Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: tempur on May 29, 2008, 00:50:34
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Dear Pagoda enthusiasts,
There's been some interest expressed in another thread regarding my 1965 230SL because of its low mileage (17k). I am attaching five recent pictures of the car, which I acquired last year in Pennsylvania and which I've had subsequently shipped to Belgium, my current country of residence.
The previous owner seemed very knowledgeable and forthcoming about the car, which is why I decided to buy the car based on pictures only. The car was very much as described with only a few glitches that could be expected of a car this age (two new shocks and two new bushings in the steering coupling so far).
The low mileage is documented through a full set of maintenance logs and repair bills and the previous owner's detailed recordings of fuel consumption. Also, the overall condition of the car resembles that of one that hardly been used and well taken care of (original paint (MB512), original interior (eggshell)). So far, I've spend most of my time driving the car, which has done away with some early glitches with the automatic transmission and rough idling. Also, carefully detailing the paint and the interior has notably improved the car's appearance and has eliminated a rather ugly smell that had taken hold of the cabin.
The only issue left, as you can see in one of the pictures, is the carpet, which has partly started to decompose. I'm thinking of replacing it but am hesitant as it is original to the vehicle.
Tempur,
1965 230SL
1968 280SE/C (30K miles)
1995 E280T
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Tempur, 1)what's the VIN?, 2) the bitmap pics are too small too seen anything much and resolution's too low to expand for any detail.
'65 - '08... 43 years with 17k miles averages 395 miles/year. With all the documented milage available when was the 17k miles put on this car... over the 1st 10 years and since then near nothing? or what? How was it stored when not being driven...? How many prior owners? When was it last sold (before you purchased it)? Has it always been in Penn? and where was it originally purchased?
Car sure looks pristine from the small .bmp files, and is georgeous and beautiful color combination, but I'm skeptical of it having only 17k miles. My only reason for skepticism is that any/all prior owners would had to have the intent to make this a museum piece... i.e. drive only to warm up oil and move wheel bearings once in a while... and kept covered in temperature / humidity controlled environment. I'd believe 117k miles.
A restored (but not with all original fittings) version sold for 75k on e-bay very recently.... by comparison, a purely original 17k '65 would be worth twice that... or put another way, the e-bay $75k car was overpriced by ~2x or worth maybe up to $45k if I'm liberal ... my own opinion, not necessarily shared by others, and if my valuation of that car at say $40k is valid, then yours should have sold for nearer $75k.
If you don't mind my asking, how did you come across this and was it being offered by a dealer or the owner?
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The Hairpin Company (google it) here in the UK have a 1970 silver 280 with 22,000 miles on it for sale
Yours for $100,000, give or take the exchange rate...
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Longtooth,
I have the same instincts whenever I hear about a car with very low mileage, but I think Tempur is just sharing pix of his pride & joy. Is this really the time to give him the 3rd degree? The man is relatively new to the forums; let's welcome him.
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17k miles for a 40 year old car is extremely remarkable and especially so for a car with a white interior that looks to be so priistine as appears in the photos. Hard to imagine. You made a great purchase, good for you and welcome to the group!
What town in Pennsylvania did this car come from??? I recall someone with a Red Pagoda several years ago.
Having lived in a number of counties in the state over the years perhaps I may know the previous owner or his family. Small world you know...
I'd be curious what shops or dealer maintained it over the years if you don't mind sharing some of the service vendor names being you have the documentation. Several of us reside in Pennsylvania so this info would be most helpful, I'm always looking for another good service technician who knows these cars. Whoever maintained this one over the years did a great job.
Share with your friends my good man!.... :D
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Beautiful car.
My car has 67,000 miles on the clock but no documentation whatsoever (I bought it in Nov 04 and it had just over 65,000 on the clock). Condition is no where near this car, just a daily driver but pretty honest car first registered in Hong Kong in 1965. I neither believe the mileage nor care because it's such an old car but some folks here in Hong Kong think that it's very possible because this place is so so small (takes about an hour to drive around the whole of Hong Kong Island) and many people don't drive their older cars everyday because of the congested roads. Second hand cars (especially super cars and exotics) have extremely low mileage here.
