Taking stock of the Pagoda SL Group

[Peter van Es]

A new month, a new set of statistics...

Please look at the attached ZIP file which contains a PDF file which gives statistics on the use of our website.

We see a slight increase in numbers in January over December, and a small reduction in February, due to the shorter month. We have a fairly consistent number of visitors per day, of around 600-700. The average number of pages viewed per visit is 17, which is very, very high for any website.

The US is by far the largest location of our visitors. The Russian numbers are distorted -- look at the number of visits versus pageviews, this indicates largely one page viewed per visit. This is caused by many Russian robots aiming to register to post Forum spam. As new members know, two months ago I introduced a new Captcha (a software device that requires a small puzzle to be solved before people can register) which has proved very effecive and cannot yet be solved by these robots. Even better, every time someone solves the puzzle, he/she helps to digitize books.

Our English language does show in that after the US, the largest audience is the UK, then Australia and then Canada... other native languages fall far short of these numbers. The Netherlands are in fact the first non-English speaking country.

Another interesting tidbit is that in January I reported that in December 10% of our users use a Macintosh -- in February this increased to 14%. Internet Explorer is still on the decline.

Richard Madison's site is now linking to us, and that has given us 86 referrals. Still there are very few sites that link to us, and we need to encourage more to make us more successful. I would like to ask every member to try and get at least one web-site (of a local car club, another relevant forum you post on, or your private home page) to link to us...

Then onto our own heartbeat:

• We still have around 2.18 new members register each day (67 in November, 46 in December, 55 in January, 67 in February)
• About 33 new posts are made each day
• We currently have 1446 members
• We grew from 249 Full Members at the end of December to 265 at the end of February, an increase of 16 members... So don't delay, join TODAY!

Peter

[Peter van Es]

End of April, time for new statistics. I changed to Google Analytics, and attached is the report. Makes for interesting reading... One key thing these Google Analytics reports allow me to do is to fine tune the site so that we get found more often. It also allows Google to recognise that when people find us with a certain search term, and then read many pages on our site, they increase our site's relevance in the index. As a result you'll see (on p4) our Search Engine visits go up slowly during the month...

Other things to note:

• our bounce rate is around 24%... that means that 24% of all visitors go away after seeing just one page. For most websites, the bounce rate is over 50%. It means that (a) we get found by people who are looking for stuff on Pagoda's, and (b) our content is compelling
• 60% of traffic is direct, i.e. from people who've bookmarked us
• people on average read over 10 pages per visit, and spend about 8 minutes on the site. These are pretty exceptional figures by any standard
• in April we had 5102 unique visitors. We have 1615 registered users today... it means that still over 3000 unregistered visitors look at us... would there really be that many Pagodas out and about?
• Check the Goals Overview (p5). It tracks how many people register (Goal 1) and how many people actually pay us (Goal 2 - for renewal or joining). In April we had 124 new registrations and 49 payments (= $1470). The monetary value does not mean that much, since I mistakenly also awarded a value to a Registration ($3, on the premise that one out of 10 registrations becomes a full member) but later on I corrected that mistake.
• The map overlay (p6) shows where our traffic comes from... to those outside of the US: we must do better!

Anyway, I hope you find this interesting!

Peter

[Benz Dr.]

All intersting thoughts.

A stand alone convention is possible without MBCA participation providing we have enough people show up. 20 cars or more would be a good number with at least 75 people in attendance. There would be nothing wrong with inviting the local chapter to come out if they wish as I've seen at several 190SL Group conventions.
They have a hand book set up which outlines what a host should do to organise an event.
The 190SL Group expects their members and guests to pay their own way through a registration fee for rooms and other exspenses. The group will under write the convention if something goes wrong but the host is expected to present a budjet to the BOD and sits in on quarterly meetings for a full year before convention. Their report is on the board agenda. It's not done half assed or anything.

