Member Feedback

[Douglas]

It's only been a few short months for this club and this site, but these are very important, formative months. We'd like to know what you think so far. Please share your thoughts with us so we can understand what members want.

[Jonny B]

As a new owner of a 113 (April 2003) I have found this to be an excellent source of information. It is fun to learn more about the car, and to be able to make some initial small contributions, and to realize just how much there is to learn. It should be a fun journey. Right now, I have to say I like the way the forum, etc are organized. The search function has been especially helpful.
Jonny B.
1967 250SL

[dwilli3038]

I have found this club extremly helpful. I have received good information from the forums. I believe the eforts to develop good technical information for the members will only cause this club to increase its value as time goes on. "Pogoda World" was a most pleasent surprise. I expected much less.

I do like the way that we are getting together for meets and technical sessions. I am even getting used to logging in and looking through the various topics rather than having the convinience of the old YAHOO group e-mailing all post to me. Our board deserves so much  credit for what they have acomplished in such a short time!

THANK YOU!!!!

Daryl
'64 230 SL

[Ricardo]

I'd have to agree that this site is working very well for me. I'm on a dial up connection (rural) and even though I often have to work with slow connections (16.8kbps) the pages come up quite quickly even with photos, someone has done a great job of setting things up. I wonder if there might be someway to steer new members through the existing body of info, to help with duplicate questions. It doesn't seem to be obvious how one can search through the back postings, or maybe that's just because I don't search much myself. I still find it odd that I have to use my previous button to get to the next newest post and wonder if everyone has this or if it's my computer somehow? Also a spell checker would be a nice addition.
Richard V

[dwilli3038]

Hello Ricardo,
Just click on the "SEARCH" at the upper right hand area of the page. You can then put in phrases that you wish to search for. It workes rather well.



Daryl
'64 230 SL

[Sphe]

This forum has been an incredible source of information! Thanks sl113.org!

[rwmastel]

What do you guys think about the "Education on ..." threads?

Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420

[Gerhard]

Hi Rodd,

Good idea, sounds like building an archive on the subsystems of our beautiful Pagodas. Hope to see a lot of detailed pictures and how-to's! It might be usefull to set a standard for the information published, like step by step manuals. Interested to see reactions of fellow members.



Gerhard
1965 230SL

[blairwag]

Richard Madison turned me onto this web site, after I stumbled onto his web page a few months ago. This site, and it's members, have been the single most informative source of information and help regarding my 280SL that I've had the pleasure of being exposed to. I love this place!

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
William Blair Wagner: blairwag@earthlink.net
Education is not always knowing the answer,
...but rather knowing where to look for it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[n/a]

 

The site is great, although I have not yet been able to give any advise I am deeply greatful for the advise recieved -
Claire
1971 280sl ( IN BITS !!! ) soon to be great !!

Claire Lambert

[Cees Klumper]

On Wednesday, we "signed up" our 100th full member: Bruce Kaiser of Watervliet, New York. A small milestone!

[France]

Well, I know I'm piling in late, but I just became an official member last week.  I expect my info package and badge in the mail any day (right, Cees?)

This forum has already been a great help.  The search finds all sorts of info on keys (my first problem) and told me not to worry that the tranny is a little stiff.  I'm really going to have fun with this car, which doesn't need much fixing up to be perfect.  Thanks to the folks who set this up for all of us!

Cheers,
Trice

My tastes are simple:  I am always satisfied with the very best...a Pagoda -- Oscar Wilde
(Well OK, no, he didn't say a Pagoda; I made that part up.  But if Pagodas had existed in the late 1800s, he would have driven one!)

[Douglas]

Trice,

I disagree. I see Wilde as more of a Facel Vega man..... or perhaps a Bizzarini or something equally obscure and flashy.

(Okay, I digress.)



Douglas Kim
New York, NY
#018260

[kns]

Douglas, since you're digressing, what have you got against the Type 57 Bugatti "Atlantic" ??!!

kns.
1965 230SL, Manual
[1965 220SEb Coupe, Man.]

[JamesL]

Saw a 230SL parked near home over the weekend and thought..."wouldn't it be good to have them sign up on the SL Group? More members, more sharing of ideas, more opportunities to get together"


But, how do we let them know the group exists?