I only drive the car on the weekend and clock less than 10km per day. Unless I go for a morning drive (a couple of times a year because I can't get up early enough), then I may clock 50km for the day.
Not at all saying that the mileage on my car is genuine, just thought I'd share this since the topic is called low mileage 230SL!
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Thanks for your replies and questions, which I don't mind answering if you can wait until this weekend when I have a bit more time to look into all the pieces of documentation that came with the car.
Bear with me...
Tempur
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Tempur,
Is it this car here, serial no. 012205?
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Best,
Achim
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quote:
Originally posted by 114015
Tempur,
Is it this car here, serial no. 012205?
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Wow!!!!
This car in question is absolutely spectacular. I love the colors and would like to know more about it.
It's also a sister car to my 1965 230SL Automatic. My car is serial #012208.
My car was originally sold and delivered in Albany New York. The serial # matches the Albany area zip code 12208. 12205 also happens to be an Albany zip code. I love it.
Peter Perry
1965 230SL White Ivory/Green
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Ok. Here are a few answers to your questions:
This car is very much 012205 spotted by Perry113 who owns 012208. It was ordered in July 1965 with MBZ, Park Avenue 430 in NY by a Mr Quentin Berg, owner of the Berg Realty Co. in New Cumberland, PA. The purchase price was almost $7,000.00.
The car has been been maintained by Myers Oldsmobile in Lemoyne, PA. then Charlie Aschenbach's auto service in Steelton, PA, with invoices in the name of Mrs Frances Berg. The last service records are from Sun Motor cars in Lemoyne and, eventually, Camp Hill. The records cover the period 1965-1990 with the last one indicating 11575 miles.
The fuel log that came with the extensive document file shows every tank of gas purchased since new with dates, mileage, gallons, etc. Also, the service records show dates, mileage, etc and they reconcile to the fuel log details. From the dates and mileage, you can see that the car was not out on the roads during the winter.
According to the guy who sold me the car (and who it himself for less than 1 year) the car had been pampered by the owner. He used it for special occasions and not as a "driver". He serviced it regularly and used it sparingly. He had sheepskin seat cover on the seats for over 40 years to protect the seats. He bought a cloth car cover in 1965 and it was used it right up to the very last day he owned it. It was always garaged and covered and that is one of the reasons the car has survived intact.
I think this about covers it. Let me know if you have other questions or would like to see more pics. I'm happy to share.
Tempur
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How about photos of the engine compartment, the dash instruments, the interior, etc. It's not everyday that we can see a 17K car.
Richard M, NYC
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That is a very pretty car. You are lucky Tempur. Enjoy it!
I only have one, sort of rhetorical, question: How can anyone drive a car so nice and beautiful so little? Then again, its pleasurable to just sit and look at these cars too...
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Tempur,
Enjoy the car. It looks like a real great find. My '65 230 SL has spent six years in Brussels with me, shipped from the US and now back. Had some grest times on the autoroutes with it.
Bob
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Very interesting indeed, and it spent most of it's life not all that far from me. A great find for you, more detailed photos of the mechanicals and components of such an original car would be very interesting and informative. Sounds like a real treasure.
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Here are a few shots of the engine bay for those who expressed an interest.
Tempur
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And a few more...
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Bonus Question--- Anybody have the wiring diagram for the switch on the idle throttle butterfly in pix DSC01078 and 81? (by tempur)
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This site has the schematic showing the switch http://www.mercedesdismantlers.com/16BoltInstallationInstructions.html
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One question, the plastic tanks are not use dependent the plastics discolor over time regardless of mileage. It is evident that the washer tubing has yellowed as has the brake fluid reservoir but the washer tank seems new. Just curious.
Also aside fram that I just hate you for making my car look so old!