If the 113 Group wishes to pay for anything ( sponsor ) at PUB then they could get a hospitality suite for those in attendance. This isn't a new idea as I've brought this up several times since the last PUB and while I was there two years ago. I think a lot of people would be happy to mingle after the days events if they had a place to go. Asking somone to open up their own room is a second option but I'd advise against it.

The web site:
It's very good, everyone says so. The site is part of the club in terms of ownership but I thnk some people may not be aware that we even have a club. Since there are a lot of internet web sites out there with car info on them it often gets treated just like any other site by people who view it as such. But it's not, it's the club's site. Perhaps a members only forum would be the answer. We need to start thinking more about the club and what it means and maybe just a tiny bit less about the web site which is inhabited with all sorts of people - many of which have zero interst in our club or any clubs for that matter.

It's fine if you don't want to have banners and stay away from those things but that's no reason to throw vendors under the bus. We have a reputation as a club to stay away from stuff like that. It's OK for ordinary web sites with little or no control over content but it looks bad on us.

[Dash808]

the website:

Depending on the goal, some forums let the visitor browse freely throughout the site.  Most require a registration to use the search function, and then others let you see the titles or thread topics but won't let you read the posts until you register, which probably would require a payed membership. 

So it seems you can either let people use the site freely and if they feel so inclined, pay and then reap the benefits of being a full member.

Or you can restrict access and require a payed membership to use the site.   

Of course we all know it is well worth the money to become a member, but how many would commit without first sampling the wealth of knowledge of what the Pagoda Group has to offer? 

Personally I think that the way it is setup now is the best.  This way owners and prospective buyers feel welcomed and can get their feet wet first and then hopefully jump in after. 


Just curious, how much is a membership in Euro's?

[waqas]

the website:

Depending on the goal, ...

Exactly. But what is the goal? I've always thought the goal of the website was to further the aims of the club. How many of us know where we'd like the club to be in
2 years? 5 years? There are many car clubs out there, and there are many car websites... so what do we want ours to be? (I'm asking this question in earnest)

Of course we all know it is well worth the money to become a member, but how many would commit without first sampling the wealth of knowledge of what the Pagoda Group has to offer? 

Good point. The current arrangement is indeed quite nice.
A follow-up question: once the forum has been "sampled", are the newsletter and magazine sufficiently worth it to making the upgrade to full-member status? (the answer for me personally is "yes"). If not, what would it take to convince someone to become a dues-paying club member? I honestly would love to hear opinions on this from those who are not currently full-members.

Just curious, how much is a membership in Euro's?

Last I checked, Euro25 or USD30 per annum.

[Dash808]

Exactly. But what is the goal?

I don't know.  That's why I voted for you.   

[Tonys113]

Gentlemen,
I am a fairly new member of this fine forum and I can't even imagine trying to compare this group of individuals to any others like it. I have been a member of several 'American Muscle Car' Groups for may years however the knowledge base of this group is head and shoulders above any.
In comparison this really is a group of 'PURIST' and I don't mean this is a bad way at all. These cars are special and singular of purpose. Unlike many of their counterparts they are very individual and very specific. Additionally we as a group are quite spread out over a huge geographical area.
In my neighborhood, I have found only 4 other SL's in a roughly 200 mile radius. Compare this to my 66 Chevy Nova, there are several hundred in that same area and there are no two alike. With and SL you can't go down to the nearest auto parts store and buy an additional 100 horse power for $1000.00 US. You can't bolt in a new rear end in a week end or take your transmission to corner shop.
The numbers are what they are, a small (relatively) production run and highly specialized technology for its time are the cross we bare.
I have benefited greatly from the collection of posts here and the depth of the tech section and even as a certified GEAR HEAD for a very long time, my new to me '69 280 is quite challenging and very rewarding to own and work on. I thank you all.

Tony

[glenn]

Who, where, how, etc do I send my $30?   Let's all send it in. ...

[Dash808]

Look straight up and click the Profile tab, and then look to the box on the left for a link to become a full member.   

Congratulations!   

