Radio Becker Grand Prix

[Filippo]

Hello,

My sl had a horrible 90' radio that I naturally wanted to replace as soon as possible with an original Becker. I found a lovely 72' Becker (I know not the perfect age as my car is a 1970) Grand Prix. My question is: does this model require an amplifier? Reding forums it seems that all Grand Prix require it but looking at the rear of the radio it seems not and the old owner stated that no amplifier is required....

Can anyone help?

Many thanks
Filippo

[andyburns]

No external amp required.  You can see the output transistor mounted on the back of the unit.  Also the plug for the speakers can be clearly seen.  Should be good to go.  I would just power it up on the bench before you get much further to make sure it all works.  Quite a task to install so you dont want to find thats its not functioning after you pull your dash apart.

[Filippo]

thanks! Thats great news.

Yes I will test it before. Unfrotuantly I had the bd experience to install a becker mexico that at the end I understood didn;t work.....

[scoot]

1.  Are you sure that it is a  grand prix?  Does the name bar at the top push in activating the search function?  This is something to be tested, as if it isn't working it will likely blow a fuse.

2.  Dial scale only goes to 103 FM, is that OK for your region?

If the speaker output is on the back of the radio, there isn't a separate amplifier.  I can't see the id tag in your photo but confirm that it is a grand prix by exercising the search function by pressing the spring-loaded name bar.

[WRe]

Hi,
for more information  see here Grand Prix TR: www.beckerautosound.com/Classic/classics_wiring_info.htm
...WRe

[scoot]

Hi,
for more information  see here Grand Prix TR: www.beckerautosound.com/Classic/classics_wiring_info.htm
...WRe

Well, not really.  Becker Autosound doesn't show a Grand Prix that looks anything like this.  Also, "TR" radios are mono radios with separate amplifiers.   This looks most like a Europa MU small body mono, but still not exactly.   I go back to my original question - does the name bar that says Grand Prix function as a spring switch that activates search tuning?  If so, then I am surprised.  I'm not familiar with a Grand Prix that doesn't have a separate amplifier from this era.

[WRe]

Hi,
well it looks like a Grand Prix Serie M from the mid '70 with automatic channel search: www.radiomuseum.org/r/becker_grand_prix_serie_m.html
...WRe

[66andBlue]

Scott,
the radio has a label on the left side (when viewed from the front) indicating that it is a Becker Grand Prix L254993. Of course it is always good to check if the seek bar still works (since they are usually the first thing to go down).
These radios where available for many other models including W123, W126, R107, etc, in Europe. The list of options sheet ("Sonderausstattungsprospekt") from 1980 still lists a mono Grand Prix Model 470 although stereo models were also available at that time. I believe those later mono models did not have a separate amplifier.
Also to me it does look like a regular DIN sized face and not a "small face" radio, especially when looked at from the side.

[scoot]

Hi,
well it looks like a Grand Prix Serie M from the mid '70 with automatic channel search: www.radiomuseum.org/r/becker_grand_prix_serie_m.html
...WRe

Agreed.  This is a radio I have not seen before.  Not high on my desire list, but hopefully the search tuning is more reliable than that in the older units...

[66andBlue]

.....  Not high on my desire list, but hopefully the search tuning is more reliable than that in the older units...

I would not look down on it!  The Special Equipment list available for a 230SL (1966) and the one for the 280SL (date unknown) indicate that
the Becker Europa and the Grand Prix were the two radios a buyer could order from the factory for either car as well as a Becker Mexico for the 230SL (other radios were installed at 'branch offices and agencies').

[scoot]

I would not look down on it!  The Special Equipment list available for a 230SL (1966) and the one for the 280SL (date unknown) indicate that
the Becker Europa and the Grand Prix were the two radios a buyer could order from the factory for either car as well as a Becker Mexico for the 230SL (other radios were installed at 'branch offices and agencies').

In both cases, I think that the radio from the factory would have been the Grand Prix TR or Europa TR, both of which have separate amplifiers.  The 113 is setup to accommodate a radio with a separate amplifier and in my opinion the radios with separate amplifiers produce a higher quality sound.  Both mono and stereo.   The application where I am imagining that a small-chassis Grand Prix might be best fitted would be in a 114/115 body which has less room and is setup poorly for a separate amplifier radio.   

In the chart, MB doesn't make the distinction between a Europa and a Europa TR.  I'm completely certain that a Europa TR was factory fitted and would make no assumptions from the chart as to which of the many Grand Prix models were available...

