Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: thelews on April 01, 2010, 22:44:08
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Well, as many of you may know, I have Michelin Energy 205/70-14 tires on my car that are 12 years old. I think it's time for new tires and I think I'm sold on the Vredestein Sprint Classic 185 HR-14, H rated tire.
When I went to www.blackforestllc.com to discuss the matter, my Vredestein dealer and MB Classic Service Facility, Michael, the owner, showed me original 113 size Vredestein 185 HR-14 tires with a curbing rib on them. VERY classic looking tire, cool period curbing rib and classic tread pattern. As he had both 185 and 205 tires mounted side by side I could easily see the size and profile difference...not much. So, I think I'm sold. It also helped that my good, car enthusiast friend/dealer was there and said "ya gotta get these tires, John!"
But then Michael ratcheted up the ante, he has four 185 HR-14s mounted on wheels and suggested I mount them on the car and drive with them for awhile. If I like them, great, he'll mount new tires on my wheels and I can just come back and have them switched at the shop. This is an offer for any customer who would like to try them out. Now the kicker...the 185 HR-14 with the curb rib is $120/tire. The 205/70-VR14 w/o a curb rib is $200/tire. Who am I to complain about saving $320 on a set of tires if I like them?
I told Michael we've been having a tire discussion on the forum and that there seemed to be a consensus regarding the difficulty of finding an H rated original size tire for the Pagoda at a reasonable price and that Vredestein has a reputation of being expensive. He suggested he offer his entire line of Vredestein Sprint Classics that he carries to the Pagoda SL Group.
I'm posting his sizing and pricing of both H and V rated tires for both the 113 and 121 models, if anyone has an interest. I have no interest in this and all communication should be with Black Forest and Michael. I'll report on how the tires are with pictures when I have them on the car. I'm also having another little something done to report on, but that's another story!
John
Here is the special pricing for W113/121 owners.
Black Forest...414-228-4899 / Michael
Vredestein Sprint Classic, 175 HR-14 List $182.00 Special $120.00
Vredestein Sprint Classic, 185 HR-14 (With correct curbing rib) List $185.00 Special $120.00
Vredestein Sprint Classic, 195/70 VR-14 List $313.00 Special $190.00
Vredestein Sprint Classic, 205/60 VR-13 List $212.00 Special $150.00
Vredestein Sprint Classic, 205/70 VR-14 List $322.00 Special $200.00
Vredestein Sprint Classic, 6.40/7.00 SR-13 (With correct curbing rib) List $182.00 Special $115.00
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John
I just sent you a PM.
Thanks
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Geez, John, I thought I was the one who convinced you to switch - oh well :)
Now I know where to go when I replace the 205s on my '70
Thanks!!
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Geez, John, I thought I was the one who convinced you to switch - oh well :)
Now I know where to go when I replace the 205s on my '70
Thanks!!
Well, I don't want oversized donuts on my car! Just so they don't look like training wheels, like some I've seen.
Seriously, side by side, the 185 Vredesteins weren't a whole lot less of a tire than the 205. The Vredestein profile is more aggressive and beafy looking. So, we'll see when they're on the car. I'll post pictures.
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I have the Vrendenstein 185 Sprint Classic tires on my 250 SL and I love them. I think I paid $136 each, free shipping from tiresbyweb. I disagree regarding the comparison w/ 205 tires -- when I looked at them side-by-side I thought that the 205s looked huge next to the 185s (and huge in a not attractive way). Very happy with them.
Scott
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I have the Vrendenstein 185 Sprint Classic tires on my 250 SL and I love them. I think I paid $136 each, free shipping from tiresbyweb. I disagree regarding the comparison w/ 205 tires -- when I looked at them side-by-side I thought that the 205s looked huge next to the 185s (and huge in a not attractive way). Very happy with them.
Scott
Do you have the curb rib on yours? Picture?
To be honest, I was in a rush when I saw the two sizes side by side and didn't give it the full detailed analysis. I guess what I was thinking is that the 185 looked strong and full enough by comparison, that I wouldn't suffer disappointment in not having the look of my 205s.
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Do you have the curb rib on yours? Picture?
To be honest, I was in a rush when I saw the two sizes side by side and didn't give it the full detailed analysis. I guess what I was thinking is that the 185 looked strong and full enough by comparison, that I wouldn't suffer disappointment in not having the look of my 205s.
I think that the 185 is the right size to go with. Yes, the tires have the rub strip. The Vredenstein Sprint Classic tire has the rub strip, the Vredestein Sprint + does NOT have the rub strip so make sure you order the one you want. Pictures below.
Scott
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Is there a way to get these 185s with the wide ww??
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Not from Vredestein. For white walls with the rub strip, try the Coker "Phoenix" reproductions.
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Is there a way to get these 185s with the wide ww??
Is there a way to talk you out of it? :)
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On anything but the darkest of colors, I think blackwalls are no issue. And, on the dark colors, you get that EXTRA German Teutonic vintage look. Real manly.
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John, what brand tires are on your 190sl?
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John, what brand tires are on your 190sl?
Embarrassed to say, Kumho Solus. I use them for driving, not show. Very smooth and fine for the car. Didn't have the Vredestein choice at that time or probably would have done that.
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The Solus is not a bad tire at all. I like the smooth look of the sidewall. The vredesteins could use some smoothing out of the sidewalls. In fact that is one of the things I am not in too happy about is the look of the sw.
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the Michelin 185x14 with kerb strip are without doubt the best looking.
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But can you still buy them?