How about a business card (or similar ) - perhaps that could be (downloaded and) printed by members - which they can then keep handy and drop under the windscreen wiper of other SLs

Just a thought

[Douglas]

A good thought, Tosh. In fact, we've been talking about this very idea for awhile. It's in the works......

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
#018260

[Bob G]

Ultimately I think what we really hope will happen is a more user friendly work shop manual and a book or CD about our cars. It seems these are not a welcome site to most mechinic shops and loosely granted emunity at the Mercedes-Benz dealerships. In my time that I have shared with these other members I have learned way more than I could on my own. That in it self I tell new owners of these cars I talk to it work its weight in gold. It soft of like having a personal life raft that keeps you a floot through the mercky times when things go wrong. A post can give you some bearning and make the problems not such a big problem to deal with any more.
For that I feel the membership to this group has already paided off for my self this first offical year.
Bob Geco
1968 280SL
113 044 12  00 1906

[Cees Klumper]

The site has been very busy lately - this is probably a sign that our cars are coming back out of hibernation (called 'winter sleep' in Dutch) which is good news not only for us but also for all who like seeing us pass by on the highways and byways.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[France]

Cees,

Thanks for giving us the occasional topic that even us technically challenged can participate in... like car names.  Some time in the near future I will have to draw on the technical sections, as I would like to install retracting seatbelts in place of the Kangols that I'd like to strangle someone with.  But meanwhile it is good to get inspiration from the many people on the forums who clearly love these 113s, even if the topic is lightweight.  It seems there is no end to our desire to talk about our adored!


Trice
1968 280SL US, signal/bl leather, auto

[hauser]

I have been a member for only a few weeks although I had been checking it out from time to time. I think it's a great website with a wonderful group of people where everyone contributes promoting for a better understanding of our cars. A place you can come to and see the light at the end of that tunnel. Discuss problems get solutions and adress any issues you're having. Why go through trial and error when you have such a great organization as this to help you along the way.

There is one very important part, (at least to me) and that is everyone who participates is acknowledged. Unlike so many of other forums/clubs where it's always the same group from a particular region.  Here, everyone seems to have their say and no one is left out. No matter where they are from!

This is truly one of the best organizations to be a part of not only for the Pagoda owner but anyone who has the passion for these beautiful automobiles.

Membership may cost $30.00 but the satisfaction you get for being a part of this is priceless .

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks for the positive feedback Hauser.

Actually the paid ("full") membership is voluntary. The basic membership is free and allows posting to the forums, access to all but the full member registry. Full members receive our printed quarterly, Pagoda World, they can vote in the annual elections and other club business, and can stand for election to the board themselves.

We are currently working on providing other benefits. So it's the full members who decide on the direction of the Group, can influence important decisions etc. Plus ... since we do not have any advertising or other income from the website, it is the full members who make the running of the website possible. This does not cost a lot, but still that money has to come from somewhere.

The board members are all volunteers, and the only costs we have are truly out-of-pocket. To date, about one-third of the total membership have decided to become full members. It is our hope, of course, that more decide to become full members, but again this is purely voluntary.

As for the participation on the forums, that's indeed completely 'open'. The only barrier to some may be the English language. We are currently working on establishing a foreign-language (Spanish) discussion forum as a test, to see whether that will be a benefit to Spanish-speaking members. If it is a success, we could add French, and maybe even German, later on. To be continued !

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[ted280sl]

I enjoy participating on the website and have met several members. Some members I have met at local events. I have also met members from other countries while I was on vacation. Albert in Barcelona met me for coffee and Mark in Sydney took me for a ride in his right hand drive Pagoda. I travel a good amount and would love to meet more of the members but, it is dificult because the member's list cannot be sorted by country, state or city. If these sort capabilities could be added it would work better for me.
Thank you,
Ted
I'm headed for Norfolk, Virginia this afternoon. Any local Pagodaphiles interested in exchanging tales?

[Cees Klumper]

Hello Ted. Actually the membership list can in fact be sorted by country. Then, within a country you can click on the members located there, and send an email to those who have put their email address in their profile (not visible to the viewer, but you can send them an email). For the US, this would not be very effective since there are so many members located there, but it's a start. The board is now looking into the possibility of expanding the sorting capabilities / providing some sort of membership roster.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[rwmastel]

Members,

Here's a chance to provide some feedback in the "Membership Feedback" forum!

Regarding the possible decision to publish a better Membership Directory than what we already have (located at http://www.sl113.org/forums/members.asp), there are many questions.

