Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Rahul on April 09, 2021, 18:09:07
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Hi there, I have a 1971 280SL which has the original parchment MB Tex interior (bar one area). The seat padding has broken down pretty badly, and the vinyl itself looks pretty tired/saggy with a few small tears and rips in certain areas. It also it appears as though a prior owner was a smoker, judging by the holes in the carpets!
I am going to have the interior fully detailed, but I am thinking about re-doing the vinyl completely, as a few fitters have warned about trying to only replace the padding and risk further damage when trying to reapply the original vinyl material.
My question is, how important is keeping the interior 'original'? There is a tradeoff between having a car that looks original and well used, and one that looks tatty - I fear mine errs towards the latter. It would be nice to have a fully refinished interior, and judging by the cars that I've seen on sale recently I am guessing it is not seen to be a disadvantage in having them re-done.
I've attached some images and a quick video link. https://youtu.be/VU502tf0v1s
All views welcome! Thanks
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I’m pretty much in the same exact situation as you. My 71 is in otherwise perfect shape inside except for a small rip on the drivers seat (outside bolster) and shot carpets. I’m replacing carpets but I’m sticking with the original upholstery. I was shown repairs made to old MBTEX and it’s pretty remarkable.
From the up close photos, your seats are rather shiny. Once thoroughly clean, they’ll have more of a matte finish and essentially look as they did new. Any good detail shop can do that. Rebuilding the seat frames and using new materials inside will also make the covers fit as they did when new.
I understand the appeal of replacing the covers with new materials. Done correctly, it can look terrific. I don’t think it detracts from the value of the car either. As I’ve gotten more and more into getting my dads old car back in tip top shape, I’ve decided to go the preservation rather than restoration route. Roy Spencer at MB Heritage has encouraged me in this direction.
This is a personal call and it’s your car and should be enjoyed as YOU want it. Whether it’s refurbished or new, if done correctly, I don’t see it affecting the cars value in any way. I’ll be anxious to hear the opinion of others
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I would agree that a well done replacement for the interior would not have much negative impact on pricing. I would also agree that it is your car, and you get to make the car work for you.
If the long term pricing is a concern, the only thing I would offer is to make sure it is done correctly and with period correct colors and vinyl type (as close as you can get to the patterning of the vinyl).
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My 230 SL MB-Tex seats were in similar condition (though without any tears) and I brought them back to basically new condition with new springs and pads. Very happy with the result.
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I have seen MB Tex that had the color worn but no tears and it looked consistent with the rest of the car. MB Tex is also considered to be quite durable so I imagine careful removal should not be too risky. If it cleans up nicely and the tears can be repaired (not much to loose by trying) then replace the padding and keep it. If you choose to replace, keep the original on hand and don't overlook transferring the grommets in the headrests.
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I also have Parchment MB Tex and over the last several years redid it all with kits from World Upholstery. You can not see any difference. I even replaced the horsehair pads when I did so. There are some great options out there to replace like new.
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Thanks very much for the responses! Interesting that some of you have had success using the old covers on new pads.
I had been warned by a fitter that the vinyl backing becomes very brittle over time and can break apart during removal, rendering it basically useless... I might revisit that route given the responses here.
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I am planning on having my MB tex seats redone this summer. Planning on reusing the existing covers and the upholsterer told me that he only wants do it the summer, because he wants to take the seats out and let them bake in the sun for 2-3 days to get them as pliable as possible and then apply a heat gun to remove the covers while they are still warm from the sun. If he was just to use the heat gun without baking in the sun, there will be "cold spots" that would cause the seat covers to tear.
He also said to have a back up plan in place in case the they do tear even with the baking in the sun process, which would be to get a set of parchment or white seat covers and dye them to the existing slightly faded turquoise color.
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Has anyone had experience finding original-quality 230SL Tex replacement covers? I've not been able to find ones that have the "smooth" grain on my car -- they all seem to for later cars. Appreciate hearing people's experiences.