Hopefully it becomes contagious

[thelews]

I tried to organize a club event here, at Black Forest, for the Pagoda group, much as I had done for the 190 SL Group when 50 members attended.  I also recently mentioned Black Forest's quarterly MBCA tech session April 18th which was featuring the 113.  I am a regional vice-president for the 190 SL Group and have organized, as well as attended group events both social and technical.  Black Forest is a state-of-the-art Mercedes only service and restoration facility with tremendous expertise and knowledge.  To say the response to my efforts was weak would be generous.  It seems the only enthusiasm for a club event is PUB.

That said, thank you Mark and Bruce for attending the MBCA session.  I hope it was worth your trip.

Pictures of the 190 SL event in Feb. 08

[Benz Dr.]

Well John, don't feel too badly.
 Back when I was also a rep on the 190SL Group I had several events that had only a few cars show up every year. Three years ago I invited everyone and we had about 13 pagodas, 4 or 5 190SL's, 107's, 220SE/S, 6.3, 300SL, late model cars and a pre war 370S Manhiem. In all, we had about 45 cars for the afternoon show and about 100 people that day.
 This was a two day social event that included the car show, entertainment, dinner, car tour, and at stop at RM restoration along with other points of interest. We also had about 6 presidents of various MB clubs present, so I'd say that event was very good.

 ( But that's not what you shouldn't feel badly about. )
 Two years ago I went to PUB and had a pretty good time. I dragged my wife along and she was kind of bored because it's mostly for guys, ( even though there was a social aspect to it ) so I wasn't too worried about that. The drive getting there was all the excitment anyone could ask for.

 ( This IS though )
Last year I said in Jan. ( giving everyone plenty of notice ) that I was willing to have a possible summer event in July. About 3 people showed early interest by Feb. and at the end of March or early April I asked again who would be willing to commit. Although some said not to can the event, no one actually said they were willing to show up. ( Compare that ( probably unfairly ) with PUB this year and there were well over 50 on tap by mid March this year ). It doesn't leave for a very encouraging feeling wnen you can't generate interest in a big event, so by mid April I had to call it off.
 Part of hosting a weekend event calls for a lot of planning like dinners, rooms for people to stay and many other things which need to be laid out well in advance. Besides, my wife axed it anyway.... since she did most of the work for our last big event.

Now everyone will have to get a Passport to come over to Canada after June 1st but your money is worth 20% more. Other than holding the event at a convention centre to simplify some of the planning, it would be difficult to plan another.
 And, this is part of what's good, and not so good about our club. It started on the internet with mostly conversation about our cars. Now that the cars have been fully covered, nut, bolt and washer, it's more than time that we evolve into a real social club with a keen awareness of just how special our cars really are.
I know I point to the 190SL Group a lot but that's only because they have a prefect template for others to copy from. Their yearly convention includes seminars, car show and concourse, banquet/dance, car driving skillis, car tour, usually a stop at some major point of interst, and an extended car tour for anyone who wants to stay on for a few more days after the main event. These guys like to drive their cars, show them off, talk about them and simply get together and have fun. Just like our guys......

 I've estimated that there are about 100 190SL's and about 250 pagodas in Canada. That's not a lot of cars for a country of 32 million people. Makes owning either car an honour.

[Dash808]

I agree that is sad.   
Perhaps it is because the events were so close together so for most people they couldn't make two trips back to back like that.   I'm coming from Hawaii to PUB for the weekend.  Others from even further.  Maybe for a bigger turnout the events need to alternate?  PUB this year, Blackforest or Dan's event next year etc...   That makes sense to me. 
But of course there's always the possibility that I have no idea what I am talking about.

[J. Huber]

Well Dash (or Chan -- but Dash is so cool)... I was hoping you'd offer to hold the next event! A drive around the Island followed by some Pagoda Pupus?...

[thelews]

Dan (Dr. Benz), the way the Pagoda Club will a have consistent large event elsewhere than Blacklick, is if the Blacklick event starts moving around to other hosts.  PUB becomes the annual conclave with social, technical and driving fun and starts moving around the country with different hosts.  This is said with all due respect and gratitude to Joe Alexander for what he has done and does.