[scoot]

FWIW, my preference for Becker radios is as follows:

Small face mono:  Europa TR, Grand Prix TR, Europa TG
Big face mono:  Grand Prix w/ amp, Europa w/ amp, Mexico w/ Amp., Europa w/o amp
Big face stereo:   Grand Prix w/ amp, Europa w/ amp, Mexico w/ Amp, Europa II stereo w/o amp

I don't like Mexicos because you end up with non-working search tuning, a cassette deck that never gets used, no preset buttons, and for a Stereo Mexico you still have a mono input for MP3.
If the search tuning is working, I think the Grand Prix is by far the nicest radio.   If you want to listen to MP3s I would go with a Europa Stereo w/ separate amp and use the plug in thing for the MP3 input.

Just my 2 cents.

[66andBlue]

True, one should not conclude from the Special Equipment list which particular model was available at the factory for installation.
That includes that it must have been a TR for a 280SL! I would argue that for the late 280SL the GrandPrix TR [only one of your other many Grandprix models  ] was no longer available.
And now I would certainly go for a Stereo, but it is a toss up whether to choose a Grandprix with separate amplifier or a Europa Stereo with integrated amplifier, both accept MP3 inputs cables.

[Filippo]

interesting discussion.

I confirm the radio has the seaking bar but still can;t check if working. Hopefully yes.

On the data card of my 280 SL built in 1969 there is no radio optional code so I think, even if the radio is from 1974, mantains some sort of originality.

With respect to quality of sound or other technicalities this makes me laugh....if I wanted to listen to music I would do this is my sitting room with a proper stereo. Personally I bought the radio only for an aestetic reason. I perfer the sound of the engine!

thanks to everyone

 

[scoot]

And now I would certainly go for a Stereo, but it is a toss up whether to choose a Grandprix with separate amplifier or a Europa Stereo with integrated amplifier, both accept MP3 inputs cables.

Don't forget the Europa Stereo with separate amplifier.   I think the important thing is easy addition of mp3 input.  There is also someone on ebay fabricating cables to run a modern amplifier from a Becker head unit.  I bought a set but haven't played with it yet.

The radio isn't just to look pretty for me, I actually enjoy the radios that I have had in all my my Mercedes cars, except the after-market ones that have all been quickly deleted...

You may find, as have I, that the original Becker radios only tend to pick up appropriate period music for the era.  I don't know how this works from an electronics standpoint, but I would like to start this as a rumor with hopes that others might believe it...

[philmas]

...I agree with this latest statement, the sound of these vintage Beckers seems more suited to vintage music rather than modern one...odd isn't it?
Besides, be aware that  european models frequency range is only up to 103mHz or so, which means you would leave many "modern" radio stations (from 103 to 106 mHz) on the side of the road......
I used to have one of those mono Grand Prix, identical as the one described above.Sound was kind of weak and "ill-defined", and it ended up with a general failure soon after the so-called "wunderbar" went down.
After that, I eventually made up my mind for a Grand prix Stereo , US edition, that does not have these bandwidth limitations.
Though, sound quality is, IMHO, still poor, possibly because the footwell speakers are too recessed and low-seated under the dash, and the amplifier only outputs a mere 2X7 watts...

Many people on this forum opted for a "hybrid" solution : old timer Becker in  dash for the looks, modern radio in  glove box for sound quality!

[Jkalplus1]

If I understand well from 66andBlue's option list picture, my radio (see pic) is period correct for a euro '64 230SL? It does not have to be a Europa TR?

[scoot]

If I understand well from 66andBlue's option list picture, my radio (see pic) is period correct for a euro '64 230SL? It does not have to be a Europa TR?

It is my opinion that your radio is _not_ correct for your car.  I think you have a Becker Europa from about 1970 in your car.  A 1964 car would have a Becker radio with small knobs the size of your cigarette lighter knob and your window crank knobs.   Big radio knobs like that didn't exist on Becker in 1964.

[Jkalplus1]

Thanks for the expertise. I take it replacing the knobs won't do it? A shame, it is in such good shape.  Does anyone want this radio, trade or partial trade for a TR?

[scoot]

It's more complicated than replacing the knobs.  Your dash panel has been cut or replaced to accommodate a later DIN sized "normal face" Becker instead of a slim-face Becker that was used up through/including the Early 250 SLs.  With the late 250 SLs interior changes were made including the enlarging of the dash opening and the larger knobs.  Your radio opening should be sized like the (poorly photographed) attached picture of the small-face Europa TR in my 1967 250 SL.  Note that the radio itself is smaller in height and that there is additional space above the radio.

