Author Topic: New Positive (+) Battery Cable (Read 17724 times)

Charles 230SL · « **on:** February 17, 2018, 03:24:44 »

I need to order a new positive (+) battery cable for my 230sl and I'm trying to confirm the MB part number and length.

SLS has two cables with different lengths; one is 157mm and the other is 148mm (does a 230SL have a shorter cable?). Authentic Classics has a positive battery cable with part number 108 540 0730, whereas Niemoller's battery cable has part number 113 540 00 30. which one is right? I'd hate to order a new cable and have it be too short..

I noticed there's a clip-on bracket that secures the battery cable to the battery frame (pic below). Does anyone have a photo showing where this clip goes?

Pawel66 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2018, 08:51:58 »

That's the best picture I have at hand. It goes something like there. Bottom left corner of the picture. It is hooked on the edge of the battery base frame.

450sl · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2018, 09:20:38 »

here you are

450sl · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2018, 09:25:35 »

450sl · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2018, 09:26:08 »

Pawel66 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2018, 11:39:40 »

This routing is critical...

I was wondering (it was one of may questions to the forum waiting in a que) if there is any plate protceting the connectors on the oil pan (like we have for gear box connectors). I could not find one. So I see the connectors are left bare there.

My second question was: why do I have to use a loom tie to keep the two wires together - but I see you have a loom tie there too... I thought I had something wrong there.

ja17 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2018, 15:00:16 »

There is no shield over the cover plate. I think that the loom tie may have a third wire going through it also. Possibly from the alternator on the way to the starter.

kampala · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2018, 15:19:41 »

Quote from: Charles 230SL on February 17, 2018, 03:24:44

SLS has two cables with different lengths; one is 157mm and the other is 148mm

Charles, this sounds like a VERY short cable for battery cable. 148mm / 157mm is around 6 inches. Something seems off.

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2018, 15:38:22 »

Pawel66/450SL, thanks for the pictures, I think I've got an idea where the bracket goes now.

Yesterday I decided to take my car for a drive and listen to my recently adjusted (and now considerably quieter) valve tappets… Unfortunately, when I turned the ignition switch to the #2 start position, I got that old familiar solenoid "click".

Since my starter is only about 3yrs old, the battery is less than a year old, and I installed a new OEM ignition switch about 3yrs ago, I decided it was time for a new positive battery cable. I snipped off the positive terminal lead and sure enough, the copper wires were corroded enough to prevent adequate current flow. I may as well replace the negative cable while I’m at it – can anyone offer a suggestion of where to get a set of battery cables? I’m leaning toward Authentic Classics since they’ve got that cable bracket (further below) that I’m missing. I noticed they offer a reproduction positive battery cable http://www.authenticclassics.com/Positive-Battery-Cable-to-Starter-fits-108-p/auth-007835.htm?CartID=1. Has anyone purchased one of these lately?

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2018, 15:42:52 »

Quote from: kampala on February 17, 2018, 15:19:41

Charles, this sounds like a VERY short cable for battery cable. 148mm / 157mm is around 6 inches. Something seems off.

yep,, lets make that cm (vice mm),,,same difference to us "Westerners"

mdsalemi · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2018, 15:50:50 »

Out of curiosity, you should check the OEM price from the Classic Center. A few years ago I bought one. I do not recall the price, but what I DO recall was that it was definitely NOS. The parts tag on it was ~20 years old or so. This OEM part has a fabric insulation, not plastic/vinyl.

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2018, 16:34:28 »

ok,thks Mike, I just sent a message to Tom Hanson about the cables.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2018, 19:50:19 »

Quote from: ja17 on February 17, 2018, 15:00:16

There is no shield over the cover plate. I think that the loom tie may have a third wire going through it also. Possibly from the alternator on the way to the starter.

Joe, thank you!

Well, the PN for positive cable is A1135400130. The EPC says NLA, but it is always worth trying to ask.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2018, 21:36:46 »

If the OEM isn't available, and you want to match the OEM as close as possible, don't forget there are a variety of custom cable manufacturers out there. You just have to search.

The latest rage in small cables is fabric covering so my guess is if you search, you'll find it.

Tomnistuff · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2018, 23:25:15 »

Regarding your original question, my EPC shows two positive cables for a 230SL. The A 113 540 00 30 (original 230SL) was replaced by A 113 540 01 30. I don't know when that happened. To me, that means either of these two part numbers will work.

I don't have the length.

Tom Kizer

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2018, 01:05:04 »

thanks Tom and all, that OEM battery cable (113 540 01 30) starts at $212.00 - ouch! As much as I hate to do it, I'll have to forego the Positive OEM cable. Looks like I'll be getting the reproduction one from Authentic Classics: http://www.authenticclassics.com/Positive-Battery-Cable-to-Starter-fits-108-p/auth-007835.htm?CartID=1, and the OEM negative cable they have listed: http://www.authenticclassics.com/Mercedes-230SL-250SL-280SL-Negative-Battery-Cable-p/auth-006449.htm?CartID=2.

thanks again all, charles

Pawel66 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2018, 09:34:11 »

Just to confirm: the A113 540 01 30 was available from the Clasic Center?