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First impressions of the Vredesteins [Vredestein Sprint Classic, 185 HR-14 (With correct curbing rib)]...Great! I like the look on the car, fills the well, but has a less "inflated" look than the 205s. However, the car steers much better...quicker, more movement from less input at the steering wheel. Feels like it should. I'm a believer and convert from 205s. Now I'll probably have to put them on my 190 SL. I'll take some pics tonight.
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I'm just in the process of sourcing Vreds over here. Pirelli P4000 on now, but can't seem to find them, so thinking of ordering 2 Vreds to replace a puncture and a tire of indeterminate provenance. Anything I should be aware of with regards configuring 2 Pirelli/2 vredestein set up?
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I wouldn't mix two different sidewall and tread designs on the same car, much less mix two older, harder tires and two newer, softer tires. The handling can be suddenly unstable in a pinch. For safety's sake, if two tires need replacing, do all four!
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Mike
I like the point you make, but in a "pinch" each tire has a different load anyway so is it a safety issue that you don't have identical tires, or is the safety issue the reliability of each tire on its own? I'm asking, I don't know...
Drew
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The safety issue is that the adhesion limits of of dissimilar tires can upset the balance of handling of the car. While it it true that each tire will likely have a different load during a stress maneuver, there is little point in aggravating the imbalance of load by adding an imbalance of adhesion to the equation. This is the main reason why it is recommended to fit four snow tires to your car for winter driving, rather than just two.
The only accident I ever had in a sports car was at 25-30 mph on dry tarmac, when swerving to avoid a dog darting from between two parked cars. My MGB had a pair of new Michelin ZXs on the front and a pair of older Semperit Favorits on the back. The car did a 360 and came to rest on a telephone pole on the opposite side of the road. It was an expensive lesson.
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Pictures
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and more...
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Track
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They look great, John.
All these cars look best as they were born, especially yours.
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Mike Hughes
You will be glad to know I opted to buy four new Vred Sprint Classics. Thanks for your advice! BTW, I used www.eiretyres.com which are part of a Europe wide outfit called www.delti.com, delivered within 5 days at 91EUR per tire, almost 20EUR cheaper than the next best quote I could get in Ireland
Drew
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All these cars look best as they were born, especially yours.
Hmm...as they were born??
MINE was born, according to my data card, with white wall tires. And in countless renderings and drawings of the W113 I have from the personal collection of Paul Bracq, which includes many W113 variants never built as well as blueprints, etc. we should note that without exception, the W113 is presented with white wall tires. Here is but a small sample...
So, we know that many here do not like white wall tires, and that's fine. But a large number of US cars "were born" with them, and the stylist/designer Mr. Bracq always rendered this car with them.
Therefore I offer that this car was not meant to have blackwall tires exclusively, and indeed based upon renderings of the designer a strong case could be made for large whitewall tires...
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To satisfy you, Michael, Vredestein are going to offer white wall tryes.
They already make the 165x15 for Porsches.
14" ones will follow soon, the man at Essen said.
naj
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...and I am happy that Mr. Vredestein will satisfy MY desire for whitewalls. Wait, am I the only one? ;)
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The whitewall tire looks very weird.
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The whitewall tire looks very weird.
Maybe because of the size? Is that the 165/15? I hope that the 185/14 will look more normal.
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Every time I bought new tires for my 230sl I would come to pick up the car only to find that my new tires were mounted black side out, Even though I always would ask for white sides out, I would even hand write "White Sides Out" on the work order. Every time I had to make them remount the tires.
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Maybe because of the size? Is that the 165/15? I hope that the 185/14 will look more normal.
I think the look would better be described as "crap" :o I think they need to go to WW school!
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I think its due to a close shot from a wide angle lens.
not a fan of wws
naj
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Maybe because of the size? Is that the 165/15? I hope that the 185/14 will look more normal.
No, because the whitewall is on the outer perimeter of the tire rather than the inner.
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ya, now see what you mean.
naj
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Naj, will they be keeping the rub strip when they add the ww?
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Sorry, didn't ask that question ???
naj
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But can you still buy them?
Yes, in the UK, although i notice that they have gone up to £199 each. I will bring a fresh set over on my car when I ship it over and keep the older ones ( two years ) in the trunk.
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Hello Paulr,
I think you have been quoted the wrong price for the Vredestien Sprint Classics (including outside ridge) at £199.
These tyres are available through www.mytyres.co.uk for £70 including delivery and vat.
The tyres are sent from Germany to a UK address and the delivery was first class.
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it is the Michelin mxv-p 185 x14. I have these and they have the rub strip. They look and drive beautifully.
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I put a set of the Sprint Classics on last month and then went on a 1500 mile road trip. They worked great. I also think they look great. They don't have the whitewall like the original tires but they still look and drive great.
Tom Heacock
66 Havana Brown w/Cognac int and beige top.
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I still have 4 new and unmounted Michelin MVX-P 185-14 tires for sale. Cost $324 each. any reasonable offer considered.
ljg
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Is there a way to get these 185s with the wide ww??
I recently replaced my Pirelli's with the Phoenix 185HR14 reproductions (white walls) and they've been great. The only minor complaint is the rub strip is smaller than on the original (I can tell from my spare). They drive really well. I probably would have gone with the Vred's if I were in the market for black walls.
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But can you still buy them?
yes. After some dithering about sizes, I have replaced the Michelin MXV-P that were worn with the same. They drive beautifully, look just right and they just feel correct.
I wouldn't use anything else. They are £200 each but whats that on a car the would sell for £50000 ?...if I were to sell it.