BTW, my technical Black Forest offer was for February.  Not the best time for cars in Wisconsin, but a nice fix for winter car guys and in no competition or conflict with PUB.

[Dash808]

Well Dash (or Chan -- but Dash is so cool)... I was hoping you'd offer to hold the next event! A drive around the Island followed by some Pagoda Pupus?...

Pagoda pupus?  Now we're talking!   I can get it arranged.  We may not learn much, but no one will leave hungry or thirsty! 

[waqas]

I don't think we need to move the Blacklick event anywhere. Remember: PUB takes place every other year, so there is plenty room for another large event to be held in the alternate year (roughly in late summer or even the fall).

As an open question, what would it take to get people out to another large event, held in the years when PUB is not held? (and varying locations; approximately a third of our members are across the pond and elsewhere).
Proximity? Scheduling? Critical mass? Types of events? (purely social vs. purely technical vs. something in-between)

[Benz Dr.]

Ah, well........ that's my point. The event that I was planning last year wasn't conflicting with PUB - it was in the off year. 3 years ago when I had my last event some of the guys from the Pagoda club came up to join us from the Sates. There were about 6 or 7 that come to mind. The rest were from the 190SL Group, MBCC, MBCA and some of my customers with family or friends.
I pretty much had to invite all of these people ( clubs ) along with the 113 Group ( which was the featured car ) to make the numbers work. If I had depended only on the club I might of had 25 people at most since some of the club members also came from Ontario and Quebec. There was 13 or 14 pagoda cars on the front lawn which I thought was a very good turn out. 25 people would have been OK, I've had less at many events over the years. However, when you decide to go over the top a bit you need numbers to make it worth while.

I think someone in the South East was talking about hosting an event next year. Haven't heard too much about that in a while. One thing is for certain though, if people continue to show limited interest in a non-tech weekend event, the club will loose out on a lot of things. Don't get me wrong. The PUB event is a fine offering and fits in well with what we do but our wives, girlfriends/significant other, kids and families will never really understand fully why we love these cars so much.
The tech event packs a lot of stuff into two or three days and the semi formal format seems to suit everyone qute well. All I know is I probably won't get the wife to go back with me as much as she enjoyed Mary's company. Rember, she was the one who did 90% of the work at my last event now really isn't all that interested in club events any more.

I could have an event every year if I wanted to. There would always be people who would come out for a one day deal. As soon as I ask the Pagoda club to come along it means only very nearby members would show up for one day. It has to be at least a two day event ( full weekend ) to make it worth while to longer distance travellers. So, from my standpoint, do I think about it or not?   

[ja17]

Hello Guys,

I must agree in many respects. Having events in other parts of the world is attractive to others also. Developing the events into well organized social and technical events requires a lot of hard work, money and a tremendous amount of time. A decent group of members would have to get involved  in the work. I have spaced the Pub event to two years so there  is plenty of opportunity.  I would always want to   attend and contribute to any gathering of the group if I am able.

PUB is bit of a mystery and curiosity to the rest of the Mercedes world. No one is quite sure why it works?
I think part of it is that our group was born on the internet as a purely technical group. We  did not develop as a social/technical car club established off the web like the MBCA, Gullwing Group, and M100 group. I have been to events and conventions  by these groups and they are superb and enjoyable. I just got back from Star Tech 2009 (MBCA biannual Tech Session) and I enjoyed it immensely.

Our biannual (PUB) meeting continues to give a maximum amount of information and the lowest amount of cost. I am sure that this is part of the picture in these difficult financial times. However the people make the event. The quality of the members and the information is clearly important.