This is important information...

mdsalemi · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2018, 16:56:57 »

Quote from: Charles 230SL on February 18, 2018, 01:05:04

...that OEM battery cable (113 540 01 30) starts at $224.00...looks like I'll be getting the reproduction one...

Charles, don't give up so quickly--really, make a few inquiries to the links that come up when you search for "custom battery cables" and see what they say. While it won't be cheap ($10) understand it's a heavy cable with a LOT of copper in it. The ends are pretty standard...

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2018, 13:47:25 »

Quote from: Pawel66 on February 18, 2018, 09:34:11

Just to confirm: the A113 540 01 30 was available from the Clasic Center? This is important information...

I received a message from the Classic Center stating they didn't have the Positive (+) cable. When you enter the cable part number 113-540-01-30 on the various MB sites you'll see prices in the neighborhood of $212.00 - $226.00, but I've learned from past experience that getting a price quote doesn't necessarily mean the part is available. I've ordered and paid for MB parts in the past, only to receive a refund shortly thereafter along with a message stating the part was no longer available.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2018, 14:47:04 »

This is what i was afraid of: NLA. My experience with EPC is: if it says "replaced by" - the Webparts does not even recognize the number, if it says NLA, it is NLA, then there are parts that do not say NLA, but when you put in the number in Webparts, it shows the price, but it shows the red dot (NLA) - then very often they are indeed not available but sometimes, rarely, they are, say, 6 months waiting (my record was 1,5 years for voltage regulator for 190SL).

From the European suppliers: Niemoller say they have low quantity, but they may have original - you would have to mail them and ask. Be specific what you want as they have a mess now there with the catalogue numbers. On SLS - you have one for 230 and longer for later cars. You have pictures, so you see what you get and compare with Authentic. You can get both (-) and (+) - they would look better on the battery.

Now, to confuse you more, if you look at the EPC picture, you have part that has number 32 on the picture (you do not have it in SLS, you have it shown in Niemoller as no. 19), which is part number A0005462930 INSULATING HOSE (STARTING CABLE AND CABLE HARNESS), which is an additional protective hose - you may want fellow members to advise if to put it on or not. I did.

Then you have the rubber boot for starter A1165460135 and a couple of connectors: N900261008001 lug (starter), A0005464240 connector for D+ and I see two more cable shoes (you may want to check how many you need) A0005464940 and A0005464440 if you have automatic (please verify). These you need if you want to do the cable yourself or for those who would custom make it (I would use original parts). Then I would closely look what kind of connector to battery terminal you are getting, so that it looks like original one.

Coming back long way to your original question:
- according to SLS 230SL is 148cm, later is 157cm
- correct part number is A 113 540 00 30 for 230SL, but it was replaced, so correct number is A113540 0130
- Niemoeller say they have the 0030 one, but you need to verify what they have (!), as this may not be exact
- part number A1085400730 will probably fit (?), the list of cars where it was fitted you will find in attachment, 113044 for America is there - so maybe it is an option, I am not 100% sure; it is NLA, webparts says (red dot) and it costed ca $200 in my country

That is what I could find quickly. In Europe I would check what Niemoellers have. If not, I would go for SLS.

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2018, 15:29:03 »

I've just measured mine off a 1964 230SL and it is 148cm.

Attached is a photo of that battery lead clamp off my battery tray.

Tyler S · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2018, 16:17:40 »

Quote from: mdsalemi on February 18, 2018, 16:56:57

Charles, don't give up so quickly--really, make a few inquiries to the links that come up when you search for "custom battery cables" and see what they say. While it won't be cheap ($10) understand it's a heavy cable with a LOT of copper in it. The ends are pretty standard...

This is exactly what I ended up doing 2 years ago. Ordered a custom length cable for $30 and put a generic cable end on it. You may be able to reuse your original battery end by cleaning up And soldering the new cable into it with a torch.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JGJGIE8/ref=oh_aui_i_sh_in_o2_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2018, 23:16:00 »

Scott, that picture of the bracket was just what I needed - thanks.

