Author Topic: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?  (Read 17343 times)

rjmarco

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Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« on: March 17, 2013, 01:02:40 »
I have a 1965 230 SL.  It is painted white on the body and hard top.  My plan is to repaint the hard top in the original no. 332 dark blue per the data card.  I know that the small hub caps are supposed to be painted with the same color as the hard top.  What about the wheels themselves?  Are they supposed to match the body color which is white or should they match the hard top which will be dark blue?

Have seen some conflicting info.  Old photos suggest that the wheels should match the body color. 

FYI, I have the hub cap and beauty ring combo.  Any help or advice would be appreciated. 

Regards,

Rich
Rich
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w113dude

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2013, 01:34:15 »
Most of the wheels that I have seen were same color as the hubcaps and the roof and assuming correct.

Jordan

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2013, 02:36:54 »
As you will get conflicting information even here hopefully one of the guru's will step in.  I believe the hub cap should be hard top colour and wheels are body colour.  :-\
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

ctaylor738

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2013, 02:53:41 »
Concur with Jordan.
Chuck Taylor
1963 230SL #00133
1970 280SL #13027 (restored and sold)
1966 230SL #15274 (sold)
1970 280SL #14076 (sold)
Falls Church VA

66andBlue

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2013, 03:46:28 »
Ditto.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2013, 06:01:02 »
Thanks to all for the comments.  More welcome. 

I have found photos on the internet showing the wheels both ways.  Please see the attached. 

I find the one with the wheels painted in the dark color a good match with the white walls which my car will have.

Regards,

Rich
Rich
Alamo, CA

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2013, 06:01:46 »
Here's a photo with the other combination. 
Rich
Alamo, CA

Flyair

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2013, 07:47:40 »
For the risk of being called cheap-minded, let's be practical (if possible in the case of vintage ownership ;)): if you go with the solution shown in the last post, you will save a lot of money and trouble, as white wheels would spare you the need to buy white wall tires, that are usually more expensive and hard to get ;D
Stan
1971 280SL
2011 SL550 AMG
2011 GL
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gerster

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2013, 09:13:55 »
Here you can see the real thing.

Greetings: Ger.

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2013, 15:16:02 »
Great photo of the production line!  Thanks much.

Rich
Rich
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KevinC

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2013, 18:23:50 »

Answering the orginal question, with two-color vehicles, I tend to agree that the color of the steel wheels were always the same color as the body of the car, only the hubcaps themselves matched the top.

Now for an interesting question....we have all seen ads and brochures from MB for pagodas from "back in the day". Has anyone seen a marketing piece that includes a car with different colors on the body and hard top? Every piece I have shows body and top as the same color. 

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2013, 18:53:02 »
Hi, Kevin.

Thanks for the reply.  Seems the consensus is that the wheels should match the body color.  Here's an old MBZ ad that speaks to this point.  Now in modern times, I haven't seen any two tones.  I'm converting my car back to a two tone with white walls purely for the nostalgic look of that period and to match the original data card. 

Regards,

Rich
Rich
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Jordan

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2013, 21:19:44 »
Rich, what colour code white is your car?  My Pagoda is white (717) with a dark blue (332) hard top.  I was looking for some pictures but most I have are with the top off.  It' on now so if I get a chance I'll take a picture.  My interior is also blue (MBTex).
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2013, 22:40:41 »
Hi, Jordan.

My car is presently all white.  The data card says that it was made trim no. 220.  It originally came with the 717 papyrus white body, the 332 dark blue hardtop, and the 896 marine blue soft top.  The car was repainted by the prior owner so I can't tell whether it was done in 717 or not.  I suspect that it may have been redone in the 050 white by looking at it but really not sure.  The car came with leather and I've had it replaced recently. 

Would enjoy seeing a photo of your car.  He's one of mine as it sits in the custom shop. 

Rich
Rich
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Jordan

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 00:13:58 »
Rich, here is a picture which shows the wheels as you requested.  Hard to see the hard top colour however.  You will find that 717 white is actually whiter than 050 white.  I see you have an ivory steering wheel.  That is on my wish list at some point.  You'll have to post some pictures of your interior.

Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2013, 01:25:52 »
Beautiful, Jordan.  This is the look I'm seeking!

I had thought the 717 was darker, so maybe that's what I have after all. 

Once I get my car back from the custom shop, I'll send you photos.  It will have new seats and carpet by then.  Will also have a disguised stereo system that is separate from the Becker Europa radio.

Thanks so much!!

Rich
Rich
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pj

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2013, 03:22:35 »
Hi guys,
here's Marcus's 717 white next to my 050 white, in bright sunshine.
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2013, 05:11:16 »
Great comparison shot.  My car surely looks like the 717.  Solves a big question for me. 

Thanks much for sharing. 

Regards,

Rich
Rich
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W113SL

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2013, 17:56:32 »

DB717 is a slight variation on white. The color a very slight blue tint to it.  It is clearly different than a DB050 white.