One of the unique qualities of PUB is that is is quite informal and relaxed. We all plan to get a little greasy. The facilities are  quite modest, definitely not high tech. The emphasis is that even the basic owner can maintain and enjoy his Pagoda with basic tools, common sense, in his own home garage if he desires to do so. (Bob Possel perfect example). This is all possible because of the excellent quality of the members, the vast knowledge base and variety of Pagodas we find in our group. Our technical manual is sure to become "The Bible" of the Pagoda owner Worldwide. Our group seems to have a much more diverse age and demographic group than most of the others as a result. Everyone seems to have fun for a minimum amount of money. PUB may outgrow its Blacklick location soon or it may just run its coarse, change is normal.

My advice is that "if you build it they will come". Different events should not compete with one another but will add diversity and additional value to the group. It does not take long for the word to get around and attendance will follow. I hope to see you there and Pub 2009.

Take care,

[Bullethead]

Many good points about developing broader appeal... but several factors can limit participation in any group; location/access are the key.
Also, some of us have many other interests that can distract from single marque participation. If I make only one event per year, it's the Monterey Historics. This year we'll take our '67 911S, but it will be the first time for us to ship a car to an event and at 3000 miles from home the farthest. The Microcars South event is biannual and is in Orlando... close, but I've only gone once and never taken the little BMW. There are several FOG events for 356's in Florida... in many years of Registry membership, we've never had time to participate. The Bulli Brigade is a great group, but requires commitment for old VW bus owners to road trip from all over the state to one location... have never had the time to do it.  I used to do several track events each year with both PCA and BMWCCA but haven't made it to any the past 7. I guess my point is that social automotive events need to be local or very regional for a fairly large demographic to be successful and repeatable. Geographic location is important and can drive participation provided it's compelling enough. Proper media exposure via good PR can make a significant contribution.

Sometimes something as simple as a scenic drive and lunch or dinner as a group can be the thing that coalesces into something larger. Give spouses something more interesting than a day of tech talk.
A fun rally, for instance. But it still requires enough participants in that locality or region plus planning, communication, and the powerful abilities of a small group of people to herd cats. 
There are probably 20 (probably more) or so Pagodas in Palm Beach County. But is there were a way to identify and contact them for invitation to an event?
Crack that problem in 50 locations nationwide, and a sea-change in membership would be the result.

Just my .02 cents...

[Peter van Es]

My view is as follows:

• I'm a member of a local Mercedes-Benz club for social events... it's local, I can meet people outside of the events and build relationships with them, and have a good time. It's not necessarily about Pagoda's but about all Mercedes cars, and more about people.
• I enjoy classic car rallies and those are very social and much fun
• Whenever I travel and have the opportunity to meet Pagoda owners around the world that I met through this Pagoda SL club, I do so. I've met quite a few of you in person, and always found that enjoyable and fun
• I'm going to PUB because it is only about Pagoda's and I'll learn something there that I can't get anywhere else.

For me as a foreign member attending PUB is a pretty big deal. It involves making choices, and changing priorities (this year I moved the family summer vacation to attend), and a fair amount of money. Having PUB only twice a year I think is the right frequency but again, PUB is only possible because Joe and Mary Alexander initiate and run the event... they, and only they, organise this. To call it a Pagoda SL Group event would be unfair... it is a ja17 event!

Of our 300 or so paying members about 100 live outside of Canada / North America. The centering of attention around the internet, Pagoda Notes, and Pagoda World makes this a worthwhile community for them. Focussing too much on social events in North America / Canada may create two kinds of citizens... those who can, and those who practically can not attend. I would find that a shame.

Thats why I prefer keeping things the way they are. I encourage everyone to join a local club for socialising, and I encourage people to create events to which they invite the membership of this group... but it should not necessarily become a major part of this group.

By the way, my wife would probably not find attending PUB at all interesting, I would hazard to say...

Peter

[69280sl]

My opinion. Keep the Pagoda SL group as it is. There are many other venues and opportunities for other interests.

[Bullethead]

My opinion. Keep the Pagoda SL group as it is. There are many other venues and opportunities for other interests.