Tyler, Pawell66, Mike, et al., thanks for all the research and recommendations.
Since there were a couple other items I needed from Authentic Classics, I went ahead and ordered their reproduction battery cable. thanks again for all the help, charles

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #23 on:** March 03, 2018, 04:42:39 »

I received the (+) positive battery cable a couple days ago and while removing the old cable from the starter, I decided to bend that 10 gauge wire from the alternator out of the way. Well, when I bent it, the vinyl loom/sheathing cracked open in several places as did the insulation on the alternator wire itself. 54 years of heat off the exhaust manifold made the alternator wire insulation and the surrounding vinyl sheathing around it really 'crunchy'. The ignition switch wire is also enclosed in the sheathing and the insulation on it doesn't look too good either.
So....I'll need to replace the section of 10 AWG wire between the alternator and the starter and about 3 feet of the ignition wire. I really hate to splice the ignition wire but the only other option is replace the front wiring harness. The alternator wire should be no problem as it appears to have 5/16 eyelets on both ends.

I'll need the wire, eyelets, connectors, etc., and the vinyl sheathing. Can anyone recommend a supplier where I can get everything I need, including the vinyl sheathing? I really want the wiring loom and connectors to look as original as possible.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 03, 2018, 06:33:46 »

In EPC there is part A1085406609 CABLE HARNESS FROM CABLE CONNECTOR TO STARTING MOTOR, ca $150, 72hrs availability, but I am not sure if this is what you need, you are probably not talking these - you would have to verify it with the dealer/Classic Center. I think it might be similar to what you have at Authentic Classic: http://www.authenticclassics.com/Starter-Motor-Wiring-Harness-for-Mercedes-280SL-p/auth-007321.htm

I bought the nylon protective sleeve at SLS.

Connectors, looms and wire lugs/connectors - from MB you get originals (even though these are fairly generic pieces) in SLS and Authentic you see pictures.

The sources I know do not show the starter cable separately. To me it looks like:
1. Either you look at what you have and try to find all the pieces (EPC, SLS, Authentic) with suppliers who have good descriptions or pictures (the wire itself is generic) and then take it somewhere to fit the eyelets to the thick wires (may be difficult to do yourself without a poper press/clamps), or

2. Send the pieces you want to have replaced to someone who can rebuild it with pieces that look similar to originals. I am sure you have plenty of such places around.

The above probably is not extremely helpful, but this is what I do in a similar situation. Maybe in the US you have a better choice of suppliers...

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #25 on:** March 03, 2018, 08:09:08 »

Looks like these guys have everything you need:

https://enginebarn.myshopify.com/collections/all

Might be better for your sanity to buy the loom you need from Authentic....

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #26 on:** March 03, 2018, 14:20:57 »

I think that cable harness is for an automatic transmission terminal block (I've got a 4-spd).
Scott, thanks for the link to Tom's Engine Barn - they do have everything and I'm putting together a list.

Anyone know off the top of their head what gauge the ignition wire is? I'd estimate around 14 or 16 but I want to be sure. The loom needs to be large enough in diameter to accommodate it (ignition wire) and the 10 gauge alternator wire.
thanks!

Tyler S · « **Reply #27 on:** March 03, 2018, 15:11:49 »

Charles, See my repair for this issue in this post below. It would be advisable to change the alternator feed wire to 8ga

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=24660.msg178091#msg178091

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #28 on:** March 03, 2018, 16:29:55 »

Tyler, yes I saw your post(s) about using 8 gauge (vice 10 ga) wire and I agree that it's a good idea - I just can't find 5/16" & 1/4" eyelets for 8 gauge wire. Note that I don't have the terminal block used on automatic transmissions so I'd need to run the 8 gauge between the 1/4" lug on the alternator and the 5/16" lug on the starter. I know this is a ridiculous question, but where did you find those new eyelets for your starter and terminal block? would you happen to recall what gauge you used for the ignition wire going to the starter solenoid?

Tyler S · « **Reply #29 on:** March 03, 2018, 19:44:11 »

I believe I used somthing out of a kit i had. Similar to this. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B079BGRQLD/ref=gp_aw_ybh_a_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QM7SVAQ4DV8Q70N0JG0J
Soldered and heat shrunk the connection. 5/16 is just about equal to 8mm

I believe I used 12 ga for the solenoid/ign wire.

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #30 on:** March 04, 2018, 01:48:42 »

After looking closer at the wiring diagram for an early 230SL, I see that the ignition/solenoid wire is labeled 2,5 vi (2,5mm² cable diameter, violet), which is about 13 AWG. I too will go with 12 gauge for the ignition/solenoid wire.

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #31 on:** March 05, 2018, 23:36:37 »

Rhode Island Wiring (www.riwire.com) had everything needed (braided wire, ring terminals, conduit, shrink tubing) to restore the section of the harness back to original. I placed an order today with them today

Kevkeller · « **Reply #32 on:** March 07, 2018, 08:37:06 »

Charles,
What are they charging for the harness?
Kevin

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #33 on:** March 07, 2018, 15:36:22 »

Kev, I ordered just what I needed to repair my existing harness between the alternator and starter (braided/lacquered primary wire, conduit, shrink tubing, ring terminals, butt splice connectors).

