Author Topic: Euro Headlights (Read 18740 times)

bpossel · « **on:** January 09, 2008, 18:12:57 »

Hi All!

Prior to staring the restoration of my 113, I purchased a set of new Euro headlights and chrome trim rings from Adsit.

Now as the bodyshop is working on my car, body and fit of the headlights and tail lights, the chrome trim rings of the new headlights dont fit right.

Has anyone else experienced this? I am wondering if the trim rings are "after market", causing the ill fit?

Before I have the body shop start to form the body around the rings, I want to make sure this is the correct thing to do...

Do I need to purchase rings from MB to get the correct fit?

Thanks!
Bob

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

Kemal · « **Reply #1 on:** January 09, 2008, 18:22:12 »

Sorry I can't answer your question, I just wanted to tell you that your car is a beauty.
Love the matching white steering & white walls.

Kemal
280 SL manual 69

bpossel · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2008, 18:35:03 »

Hello Kemal,

Thanks for the nice reply!

Now the car looks like this...

Note: date on pic is incorrect! Didnt set camera prior to taking the pics.

Body is stripped to bare metal and all other pieces are in baggies and bins in my garage. I plan to make this 113 perfect!

I have logged over 135 hours, just for my work, taking car apart and misc suspension work. Bodyshop hours not included...

Bob

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

zanone · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2008, 18:38:30 »

Bob, how did you notice this? Your lights fit better than mine it seemed and all the shop did was remove paint. Did you try to mount the lights and trim rings onto the fender? Remember that that trim ring oval narrows when in place when screwed in at the top and bottom. What about the front grill does it fit or are you going to have them work the body around it in places? DZ

hauser · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2008, 18:41:53 »

Bob, how was the fit before the bodyshop got a hold of your car? Did you have US units on it before? You can try to use your old trim pieces and break away the plastic trim and see if there is a difference before investing in new trim pieces.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

bpossel · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2008, 18:55:45 »

Hi Hauser,

Actually, the old USA headlights fit pretty good. I dont recall the exact fit, but I think they were better than the new ones...

I dont have the USA light anymore... sold them, so they are gone...

The new Euro lights didnt fit perfectly prior to this resto, so cant complain.

Again, dont want to do un-needed body work, if it can be solved with MB OE rings... So was hoping for someone else with direct experience.

Dennis, the chrome grill fits great! The bodyshop did a "dry fit" and it fits perfect!

Thanks,
Bob

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

hauser · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2008, 19:35:33 »

As per the Ed Cave restoration don't forget the masking tape on the inside of the chrome grill.

I don't know what to tell you about your trim pieces. I remember there was a special tool MB had that made sure the headlight oppening was spot on. I believe Mark Passareli has one of these or perhaps sold one on eBay??

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

psmith · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2008, 20:46:06 »

I have always wondered if the trim rings were different between the US and Euro headlights?

Pete S.

Bob G · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2008, 23:51:10 »

Bob:
I would recommend you used the correct Headlight chrome rims for the European headlights. I read from one of your previous post that you had sold a pair of new Bosch LE1657 USA headlight unites. these unites lights like the orginal red tailights were molded into the rim when produced. all you will acomplish is to crack the plastic and rune a very valuable light assemblie and not be sure it differs from the rim designed for the Bosch European headlight.
I would give the body shop the European headlight and a correct trim ring and let they led or brase in the gaps correctly.
You have out alot of time and money into your restoration do not cut corners that could cost you dissatifaction when the car is painted and parts are reasemmblied.
Bob Geco

hauser · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2008, 01:18:52 »

Peter, I believe the trim rings are the same once the plastic is removed from the US trim. I believe a few members have gone this route to save on buying new trim pieces.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

bpossel · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2008, 05:03:07 »

Hi Bob,

What you said ..."I would give the body shop the European headlight and a correct trim ring and let they led or brase in the gaps correctly.You have out alot of time and money into your restoration do not cut corners that could cost you dissatifaction when the car is painted and parts are reasemmblied.
Bob Geco ..." I agree!

My intention was not to cut any corners. What I am trying to do is to ensure that I do indeed have the correct trim rings for the Euro lights. I would hate to alter the body with any add'l filler around the headlights and then find out later that the rings were incorrect, etc...

From what I know so far, the front fenders and headlight buckets are the same throughout the 113 production, no different part numbers between Euro and US. I also dont see any different part numbers for the trim ring of the Euro lights and the early US light that used the seperate ring.

I will call the classic center today to confirm. I also have an email into Gernold to see what he has experienced with the lights and "fit".

Thanks for keeping this discussion going and helping to ensure the right thing is done.