Agreed 100%... what I'm suggesting is if there's a way to identify local owners, invitation to small events make for tight-knit local/regional single-marque communities.
Everyone likes inclusion when their interests are embraced, and a larger member list is the potential result. How would one approach state or county tax offices for vehicle registration info?
Businesses must do it or my mailbox wouldn't quarterly receive dealer and service offerings for Audis and BMWs we no longer own! (my guess is they do a poor job of updating data)   
I'd be more than willing to try this approach in my small spot on the globe.

As already mentioned, making the trip to PUB is a commitment, and some of us (or our significant others) aren't likely to do it. But we would sure like to be among other
SL owners if inclusive activities were more regularly accessible. Seeing a bunch of 113s driving together anywhere shouldn't be a rare occurance, at least for the drivers.

Years ago, I found a near-perfect-one-owner 27,000 mile Volvo 1800ES; my wife commuted with it. We hadn't owned it a month before someone placed a
Volvo Sport America membership application under her wiper. Naturally, we joined.

[Benz Dr.]

Keep what 100% ?  A tech only event every other year or everything the way it is right now?

 Everyone is banking heavily on the idea that tech interst in the car will mantain and prevail above everything else. Things may have started this way but they could just as easily started in a different way. I guess it will be up to the BOD to move things along.

[Bullethead]

I retract my "100%" comment then, Dan. If the purpose of the group is purely to engage in technical forums there will be limited participation.
Enjoying these cars for what they are doesn't require membership in SAE. How many owners that have no idea Pagoda SL Group exists really care
about those things? Any enthusiast group has a core of dedicated OCD members (and we DO appreciate collection and distribution of minutia) but
most of us just want to use our cars as intended. They're comfortable tourers; let's drive 'em so they're seen... otherwise fewer folks will even know what they are.

BMW CCA puts on their annual Oktoberfest (in '92 I was their PR Director) and attendance is quite large because the location is different each year, and activities range
from gear-head only to family events plus serious TSD and fun rallies, sometimes even a track event or club race is on the bill. Shine & Show for us regular types, Concours
for the obsessed. Obviously a single model club won't draw as large an audience but there's no reason not to try a similar approach.
The demographic may be different but that shouldn't be a negative. Make it fun, and they will come.

[Garry]

The opening few quotes on our home page pretty much says it all, why we were established and our purpose in being.
QUOTE
"This site and this Group were established as a source of information relating to the Mercedes W113 cars and to help maintain, restore, exhibit, and promote the ownership and admiration of these cars among the international community of W113 enthusiasts. The Pagoda SL Group is international in that it serves all W113 owners and enthusiasts in any part of the world no matter where located."

Further into the Home page it states
QUOTE
"The purpose of the Pagoda SL Group is to facilitate the sharing of information and to encourage communication among enthusiasts related to the Mercedes W113 cars. The Club seeks to assist with the care, repair, restoration, collection, and preservation of these classic cars."  It also states that the group helps facilitate the "in-person events related to W113 Pagoda cars including car shows, technical sessions, track events, and others for W113 cars"

Its an International Group but most people who are members of this group, if lucky enough to own a Pagoda (or 2) are also members of local car clubs specifically designed for gathering and rallying, That is not the primary intent of this group. Remember some in the group will not necessarily have a Pagoda. We state that is is not a pre-requisite

It is an International community who are extremely fortunate enough to have a member (Joe and wife) who do the huge amount of planning necessary for a bi-annual gathering for exchange of information on how to's and to generally meet the others who are also part of the group.  For some it is easy to get to PUB, for others it is a major planning process that can taking a year or more to plan and a bundle of dollars to attend.  It is not only about having rallies or outings for members, a large number are so remotely spread out over the entire globe that this is not viable as a club. The forum is such that some are able to link up to have runs occasionally whether it be in USA, UK, the Continent or another remote part of the globe. Through this site I have joined up with other local Pagoda owners in my area in Australia for outings.  Gathering at PUB every two years is also demonstrating that the forum is internationally strong.

But when you get back to the stated purpose of the Group, sharing information and encouraging communication among enthusiasts for the W113, together with in-person events, then this forum already not only achieves but far exceeds its purpose 100%.

Garry