On their web-site (www.riwire.com) they have price listings for Mercedes harnesses - below is an excerpt:

1970-71 MERCEDES BENZ 280SL 113 Chassis
Note: All Connector Plugs and Connector Plug Terminals
Must be Reused from Original Harness
1a. Dash, Engine, and Headlight Harness [std.trans.] 1852.00 .-_-.
1b. Dash, Engine, and Headlight Harness[auto.trans.] 1852.00 .-_-.

Items 1a. and 1b.
015170 and subs.

2. Starter Harness 67.00 .-_-.

3. Transistorized Ignition Harness 89.00 .-_-.
4a. Emissions Control Harness [std.trans.] 446.00 .-_-.
4b. Emissions Control Harness [auto.trans.] 446.00 .-_-.
5. Emergency Flasher Adaptor Harness 125.00 .-_-.
6. Instrument Panel Harness 104.00 .-_-.
7. Body and Taillights Harness 477.00 .-_-.
Chassis# 015170 and subs.
8. Positive Battery Cable 57.00 .-_-.
9. Negative Battery Cable 18.00 .-_-.

Kevkeller · « **Reply #34 on:** March 07, 2018, 20:03:48 »

Thank you Charles.

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #35 on:** March 17, 2018, 01:43:04 »

So I received the wires, ring terminals, etc,, from Rhode Island Wiring (RIW) and I restored the section of harness between the alternator and starter. It came out really nice - everything from RIW was top quality and believe me, it was nice soldering new copper wire on new terminals and then enclosing the wires in the new braided thermo tubing (conduit) they sent.
I have a 1/4 (stud) B+ terminal on my alternator and while connecting the wire from the starter, I noticed that the ring terminal on the (other) 10GA wire that runs from the alternator into the harness (and thence on to the light switch) was in poor shape. So I snipped off the old ring terminal - and that's when the fun started... for the past couple hours I've been trying to solder a ring terminal on the old 10GA wire (while on my back underneath the car) and I keep getting a cold solder joint. The old wire appears to be covered with carbon and it simply won't permit solder to flow. I’ve cut the wire back several times hoping to find good 'clean' copper inside the insulation but regardless of how far I go back, the wire continues to appear like it's got a black carbon-like coating. I don't like to use 'crimp connectors' for a harness but I'm beginning to think that a crimp connection may be my only option.
Has anyone else spiced into the 10GA wire running from the alternator and had this much difficulty soldering? I'm beginning to think Mercedes used some sort of coated primary wire for this section of the harness...

Pawel66 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 17, 2018, 07:47:12 »

And the usual ways of cleaning the wire surface before soldering do not work? I mean using the special soldering paste (or other form of cleaning agent you might have there in the US) you use to clean a bit oxidized copper wire? Or just the usual way of sanding off the oxidised or coated layer of the wires with sand paper does not work?

You have to see nice shiny bare copper before you solder it together. Same applies to connector - it also may be coated with something or oxidised.

In a new wire you may get away without using the sand paper if the wire is not coated, in the old one it is very unlikely - you would have to clean it.

Sometimes these wires are indeed coated with protective coat. Then you need to sand it off before soldering, just like the oxidized layer.

If not, then maybe this wire is quite badly corroded and it may need replacement - but let's see what others will say, I am not sure about this and it is a serious conclusion.

In more modern cars the wires can get almost completely oxidised as manufacturers use all kinds of alloys for wires not copper (cost?). Then you just need to replace the wire (e.g. BMW - I was badly surprised how can 7 years old harness look like).

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #37 on:** March 17, 2018, 12:46:42 »

Quote from: Pawel66 on March 17, 2018, 07:47:12

And the usual ways of cleaning the wire surface before soldering do not work?

thanks Pawell, well, I've used acetone, lacquer thinner, and denatured alcohol to clean the wire, and I use a good quality flux. can’t really use sandpaper as the wire is made up of many fine strands. I'll just keep at it., at this rate I may end up just replacing the front harness

Pawel66 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 17, 2018, 16:07:35 »

How do I say it n English? Bind those strands together while holdoing them and turning with two fingers until you receive a "solid piece of cable". Then take fine sand paper between two fingers, squeeze that piece of cable and turn in the same way - you will get what you need.

I am sorr I am getting very basic, but if someone is not experienced in this (and I do not know if you are), sometimes these small tips help...

As long as some copper is there - you will get it done.

Charles 230SL · « **Reply #39 on:** March 25, 2018, 13:09:56 »

as a follow up, I ended up replacing about a 3ft section of the 10ga primary wire running between the alternator and light switch. I got plenty of neoprene tubing (conduit) from RIW so I replaced the looming almost as far back as the regulator. The 10ga wire had oxidized quite a bit over the years and appears to had blackened due to heat.. all good now. thnks all,

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Author Topic: New Positive (+) Battery Cable (Read 17724 times)