[Garry]

Jkalplus1
 
If you like your radio and it works well, dont want to go to the expence of changing it over but you want to at least make it align with the other nobs then you can remove the existing knobs and purchase the smaller knobs that do fit on the shafts.  I did with my radio which is from around early 70’ and just replaced the knobs to the smaller correct ones to match the rest of the dash.

Garry

[66andBlue]

JK..
what Garry suggests is indeed the cheapest solution. But if you want to go a step further and have the cut out dimensions of the cover plate correct (go to: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Radio and look at the photo it shows the dimensions) and keep your radio, or most of it, then you need to find a cheap dead small face radio and take the face plate off and swap it with the one on your current radio.
That is what I did with a later Europa Stereo and disguised it as a Europa Mono.

[Garry]

Or potentially buy a new face place and surround.
http://www.vintageeuroparts.com
http://search.store.yahoo.net/yhst-56600775909668/cgi-bin/nsearch?query=radio+face+plate&searchsubmit=Find+&vwcatalog=yhst-56600775909668&.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintageeuroparts.com%2Fw113.html

[Jkalplus1]

You guys are the best! Thanks so much!

[Jkalplus1]

JK..
what Garry suggests is indeed the cheapest solution. But if you want to go a step further and have the cut out dimensions of the cover plate correct (go to: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Radio and look at the photo it shows the dimensions) and keep your radio, or most of it, then you need to find a cheap dead small face radio and take the face plate off and swap it with the one on your current radio.
That is what I did with a later Europa Stereo and disguised it as a Europa Mono.

I see...no need to pull the radio out. I could just call Beckerautosound and order new faceplate, dials, buttons, levers, chrome trim surround for a Europa TR (basically everything that is on the user side of the cover plate) I look at the pictures in the Wiki, I am aware on the different openings, is it to say the chrome trim surround of the TR will cover the hole in the DIN sized cut cover plate? I can buy the 230SL cover plate at authenticclassics easily, but if it is not necessary to get a perfect looking Europa TR appearance I won't. 

I am thinking in order for that to be possible, the buttons should be interchangeable (I am sure they are), the knobs and levers (obviously, since Garry has done it), but then, would the TR faceplate and chrome bezel for a Europa TR align with the DIN Europa...i.e the buttons could be lower on one and the faceplate would not fit?  I'd rather not order a bunch of parts and find out I can't use them, you know what I mean.
Again, thanks for your patience and expertise and have a great day!
Jerome

[scoot]

No no no no.   You can't mount a small-face radio in an opening designed for a big face radio.  It is TOO SMALL.  So replacing the front of a big-face radio with a small face setup IS something you can do but it will _not_ fit in a car that has a big face opening, which your car already has.  The panel has been enlarged or replaced.

If you want to go back to a small-face radio, you will need to replace that panel.

If you want to change the markings and knobs on your big face radio, you can do that too.  Replacing the black plastic "Europa" name bar with one that says "Europa TR" is trivial. 

[Garry]

Scott,

I dont think JK wants to change the radio out of the car, he wants to leave it there because of the problem with then having to change the hole size or replace that part of the dash and thus only looking to change the face plate and knobs.

[scoot]

I dont think JK wants to change the radio out of the car, he wants to leave it there because of the problem with then having to change the hole size or replace that part of the dash and thus only looking to change the face plate and knobs.

I'm having confusion with what you mean when you say changing the face plate.  The knobs, yes he can get small knobs.  But what, other than what it says on the black plastic name bar, would he change?  You could replace the plastic bar with one that says Becker Europa TR instead of Becker Europa, but I don't really see any value in that.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure the plastic name bars are available on ebay.  Easy to swap on a Becker that doesn't have seek tuning, which the Europa does not have.

[Garry]

Scott,

If you look at post 16 JK wanted to make his radio period correc to his 230.  I suggested he change the large nobs for small nobs rather than try to remove the radio and then fix up the larger opening to take the smaller earlier modle.  Alfred suggested a new face plate that are available to tidy it all up like new to fit to his Becker Europa shown at post 16.

[scoot]

If you look at post 16 JK wanted to make his radio period correc to his 230.  I suggested he change the large nobs for small nobs rather than try to remove the radio and then fix up the larger opening to take the smaller earlier modle.  Alfred suggested a new face plate that are available to tidy it all up like new to fit to his Becker Europa shown at post 16.

I understand that.  My point is that a new face plate, other than being new, is going to look exactly like his old face plate, which doesn't look bad in the picture he posted.   Soooooo......    what is the point of a new face plate?