Bob

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2008, 05:54:31 »

Hi, Bob,
Do you have the correct rubber gaskets between headlight chassis and bucket?
I tnink they do influence the trim fit if they're dried up and too thin...

naj

68 280SL

bpossel · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2008, 07:04:45 »

Hi Naj,

Rubber all new. Came all new with the new headlights.
B.

quote:
Originally posted by naj

Hi, Bob,
Do you have the correct rubber gaskets between headlight chassis and bucket?
I tnink they do influence the trim fit if they're dried up and too thin...

naj

68 280SL

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

hauser · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2008, 10:05:54 »

I think I've only seen this gasket once before on Rod M's car at last years Blacklick event. Are the gaskets usually visible once the headlights are mounted on the car?

I also purchased a set of Euro lights from Adsit but they did not come with the gaskets.

Where can the gaskets be purchased separately?

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

J. Huber · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2008, 10:53:06 »

Hey Hauser, I obtained my gaskets from Ray P. when he was SL Classics. I would think he could still get them. Keep in mind, there are really two seals for the headlights. One is a foam like material that seals the lens to the assembly. The other is rubber and seals the whole unit to the car. (at least that's what I think I might remember...). The rubber lip is visible between the bezel and the car.

James
63 230SL

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2008, 13:27:40 »

quote:
Originally posted by hauser

Where can the gaskets be purchased separately?

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

A 000 826 6280 x2 Rubber Gasket

naj

68 280SL

hauser · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2008, 14:14:18 »

Naj, are these gaskets visible when the units are installed correctly? If using US headlights are the gaskets required?

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

rwmastel · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2008, 15:17:59 »

I got my seals from Caliber Motors when Tom Hanson still worked there. I'm sure you could get them at many of the more popular parts suppliers.

Yes, foam between assembly & lens, rubber between assembly & body.

I originally thought of trimming the rubber off, but I didn't think I would end up doing it evenly and without scratching the paint or chrome.

Rodd
Pagoda Technical Manual
please contibute: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
1966 230SL
2006 C230 Sport Sedan

bpossel · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2008, 17:47:20 »

To see if the trim rings from Adsit are really correct, today I ordered 1 new trim ring from my local MB dealer.

It will be here tomorrow and I will take it to the body shop and see if the fit is any better. They will not get to this until Monday. I'll report back then on this fit issue.

Hauser, if I were you, I'd call Adsit and complain that you didnt get the right seals. Talk to "Gary" and tell him that I told you to call him. He is great, and will take care of you.

Thanks,
Bob

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

Bob G · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2008, 20:57:32 »

I do have question thatt I would like an answer to. I purchased the rubber gaskets that fit between the body of the headlight unite and the European headlight. I couldd not figure out how they are suppose to fit. they have these tiny nipples on on side Were do they fit. I will have to order another set if these are important? however all the W113s I have looked at at shows or taken pictures of over the years my be one or two have had them.
I did not think of this bob when I responded to your email post .but they could influence the fit . I still diffendly feel that the chrome rim for the European headlight is different than the USA specification headlight assembly. I know many people try to use the rim off An American Bosch unite to cut corners, but then why does Mercedes-benz offer a different headlight tim ring??

Bob Geco

rwmastel · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2008, 22:18:51 »

quote:
Originally posted by bpossel

From what I know so far, the front fenders and headlight buckets are the same throughout the 113 production, no different part numbers between Euro and US. I also dont see any different part numbers for the trim ring of the Euro lights and the early US light that used the seperate ring. I will call the classic center today to confirm.

quote:
Originally posted by Bob G

I know many people try to use the rim off An American Bosch unite to cut corners, but then why does Mercedes-benz offer a different headlight tim ring??

It looks like the Two Bobs disagree.

Rodd
Pagoda Technical Manual
please contibute: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
1966 230SL
2006 C230 Sport Sedan

bpossel · « **Reply #21 on:** January 11, 2008, 04:57:58 »

I do need to correct an earlier response to Naj's question. My new Euros from Adsit did not come with any rubber between the rear of the light housing and the body. Only a gasket between the housing and the lens.

Picture of rear of one of my new Euros:

I will update once I receive the new ring from the dealer and compare it to the one Adsit supplied.

Bob

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

rwmastel · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2008, 10:20:23 »

quote:
Originally posted by bpossel

I do need to correct an earlier response to Naj's question. My new Euros from Adsit did not come with any rubber between the rear of the light housing and the body. Only a gasket between the housing and the lens.

For test fittings, I recommend getting those rubber seals.

Rodd
Pagoda Technical Manual
please contibute: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
1966 230SL
2006 C230 Sport Sedan

bpossel · « **Reply #23 on:** January 15, 2008, 17:06:50 »

Hi All!

The Euro trim ring from the dealer matched the Euro trim ring supplied by Adsit. I have to say that while they looked the same, the one from the dealer was a bit heavier and chrome was better.

The odd thing is that they both had the same Bosch part number on the inside of the ring.

I am sacrificing the cheaper ring for the bodyshop to use as a jig for ensuring the lights fit perfect to the body. The deal I made with the body shop is that they will have it rechromed (their cost) when they have other parts rechromed... not a bad deal for me!