What information would be published in a Membership Directory?

Would it only be available on-line?

Would it be in a printable format?

Would it have to include every member, or would members be asked to volunteer their information to be listed?

Would it include only dues-paying Full Members (now about 200), or all members registered on the Discussion Forums (now about 800)?

What privacy concerns need to be dealt with?

Tell us your thoughts.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[rwmastel]

No replies in just over two weeks.  So, should we (the Board of Directors) take this to mean that no changes to the current on-line membership directory are needed?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Eryck]

Great site. One comment is that the "know-how" sections are a bit unorganized. Require a lot of searching before you find the specific topic that you are looking for.  Anyone seen the BMW 8 series site? Now that is one organized site where it's very easy to look up topics.  Just my two cents....in any case, I am greatful for this site!  I feel less lonely (don't know anyone with a Pagoda in Hong Kong).

[gwuisman]

Rod,

Just to make sure there is some interest in your wish to improve the site. It could be considered to put the e-mail adresses in the list. Perhaps in stead of 'Last post'. I don't know what advantage that information has.

Gerard Wuisman
1970 280sl

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by Eryck

Great site. One comment is that the "know-how" sections are a bit unorganized. Require a lot of searching before you find the specific topic that you are looking for.  Anyone seen the BMW 8 series site? Now that is one organized site where it's very easy to look up topics.

Eryck,
What is the URL fro the BMW 8 web site?
By "know-how" sections, do you mean the "technical articles" that are seperated into sections?
We would love to better organize the site's static info.  We were so happy to have a good Search tool that manually organizing all that data took a back seat to other things.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by gwuisman

Just to make sure there is some interest in your wish to improve the site. It could be considered to put the e-mail adresses in the list. Perhaps in stead of 'Last post'. I don't know what advantage that information has.

Gerard

Gerard,
In the list of members, I agree that the "last post" might serve little purpose.  I'm not sure if we can modify the contents (columns) on this page.  To send an e-mail, or see a user's profile, just click on the users ID in the list.  Then click on "Send this user an e-mail".

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[hands_aus]

Hello Rodd,
Could a "PART NUMBER DATABASE" be established on the home page along with the other databases?

I am sure if each of us contributed the part numbers and descriptions/names and applicable car models of the parts we have already gathered, there would be a very useful database that all members could access.

This would reduce the need for people to ask for part numbers.

I know the obvious solution would be for everybody to own a parts booklet but that is not always possible.

I am not sure but I think as an early 250sl owner I would need a book for the 230sl and the 250sl.

Obviously I don't have either book yet.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[n/a]

Hello Rodd,

I think Bob suggestion is a brilliant idea if it's ever possible to gather and implment it. I for one have being trying to get part numbers for some of the things I would like to order from MB but they too  are not able to provide any assistance. I guess it too much hassle for them to waste time on one individual. I am sure that it there is such a database on the web site , it will help solve lots of questions.

In Malaysia,I believe there are only about 10-15 pagoda on the road and the car repairs shops here are not familiar with the parts as they are more used to dealing with newer MB cars.In most cases they quote for the whole power sterring set when what you are looking for is just a bush kit.  They say they get the pricing from Germany and they claim thats how the German's quote (whole package).

I wouldnt mind buying one if there's  such a details book on each parts with the photo(It helps).

Nasser

quote:Originally posted by hands_aus

Hello Rodd,
Could a "PART NUMBER DATABASE" be established on the home page along with the other databases?

I am sure if each of us contributed the part numbers and descriptions/names and applicable car models of the parts we have already gathered, there would be a very useful database that all members could access.

This would reduce the need for people to ask for part numbers.

I know the obvious solution would be for everybody to own a parts booklet but that is not always possible.

I am not sure but I think as an early 250sl owner I would need a book for the 230sl and the 250sl.

Obviously I don't have either book yet.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[A Dalton]

quote:Originally posted by hands_aus
[

I know the obvious solution would be for everybody to own a parts booklet but that is not always possible.

I am not sure but I think as an early 250sl owner I would need a book for the 230sl and the 250sl.

Obviously I don't have either book yet.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

 Bob,
 Actually , the 230 and Early 250sl share many parts , but they are also very different on others..
 The Book you want for Early 250/.043. is MB-10128/Type 250SL/Edition"A".
 Hard to find , but settle for no other .I will keep my eyes peeled for you and if you need a specific #, I have those books...