Open your glove box door ton see an undamaged  and un-faded example of the color

W113SL

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2013, 17:58:36 »
Great suggestion!  Thanks,

Rich
Rich
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Brian in NL

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2013, 22:04:13 »
Jordan, your car and mine look like twins!  See my pic below.

Rich, I had the same question when I got my car repainted a few years ago. My conclusion was most all W113s have wheels painted the body color, but now and then you'll find one painted the top color. Hubcaps usually match the top. And it is true that some of the early MB press photos (like the one you posted along the water) show the wheel-top match.

In my case, I have a 1967 230SL in white (050) with a black top, but it had white hubcaps and wheels. My data card shows it have a white top.  The car has been in my family since 1970, so we figure the first owner had the top repainted black, but the hubcaps remained white. In the end, I liked the look of the black hubcaps and a black top, so I went with that ... data card be damned!

My suggestion: Do what you think looks best.

Brian
Brian Akre
1967 230 SL, U.S. spec, 050 White, Black top, 116 Kaviar interior, #17,030 of 48,912;
1997 SL 500 Sport, U.S. spec, 269 Tourmaline Green, Parchment interior, #145,506 of 204,940;
1991 Nissan Figaro, Emerald Green, #15,717 of 20,073;
2014 VW GTI, White, daily driver

Brian in NL

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2013, 22:08:41 »
Here's a 230SL at the Mercedes Museum that appears to have wheels painted to match the top ... in a rather unusual color combo and the extra chrome options.

Brian
Brian Akre
1967 230 SL, U.S. spec, 050 White, Black top, 116 Kaviar interior, #17,030 of 48,912;
1997 SL 500 Sport, U.S. spec, 269 Tourmaline Green, Parchment interior, #145,506 of 204,940;
1991 Nissan Figaro, Emerald Green, #15,717 of 20,073;
2014 VW GTI, White, daily driver

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2013, 22:15:31 »
Hi, Brian.

Thanks for sharing your photo with me.  I hope mine gets to look just as nice when I'm all done.  Will share photos. 

Appreciate the thoughts on the two wheel color options. 

Regards,

Rich
Rich
Alamo, CA

66andBlue

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2013, 00:51:34 »
Although wheel color = hardtop color one the car,  please, please do NOT use the car in the Mercedes Museum to prove anything, it is a "dog" when it comes to originality, as Hans in Sweden and others here have mentioned many times!  
See: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=17761.msg123940#msg123940
We should just ignore this "dog"!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 02:14:13 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Brian in NL

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2013, 14:56:53 »
66, thanks for the link to the other discussion. I knew the wheel well chrome was not original, but was unaware of the other originality "violations."  javascript:void(0);' Ive only recently jumped back into the Forum and hadn't seen those posts.  It is surprising that the MB Museum would put a car like that on display, particularly with such an interior. There are a few obvious transgressions in there as well!

This brings up a question: Is there a good source for the oval "country" badges that are period correct?  I'd like to install one now that I am about to put a retro Dutch plate once my U.S. car gets registered here.

Brian
Brian Akre
1967 230 SL, U.S. spec, 050 White, Black top, 116 Kaviar interior, #17,030 of 48,912;
1997 SL 500 Sport, U.S. spec, 269 Tourmaline Green, Parchment interior, #145,506 of 204,940;
1991 Nissan Figaro, Emerald Green, #15,717 of 20,073;
2014 VW GTI, White, daily driver

J. Huber

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2013, 04:24:24 »
Well, I too am in the 717/332 club. Interior is MB-Tex dark blue (115?) Wheel covers and hard-top are the correct blue on mine -- although I rebelled years ago and painted my wheels black. If I recall, they were a pretty dingy greyish-white so going black seemed like an improvement. Then, with the advent of Pagoda websites, I discovered they should be white to match car. Yet I have still held out...

For some reason, I like the black contrast that ties the dark dark rocker covers and the black wheels/tires together (see pic). However, this thread -- and maybe that spring fever of trying to find something to do to the car -- has me thinking about going original. Anybody want to persuade me either way? The black look is so my car for those who have known me a long time (been that way 27 years)...

The next question(s) would be how to do it? I suppose the proper way would be remove tires and powder coat? But I am a cheapskate. So I think primer and spray paint is in the cards. I could still remove tires I guess for an easier paint job but I then should probably change tires while I am at it. I have Michelins X which are great but are 10 years old now... Crud, My Spring list just got longer (and more expensive...)  :o
James
63 230SL

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2013, 13:52:30 »
Hi, James. 

Thanks for sharing your car photo with us.  Very nice.  I almost went this way with dark blue wheels but decided to stay traditional with the 717 papyrus white.  My custom shop debated powder coat vs spray paint and decided to go with spray paint in the end.  Hard top is being repainted in the 332 dark blue at the same time.  Michelin black wall tires are coming off an being replaced with white walls obtained from Coker.  Will let you know how it turns out.

Rich
Rich
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Brian in NL

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2013, 14:03:31 »
Hi James,

I have to say, I have never seen a white SL with black wheels ... but I really like it.  Mine is also white (050) and when I had it repainted a couple of years ago, I had the hubcaps painted black to match its black top.  I'm usually all for sticking with originality, but if an alteration makes it look better and you like it, go for it! I'll post a pic of mine when I get on my other computer.