Bob

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

tuultyme · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2008, 20:47:57 »

Bob
What is the method that the body shop will be using to reshape the fender? Did you have the original inner fender crease? My left ring fit fairly good but the right does not fit well at all and I do not have the creases.

Bruce; 268Blaugrun(green) 1970 280SL; IL

hauser · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2008, 21:18:54 »

Bob is your body shop using a lead or plastic filler?

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

bpossel · « **Reply #26 on:** January 17, 2008, 18:18:05 »

Hi Guys,

My shop is not using lead, rather a modern filler. Any body experts out there that can comment on the pros and cons of lead vs modern materials?

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

rwmastel · « **Reply #27 on:** January 17, 2008, 18:55:39 »

Is that a brand new firewall??

Rodd
Pagoda Technical Manual
please contibute: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
1966 230SL
2006 C230 Sport Sedan

bpossel · « **Reply #28 on:** January 18, 2008, 06:56:19 »

Hi Rodd,

No, the original. They stripped it using a soda blaster.
Nice and shinny

!
Bob

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

tuultyme · « **Reply #29 on:** April 22, 2008, 09:24:58 »

Bob followup
How did the paint shop make out on getting the fender and headlight chrome to matchup? Did they work the fender to match the ring or the other way around? Did they also do a good job with the inner fender notch?

Bruce; 268Blaugrun(green) 1970 280SL; IL

bpossel · « **Reply #30 on:** April 22, 2008, 10:46:13 »

Hi Bruce,

They spent many hours working in and ensuring the notches were there. Also a lot of time making the headlight buckets/fenders line up with the headlight chrome trim rings... We had to "sacrifice" one of the rings to sanding damage to ensure proper fit and finish

... After going through this, it is easy to see why the factory may have used headlight molds to sand around....

The body shop is still working on the paint and I "hope" to get it back soon so that I can start to put it back together again.

Take care,
Bob

bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320

Shvegel · « **Reply #31 on:** April 23, 2008, 01:48:45 »

Bob,
Well done lead would be the best way to go but people who still know how to properly do lead work are few and far between.

For my money I don't think there is anything wrong with modern plastic fillers. With all the low buck slap it together body shops in the world when was the last time you saw a car with a crack in the filler or a chunk that has fallen out?

waqas · « **Reply #32 on:** April 23, 2008, 07:49:25 »

From what I understand, poorly done lead filler (read: insufficient cleanliness beforehand) will eventually lead to bubbling through the paint. In the absence of the shop's clear experience with lead, I would not volunteer my car as their lead-filler practice run.

A beautifully finished paint surface usually does not invite questions about type of filler used.

Waqas in Austin, Texas

hauser · « **Reply #33 on:** October 11, 2008, 11:20:39 »

I decided to revive this topic and share some of my trials and discoveries concerning Euro lights, gaskets and trim rings.

If you order a new set of headlights you'll find out that the chrome ring anchoring point does not have a rectangular cutout. You'll have to use a dremel tool to open a new slot.

Gasket replacements are also different. There are two gaskets for each headlight. The lens gasket is no longer a fitted type but a single over sized strip that will need to be shortened. The other gasket will need to be trimmed of its rubber nipples and excess flange which are causer by the manufacturing process. Once installed with adhesive then the trimming process can begin. I used a box blade to trim all the excess rubber for a flush fit.

The difference in the trim rings is in the clip. My old originals have a different clip than the newer ones. The shape and placement of the clips are different. I have not compared this with one purchased from the classic center.

I hope this helps clear up some of the mysteries and myths about these euro headlights.

Anfinn · « **Reply #34 on:** October 12, 2008, 07:17:05 »

quote:
The other gasket will need to be trimmed of its rubber nipples and excess flange which are causer by the manufacturing process.

Check before you cut!
Some headlights have holes for these nipples, and they do a good job of holding the gasket in place.

tel76 · « **Reply #35 on:** November 01, 2008, 05:51:32 »

Posted 10 Jan 2008 naj informed us that the rubber seals were part number 000 826 6280.I have tried to order these from my local MB dealer,he had to contact the Clasic Centre who informed him they were NLA.Where else could i get a pair? Eric.

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #36 on:** November 01, 2008, 06:46:09 »

quote:
Originally posted by tel76

Posted 10 Jan 2008 naj informed us that the rubber seals were part number 000 826 6280.I have tried to order these from my local MB dealer,he had to contact the Clasic Centre who informed him they were NLA.Where else could i get a pair? Eric.

Hello, Eric,

I may have a couple, new.
Can't check till Wed.
Will let you know.

naj

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Author Topic: Euro Headlights (Read 18740 times)

bpossel

bpossel

zanone

hauser

bpossel

hauser

psmith

Bob G

hauser

bpossel

bpossel

hauser

hauser

bpossel

Bob G

bpossel

bpossel

tuultyme

hauser

bpossel

bpossel

tuultyme

bpossel

hauser

Anfinn