[hands_aus]

quote:Originally posted by A Dalton

quote:Originally posted by hands_aus
[

I know the obvious solution would be for everybody to own a parts booklet but that is not always possible.

I am not sure but I think as an early 250sl owner I would need a book for the 230sl and the 250sl.

Obviously I don't have either book yet.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

 Bob,
 Actually , the 230 and Early 250sl share many parts , but they are also very different on others..
 The Book you want for Early 250/.043. is MB-10128/Type 250SL/Edition"A".
 Hard to find , but settle for no other .I will keep my eyes peeled for you and if you need a specific #, I have those books...

Hey Arthur,
Thanks for the number of the book. Does it also cover the Engine?
I see on the MB Classic site that they have a parts book for the 129 engine. Does it have numbers or just pictures of the engine?

Which edition of the Technical Data Books should I buy?

Yes please keep your eye open for me.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[bjudd]

I think it would be helpful to have a "beginners page" for peope like me who are just getting to know their cars and the site.  I could see a "do & don't" list of all the common early mistakes of novices - starting of course with the oil filter mishaps and going on from there.



bjudd
1969 280 SL 5 sp

[keesing]

Looks like its been awhile since anyone posted here...
I would like to send out my sincere appreciation to the organizers and members of this site. I began surfing here several months ago, just for something to do... this week I bought a '67 250SL! It was the Pagoda SL Group, all of the great information and the specific help from the members here that got me to this point. EVERYONE has been so helpful and a true pleasure... helped me make my decisions, gave me guidance and saved me money and heartaches!
THANKS

 

[hands_aus]

I propose that the Pagoda World magazine be archived in some sort of format (PDF?) and make it available to all to read online.

Each new issue could be archived one month after the magazine has been distributed to all full members.

This way the casual members of this site could be referred to the wonderful articles that are available to ‘full’ members.

The information should be available to all.

Reason for this proposal……
I was re-reading my Pagoda World magazines and I realised how valuable the information they contained was.

There has been questions from people about various topics that were covered in detail in the Pagoda World magazine eg., pre-purchase inspection of a Pagoda, replacement of heater levers etc.

Mostly ‘we’ refer the people to the search function.

Instead they can be referred to a COMPLETE document with all relevant information (usually including part numbers and often pictures).

I know that the Users Manual will cover these topics but until it is available, this seems to be a sensible interim arrangement.

Any thoughts?

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[Ed Cave]

Bob:

Seems to me, if you got the benefits of Pagoda World and didn't have to pay the annual dues then there likely would no longer be a Pagoda World because few would pay the dues and without dues, it would not be possible to produce and distribute Pagoda World in the first place.

I may not be in the majority here but for a club like this to prosper and continue to provide its membership with good, quality information it is imperative that there be some revenue to offset the cost of doing so. I actually lean in the other direction and believe that perhaps more of the information that is now provided without cost to everyone should be limited to those who pay the dues, encouraging more people to ante up and submit the $30 (less cost than a single tank of gas). Giving everything away for free will not allow a group like this to sustain its viability and bring its membership increasing value.

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA


1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0
2006 GS430

[JPMOSE]

I agree with Ed Cave 100%.  From my experience belonging to other on-line clubs, if there are no perks with membership, one will simply join the forum for free.  Eventually, the site may languish to the point of shut-down.  

On that note...Cees...are back issues available for purchase?  I would like to buy an entire set for my reading pleasure.

Best Regards,

J. P. Mose
1968 250SL

[Cees Klumper]

We did consider making PW available as a .pdf or otherwise, but for the exact reasons Ed mentions, the board decided not to. We do depend on the proceeds from the full membership to pay the site's expenses, which are the bulk of our expenses to be covered. I noticed that the 190 SL Group offers back issues on a CD-rom and they charge for that.

I do still have a few back issues left of numbers 1, 2 and 6, that are available for sale for $8 each plus postage. If interested, please drop me an email.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[hands_aus]

quote:Originally posted by cees klumper

We did consider making PW available as a .pdf or otherwise, but for the exact reasons Ed mentions, the board decided not to. We do depend on the proceeds from the full membership to pay the site's expenses, which are the bulk of our expenses to be covered. I noticed that the 190 SL Group offers back issues on a CD-rom and they charge for that.

