Leather" from a 58,000 miles 1972 280 SE 4.5. It will be difficult to replicate from today's offerings.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2vcud5v.jpg)
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All I have to say about the new "Old Timer" series of leather is - WOW! I received a sample today and it is very close to the original. Correct color of dots, correct pattern, correct semi gloss sheen and correct grain depth. And the surface is tough just like the old stuff. Well worth the extra cost in my opinion.
The current standard leather just can't come close to meeting the quality and correct look of the cognac Old Timer.
Wallace