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German Auto Tops offers two styles of MB-Tex style vinyl - coarser grain ("PXYZ") and finer grain finish ("XYZ")
Recommend you call John for more info - https://www.germanautotops.com/mercedes-benz-w113-1963-1971-230sl-250sl-280sl-front-seat-covers-vinyl (https://www.germanautotops.com/mercedes-benz-w113-1963-1971-230sl-250sl-280sl-front-seat-covers-vinyl)
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Original 1970 MB-tex on top of new material from GAHH. Almost identical grain etc.
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Ok, thanks for everyone's help so far. Ordered replacement kit from John @ GAT, all arrived super quick. Decided for the incremental cost I would go with all-new replacements for longevity, rather than patch up and clean/re-dye the existing.
Next questions, now that I have the seats out, anything I should be taking care of whilst they are being reupholstered? I noticed the driver side is missing the 'foil-like' shield (presumably for heat and/or noise).
Also, does anyone know if this black seat bracket is required? Previous owner had recaros installed, not sure if this black piece is surplus to requirements - seems to have the correct model markings.
Some photos attached, thanks!
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Additional photo
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Sorry for the multiple posts, photo upload function seems to be a little shakey from the cellphone.
Last one
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While I had my windows worked on, I had Dynamat installed inside the doors. They now sound like vault doors when closed and it quieted down the interior too. My carpets are shot and I’m doing the same thing under them before the new ones are installed. I’ve been told many Gullwing and roadster owners have used the same product to mitigate the heat in the cabin.
Glad you went with John at GAT. I found him very easy to work with and the quality is very good.
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To rajiggyfizzle and Ireppond,
If either of your plan to replace the carpet, I am looking to replicate the rubber carpet grommet that fits around the auto shift and could use an original to borrow or purchase. Let me know if that is something you plan to do.
To rajiggyfizzle,
Those plates you show in the photos are not from original seats. Looks like you are fortunate they were not welded in.
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I have a 4 speed manual transmission, not an automatic.
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To rajiggyfizzle and Ireppond,
If either of your plan to replace the carpet, I am looking to replicate the rubber carpet grommet that fits around the auto shift and could use an original to borrow or purchase. Let me know if that is something you plan to do.
To rajiggyfizzle,
Those plates you show in the photos are not from original seats. Looks like you are fortunate they were not welded in.
Frank, I have my carpet out and may be able to help you. What exactly are you looking for?
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rajiggyfizzle -
Shvegel did a nice writeup of the shifter rubber trim - https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=31619.0 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=31619.0)
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Frank, I have my carpet out and may be able to help you. What exactly are you looking for?
I am looking for the rubber grommet that fits around the automatic shift as shown in this photo. This grommet is fused into the carpet fibers.
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I am looking for the rubber grommet that fits around the automatic shift as shown in this photo. This grommet is fused into the carpet fibers.
Its in my shed, I will dig it out this week end and get back to you.
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There is a group of us here interested in reproduction. This is raising a new hope.
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I thought I would post an update now that I have had 80-90% of the planned work done, and the car back in my possession!
As mentioned, I decided to go with new interior vinyl kits from GermanAutoTops - very glad I did! The seats and doors look and feel great... I will save the dashboard coverings for another project that might involve pulling the dash.
I had two issues with the kit supplied from GAT - firstly the coverings they provide for the door-mounted armrests didn't seem right, they came with a much more prominent seam and left a lot of excess material that needs to be tidied up (photo attached). I am having my guy unstitch and re-do the seams correctly, and trim the excess. Secondly, I seem to have only been sent one headrest cover instead of two. The bigger issue is that it is now difficult to get hold of GAT via phone and I am greeted by a voice mailbox - presumably a result of the current merger with GAHH.