I do still have a few back issues left of numbers 1, 2 and 6, that are available for sale for $8 each plus postage. If interested, please drop me an email.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

Hey Cees, J.P. Ed

OK, it was decided to not allow basic members the possibility of viewing the whole magazine.

My suggestion was to make life easier for the people who generally respond the most to the articles/questions posted.

I really only want the technical stuff available to all members.

For example, that article about pre-purchase inspections is great and should be able to be a reference for prospective car buyers.

Surely new members should not have to search for bits and pieces of information, given that the article exists, is complete, and very comprehensive.

I must say that the Ponton site idea of selling a CD rom with the back issues is something this site could explore given the lack of hard copies of some of the issues.

Ed,
I disagree about limiting the availibility of information to only full members in the hope that it will encourge basic members to become full members.

J.P,
With the amount of activity this sites generates it seems highly unlikely that it will languish to the point of shut-down.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[J. Huber]

A little off-thread but can I talk whomever is mailing out the latest PW to include a couple more decals for me? I use mine to cover a small but unsightly crack in my soft-top window...But the folding kind of wears it out...Thanks.

James
63 230SL

[rwmastel]

Bob,

Yes, it was decided from the beginning by the Board to make Pagoda World only available through purchase (membership dues or purchase through back-issue).  Hear out the reasoning.

The Board wanted very much to have a tangible aspect to the Group.  In creating this Group, we wanted to be more than just "an internet group", we had that with the Yahoo! system.  We wanted to be a "real" group (car club) with a magazine, local and international events, a web site, and everything else that goes along being a "real" group.  So, providing a nice magazine to paying members sounded proper and we thought it would provide a valued service.  Besides, not all Pagoda owners are Internet surfers.  We wanted to attract them as well.

The Board decided to not make Pagoda World available electronically because that midium is so easy to copy.  If hundreds of members pay to get their copy, and one "rouge" member copies his electronic file to hundreds of non-members, or the whole World by posting it on a seperate web site, then there's no point in printing it.  At least, that was the reasoning.

The Board uses Pagoda World as the main incentive to attract paying members so we can have income to pay for:
- Pagoda World (printing, envelopes, international postage, etc.)
- Membership Packets (welcome letter, membership card, window stickers, envelopes, international postage, etc.)
- ISP Web Site Hosting (so we can have this conversation right now)
- It's also nice to have some cash on-hand so we can reduce the risk of undertaking initatives.  A primary example is the Group Poster.  We also launched an on-line Group Store.  I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten right now.

Let me know your thoughts after reading this.

Thanks,

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[hands_aus]

The Joe Alexander 'TOURS' would make a very good basis for a W113 handbook.

The 'TOUR' information could get buried in general discussion
because of the number of posters who 'steal/borrow/divert' the topic.

I think that members who have something personal to discuss further to one of the 'TOURS' created by Joe A. should create a new thread.

Often regular contributors refer us to other threads with a similar theme.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[ptomey]

I can see nobody has been on this topic for a while but it is still up here on a sticky sooo....

I am totally addicted to this site. I check it out on most days at least 3 or 4 times just to see what's new. When I do have something that I think is worthwhile, and I post it, it's amazing how fast, meaningful and well intentioned the responses are.

I did wonder about the classified section. It doesn't seem to have much activity given the activity on the general info section. I also belong to a few Porsche sites and a club racing site (Shameless plug: www.apexspeed.com ). Some of these sites don't hold a candle to the Pagoda SL Group as far as new and active threads. But they do always seem to have a lot of stuff for sale on them. Just curious why on such an active site as this, more members aren't taking advantage of the marketplace aspect.

Paul Tomey
Tierra Verde,FL

1968 280SL Light Ivory (Enjoy)
2002 Porsche 996TT (Track)
2003 Van Dieman Formula Car (Race)
2006 Yukon Denali (Tow Cars and Haul Kids)

[Saltydog]

Drive on Boss (as we would say locally)
Great site, ggod info, nice to share

good links like PDFs of old 280 manuals that so many people seem not to have. Mercedes should provide this FOC and without rights assigned as it promotes their brand prestige.

A local link to a site of registered parts with images controlled by the site administrators.

A list of site GURUs. This should be a role to be earned like jedi master, wealth on information on a subject.

Thats my twopence worth, drive on and let no one stop you,

SaltyDog

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

It's only been a few short months for this club and this site, but these are very important, formative months. We'd like to know what you think so far. Please share your thoughts with us so we can understand what members want.