Cheers,
Brian

UPDATE: Photo of my car shortly after it was repainted in Michigan, USA.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 20:49:58 by Brian in NL »
Brian Akre
1967 230 SL, U.S. spec, 050 White, Black top, 116 Kaviar interior, #17,030 of 48,912;
1997 SL 500 Sport, U.S. spec, 269 Tourmaline Green, Parchment interior, #145,506 of 204,940;
1991 Nissan Figaro, Emerald Green, #15,717 of 20,073;
2014 VW GTI, White, daily driver

J. Huber

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2013, 14:33:01 »
Really nice Brian. The crisp paint, taillights and the white steering wheel really make the black pop.

And thanks to all who complimented my car. Its a driver (and quite photogenic) -- but I always liked the two tone Pagodas. So 60's-ish...Ohhh yeaaah baby... (Austin Powers there.)


Here is one of my car's old pals which shows the 050 versus 717 a bit. (Hey George).
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 14:38:58 by J. Huber »
James
63 230SL

Brian in NL

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2013, 16:03:02 »
It's interesting the various changes that happen to a car over 40-50 years.  My car has been in our family since 1970 ... we are just the second owners, but even in its early years there were changes.  The data card shows my top originally was also white, which is why my hubcaps were white as well.  I vaguely remember my Dad telling me he thought the car had been in a sand storm in the desert of S. California (that's where I'm from) and the first owner had to repaint the roof. The evidence was the chrome strip, at the front of the roof, which was pretty badly pitted before I had it rechromed. And at some point, there was a spot where the white was showing through.

My car also has a black shift knob with a white steering wheel, which is unusual. When I had the interior updated, I had the pad on my steering wheel dyed black to match the rest of the interior, not knowing that's an originality no-no. The white pad had not aged well, turning yellowish and brown in spots, but the pad was not cracked, so I went with the dye. I like it.  At some point in the 70s, my dad had also installed the U.S. spec side lights to make it look more like a 280SL. I never liked them and had them removed and the holes patched when I repainted the car a few years ago.
Brian Akre
1967 230 SL, U.S. spec, 050 White, Black top, 116 Kaviar interior, #17,030 of 48,912;
1997 SL 500 Sport, U.S. spec, 269 Tourmaline Green, Parchment interior, #145,506 of 204,940;
1991 Nissan Figaro, Emerald Green, #15,717 of 20,073;
2014 VW GTI, White, daily driver

scubadoc

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2013, 02:57:49 »
While not original, my wheels match the hardtop, but the hubcaps match the body.  It is a subtle look that I think works well especially in the white/red combo.  Check out the pic in the new member intro
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=529.0;attach=19911

ptooner

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2013, 01:50:12 »
Well, I too am in the 717/332 club. Interior is MB-Tex dark blue (115?) Wheel covers and hard-top are the correct blue on mine -- although I rebelled years ago and painted my wheels black. If I recall, they were a pretty dingy greyish-white so going black seemed like an improvement. Then, with the advent of Pagoda websites, I discovered they should be white to match car. Yet I have still held out...

For some reason, I like the black contrast that ties the dark dark rocker covers and the black wheels/tires together (see pic). However, this thread -- and maybe that spring fever of trying to find something to do to the car -- has me thinking about going original. Anybody want to persuade me either way? The black look is so my car for those who have known me a long time (been that way 27 years)...

The next question(s) would be how to do it? I suppose the proper way would be remove tires and powder coat? But I am a cheapskate. So I think primer and spray paint is in the cards. I could still remove tires I guess for an easier paint job but I then should probably change tires while I am at it. I have Michelins X which are great but are 10 years old now... Crud, My Spring list just got longer (and more expensive...)  :o

I don't recall the codes off hand, but my 65 is ivory with a dark brown top and Cognac leather interior.  My wheels are the color of the body and hubcaps match the top.  A couple of years ago I replaced the tires with whitewalls but mounted them inside out.  I have now decided I'm going to switch them to whitewall and that makes it a perfect time to repaint the wheels.  I intend to mask and vasoline the tires and spray the wheels with paint that a shop near me can digitally match to the body color.  Then when the paint dries I'll have the tire shop switch the tires so the whilte walls will be out and the side of the tires with the overspray will be reversed. 

Gerry

gerster

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2013, 08:43:14 »
I found an Original Press release of the W113 with 2 pictures in it of the 230SL and it seems that the wheels are black painted and not the body color!
It's difficult to see because they are black/white pictures.

rjmarco

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2013, 05:32:39 »
Here's an update on my project.  I had the wheels repainted in white to match the body, added white wall tires, new chrome trim rings, and repainted hub caps in the MBZ dark blue.  The look is very attractive.  The hard top is also being painted in the dark blue.  This will restore the car to the original look per the data card. 
Rich
Alamo, CA

JamesL

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2013, 06:52:58 »
Very smart indeed. Looks great
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

KevinC

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Re: Wheel color - match body or hard top color?
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2013, 20:52:54 »
Very nice.