There was some slight miscommunication with the shop on the thermal/sound insulation, there had been a lot of discussion back and forth and I suppose I wasn't clear enough on the final instruction. My intention was to keep the metal floors as original as possible, and add mass-loaded vinyl (MLV) mats below the seats, on the forward floor pans and in the rear bench wells to provide better sound deadening (thank you thelews and 66andblue for your previous posts on this). The benefit of this approach being that the MLV mats are easy to cut-to-shape, and can be laid beneath the removable carpets without any permanent adhesion/attachment to the metal floors.
The shop actually ended up pulling and scraping off the original insulation from the floors, which was showing some signs of degradation, and replaced it with Dynamat, stuck down beneath the seats and on the floor pans leading up to the firewall. The MLV pads were cut to shape and laid on top of the dynamat. Not quite according to plan, but I have to say the overall effect has been great. Far less road noise and vibrations, less rattling, at 60mph+ I can actually have a (loud) conversation and hear the radio!
I am a little conflicted as to whether the dynamat addition will detract from the car's 'originality' for a future owner - but ultimately, it has enhanced the experience for me and I bought this car to drive. A few other bits left to complete, but making good progress.
Some photos attached.
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Some more of the almost-finished interior upholstery
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No doubt about it: it’s looks absolutely gorgeous!
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If you ever get back in the neighborhood the original floor material was painted over in body color. A quick coat to cover the dynamat logos and all is forgiven.
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I am in the same boat. Worn out crappie replacement carpets and worn out original smooth MB Tex that is beyond redemption.
I actually like the look and feel of the coarser grained Tex for the front seats on my late model 250 SL. I will also order them without head rests even though the car came with them. I love that look.
I would also consider contrasting piping like merc- girl has if GAT will do ( or maybe not ? ). My car is a driver so I am not worried about losing points in a concours .
BTW, I am happy tp report that the MBCA is having their North Jersey June Jamborie this Saturday in person. There will be 50 + classic MBs including a dozen or so 113s.
I am looking forward to going. All are invited.
jz
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Beautiful color combo, Raj. it's interesting that you had to alter some tex pieces to fit properly.
jz
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@rajiggyfizzle, looks great. I see you also insulated the area under the wood boxes. In the spirit of further reducing the road noise, I am planning to do the same. Did you place any insulation against the back wall, towards the soft top compartment?
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Hey @dirkbalter, I did not apply it to the back wall (nor did I put any Dynamat in there). I only laid the MLV material inside the rear wells, they are not adhered to anything and easily removable.
Best,
Rahul
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Hey @dirkbalter, I did not apply it to the back wall (nor did I put any Dynamat in there). I only laid the MLV material inside the rear wells, they are not adhered to anything and easily removable.
Best,
Rahul
Got it, thank you.
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Thank you, gentlemen. This thread inspired me to finally purchase new MBTEX course grain seat covers and a square weave carpet set.
And based on recommendations I ordered from John at GAT. I was also able to find a recommended installer near me in northern NJ.
I visited the installers shop last week for him to inspect my seat cushions to see if they also needed replacement - they do not.
I think I will also install the dynamat inside the doors and in the foot wells too.
Thanks for the stimulation....
jz
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Where did you find the material for the moisture barrier? I found some on a hot-rod site, but I can't find the link. Most of the cars of that era seem to have a fairly thick moisture barrier, and I can't anything equivalent. Thanks!
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@lowpad, I'm not sure, my upholsterer sourced and installed it. I know there are a few threads in this forum where members have suggested suitable material available at hardware stores... from memory I don't think it was anything particularly special.
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Well... I am 90% of the way there with what I set out to do with getting the car up to scratch... Today was the first day I dropped the new soft-top on a gorgeous day in California, so I felt obliged to update the post with some photos.
In love with this thing, nothing beats the experience of driving top-down in the sunshine!
Thanks to everyone for their input on the various threads I have bombarded over the past few months - truly grateful to have this community of helpful owners, would have been lost without all the guidance!!
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...Dynamat...MLV [mass loaded vinyl]
I've started a separate thread on the utilization of these two materials.