SaltyDog

[hands_aus]

Hi,
I was doing a search and the message below, showed on the screen.

I was searching for 'steering play' on member name 'ja17'
Is this MY PC or the website problem.

It happened 3 times

quote
2,3,4,5,7,8
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e31'

[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver]Timeout expired

/forums/search.asp, line 376

unquote

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[waqas]

I get the same message fairly often these days. I used to think it was an occasional glitch. Now it happens all the time.

Too bad we're not using the phpBB web-forum software (available at http://www.phpBB.com). It's open-source (GPL), runs on apache and mysql (does NOT require a windows server!), and best of all: it really works well. Oh well....

Waqas in Austin, Texas

[Peter van Es]

Dear all,

quote:Originally posted by waqas

I get the same message fairly often these days. I used to think it was an occasional glitch. Now it happens all the time.

Too bad we're not using the phpBB web-forum software (available at http://www.phpBB.com). It's open-source (GPL), runs on apache and mysql (does NOT require a windows server!), and best of all: it really works well. Oh well....

Waqas in Austin, Texas

Here's the official answer from your administrator. The fact that we get this message is because we are a victim of our own success. As the number of posts increases, the time taken to search the forum takes longer. As it takes longer, it times out more frequently. Advice: search when usage is lowest. Given our predominant US based membership, search at a time when ALL of the US is asleep.

We are currently paying a fair amount for webhosting, but clearly not enough for a very fast processor. I could see if I could get better service with a more expensive subscription, but doubt it: service levels of ISP's are notoriously bad.

However, this is also one of the reasons why we are setting up the Technical Manual. As that is better structured, it should be easier to find things there without increasing the load on the servers.

Waqas, does the fact that you know about phpBB mean that I can enlist your services for co-admin role on this board? I could sure use some help...

I am also an Open Source afficionado, but I am also realistic. We currently have some 7500 topics (and many more posts than that) on this board. As there is no automatic Snitz Forums to phpBB converter, moving to phpBB would mean losing all that content. When the Technical Manual is nearing completion, we could contemplate doing that, but at the moment it is unrealistic. I am not going to spend that much effort (writing conversion software etc) for relatively little gain.

You might then wonder, could we not have the old forum coexist (closed, inactive for posting) with the new forum? That's not very practical, as then you cannot post an additional question to a pre-existing thread on the old forum.

As I've now supported this board for two years, I know about the problems people -- our users -- have. Switching to a new forum software will not be easy, and having new forum software co-exist with the old, is going to be more trouble than it's worth. The fact that this site consists of a general site and a separate forum is already a major source of confusion.

The Technical Manual / Wiki platform is Open Source based and growing in importance. I am planning to move some of the content of our home page http://www.sl113.org/ and other sections there to the Wiki as it is so much easier to maintain than the home page. However, the net benefit of even that will be limited as redeveloping e.g. the signup and payment pages will cost me lots of time for no real improvement in the site.

If you have any other views, I'd love to hear about it.

Peter



1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual.

[waqas]

Peter,

quote:Waqas, does the fact that you know about phpBB mean that I can enlist your services for co-admin role on this board? I could sure use some help...

Absolutely!  In fact, I just went through setting-up a web-forum for another organization (I don't exactly do software for a living, I actually design integrated circuits).

quote:I am also an Open Source afficionado, but I am also realistic. We currently have some 7500 topics (and many more posts than that) on this board. As there is no automatic Snitz Forums to phpBB converter, moving to phpBB would mean losing all that content. When the Technical Manual is nearing completion, we could contemplate doing that, but at the moment it is unrealistic. I am not going to spend that much effort (writing conversion software etc) for relatively little gain.

No need. There are already conversion scripts for moving a forum from Snitz to phpBB. However, it is no easy task, and many man-hours would still be needed. Thus, a specific benefit needs to be identified and justified before deciding to undertake something like that.

I don't know enough about Snitz (besides this site), but one of the major improvements phpBB has to offer over Snitz is the ability to arbitrarily decide what file-types to upload (PDF, XL, DOC, etc). Perhaps this option already exists in Snitz, and we've just chosen not to use it.

Also, little thumb-nails can be automatically created for the pictures, so that linked-pictures are not just another URL. (easy to quickly find that one uploaded figure you're searching for).