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David, Thanx for the reference. Looking for the point to point wiring diagram. His diagram doesn't show the details.
quote:
Originally posted by graphic66
This site has the schematic showing the switch http://www.mercedesdismantlers.com/16BoltInstallationInstructions.html
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Does anyone have a source for the original "thick" washer tubing? or maybe can spare a couple of feet of old stock?
The best I can do is some anemic thin tube...so thin that the washer cap is no longer air tight and the washer doesn't work.
Thick tubing, anybody?
Richard M, NYC
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quote:
Originally posted by 280SL71
Does anyone have a source for the original "thick" washer tubing? or maybe can spare a couple of feet of old stock?
The best I can do is some anemic thin tube...so thin that the washer cap is no longer air tight and the washer doesn't work.
Thick tubing, anybody?
Richard M, NYC
Sadly, Richard, the mighty New York City is hardly the hotbed of industrial supply. I bet there is a science or lab supply house somewhere in NY and they would have what you need. If you are going to let your fingers do the walking, vinyl tubing in all kinds of sizes is available from:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/productIndex.shtml?L2=PVC&operator=prodIndexRefinementSearch&originalValue=vinly+tubing&L1=Tubing%2C
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000056927686
http://www.consolidatedplastics.com/Tubing---Consolidateds-Clear-Vinyl-C2179.aspx
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=7513&Page=1
Generally, however you'll have to buy more than you need.
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Richard,
Pick your tubing:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=7510&Page=1&utm_source=google&gclid=COu227u41pMCFRUasgodlVouiw
Probably plasticizer free or medical grade. I noticed the plasticizer free has some 1/16" wall small stuff.
I havn't seen my car for 2 years so it's tough to gauge the size. You'll have to measure what you have
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(Don't get the reinforced tubing with the cross-hatched threading embedded in it. The original was clear.)
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quote:
Originally posted by Shvegel
Richard,
Pick your tubing:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=7510&Page=1&utm_source=google&gclid=COu227u41pMCFRUasgodlVouiw
Probably plasticizer free or medical grade. I noticed the plasticizer free has some 1/16" wall small stuff.
I havn't seen my car for 2 years so it's tough to gauge the size. You'll have to measure what you have
You probably DON'T want the plasticizer free stuff. First, it's ungodly expensive (been there done that for stuff at the car wash) and second, it isn't clear. Unless you will subdermally inject the washer fluid, you don't need the medical grade (generally for peristaltic pumps) and unless you are going to pump beverages you don't need the USDA approved food grade stuff either. Plain old clear vinyl tube w/o reinforcement (as Douglas pointed out) is the way to go.
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Thank you all for sending me on a tubing search but I don't have any old (yellowed) tubing so I don't know the original correct size (inside diameter, outside diameter, wall thickness)...perhaps one of you will be kind enough to give me the exact measurements...so far all I found is useless tubing that is too thin.
Size please...
Thanks
Richard M
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quote:
Originally posted by 280SL71
Thank you all for sending me on a tubing search but I don't have any old (yellowed) tubing so I don't know the original correct size (inside diameter, outside diameter, wall thickness)...perhaps one of you will be kind enough to give me the exact measurements...so far all I found is useless tubing that is too thin.
Size please...
Thanks
Richard M
You didn't indicate you didn't have any original samples.
Really the best thing to do would be to take the top off of your filler, take it somewhere and do a test fit.
The problem with measurement is this tubing swells, shrinks and changes over time. My measurements were taken at the end and I had to guess what they might be...
That being said, here are my measurements:
OD .3125 which is 5/16. Wall thickness, 1/16. ID then, is 3/16. It seems to fit and work fine, or at least it has for some time now. This is the tubing from the bottle to the pump; the tubing from the pump to inside the nozzles is a bit smaller.
That would make it something like this: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/variant.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=7510&product%5Fid=8073&variant%5Fid=57107
This is a pretty standard size, and I would bet I got mine at Home Depot. I'll check around my car wash Richard and if I have any I'll email you offline and send you a piece. Hope this helps.