Finally, phpBB has one of the largest (if not THE largest) 'mod' community, i.e. folks who have contributed modification/customization scripts to the main source tree.  This potentially provides almost unlimited capability in the future.

quote:You might then wonder, could we not have the old forum coexist (closed, inactive for posting) with the new forum? That's not very practical, as then you cannot post an additional question to a pre-existing thread on the old forum.

I completely agree, it's hard enough to search through one forum, let alone two!

quote:The Technical Manual / Wiki platform is Open Source based and growing in importance. I am planning to move some of the content of our home page http://www.sl113.org/ and other sections there to the Wiki as it is so much easier to maintain than the home page.

To be clear, I'm not specifically advocating that we migrate to phpBB, but I just wanted to place the idea in the minds of people, so there can be an opportunity if there is a strong feeling.

In reality, the Wiki project may eventually make the forums effectively obsolete (or at least, a secondary focus of the group), further making a moot point of whether to stay with Snitz, or what not.

I visit the site quite often, and I'd love to see it continue to flourish! (besides, I have a vested interest with these bottomless money-pits I call my cars...)

Do let me know if I can be of service. (I'm still putting together stuff for the Wiki, albeit at my usual glacial pace...)

Waqas in Austin, Texas

[Paddy_Crow]

I conducted an experiment a few weeks ago. I kept getting the same error message when I searched from the main index page. When I entered a discussion prior to searching, the search seemed to return some hits only from within that discussion. But it didn't time out.

No guarantees, that's just my experience.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

[Peter van Es]

quote:Originally posted by waqas



No need. There are already conversion scripts for moving a forum from Snitz to phpBB. However, it is no easy task, and many man-hours would still be needed. Thus, a specific benefit needs to be identified and justified before deciding to undertake something like that.

I had a look at one of these once -- but not in a great amount of detail, but the biggest issues were:

• the full members section is a set of ASP pages and therefore need to be hosted on Windows. Rewriting these, as I wrote, is a pain. If the forum moves to open source we need two different hosting plans and get a different name for the forums
• you lose the link between members, nr of posts and so on if the conversion script is not careful
• attachments need very careful handling
• Google can't find anything anymore

As a result, I decided to focus on the Technical Manual on the Wiki rather than a time-consuming forum replacement. However, if you are willing to help, I'm sure it actually requires us to write software and modify the script and test it carefully. So we could start looking into it.

quote:
I don't know enough about Snitz (besides this site), but one of the major improvements phpBB has to offer over Snitz is the ability to arbitrarily decide what file-types to upload (PDF, XL, DOC, etc). Perhaps this option already exists in Snitz, and we've just chosen not to use it.

Actually, Snits offers these abilities. We were very constrained in storage space under our initial hosting plan (we ran out a couple of times, the site stopped working altogether and I had to use my personal credit card to buy the next level of ISP service), and therefore we limited the picture size and only allowed people to upload pictures. Now that constraint is less severe, but I'm not very happy with the ISP. I've noticed that Windows hosting is typically a lot more expensive than Open Source hosting and the level of technical knowledge is low.

Everytime I call the US based hoster (Web.com if you want to know) end up talking to a very nice but not very knowledgeable Philippino on their helpdesk in Manila. So perhaps looking for a better ISP o even paying a bit more to get more processor capacity is a good solution.

By the way, we currently have over 55000 messages posted!

Peter

1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual.

[Richard Madison]

A suggestion to reduce the number of time-outs due to long searches:

When looking for information or for a specific message, if it's likely to have been discussed or posted in the past few months, try using "Search By Date" in the Search Dialog Box. Limit the search to whatever number of months you think is good for your search and select one Forum to search.

If you don't use the "Search By Date" option, the search will made of all messages in the forum chosen from the first day we opened for business. This is likely to result in more timeouts.

I can usually find what I need if I limit my search to one forum and to "Last 12 Months". I get very few timeouts.

Richard M

[Peter van Es]

Dear all,

on the front page of our site (at http://www.sl113.org) I have changed the search function to use Google. Previously we used a site search facility that manually required reindexing the site, and therefore was not very up-to-date.

If you want to find everything there is to know about a topic, use the site search function. It finds content, regardless of whether it is in the forums, in one of our tables, or in the Technical Manual.

Furthermore, it does not time out and generates no load on our server!

Peter


1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual.