engine bay satin or gloss

[bmrefinishers]

I,m about to paint the engine bay and i was wondering should it be satin? i know the merc 3.5 cab are satin at least the metallic ones are so then i was wondering about the engine bay im about to start the paint code is 334 and its a blue solid?

[49er]

If you want it to look more or less like original, my vote would be satin.

John

[mbzse]

I,m about to paint the engine bay and i was wondering should it be satin?

Yes, that is correct. As no top clearcoat was applied on the painted body surfaces in the M-B engine compartments, this leaves them semi-matte
/Hans in Sweden

[Garry]

Hans,

Are you sure that is correct as my engine bay which had not been repainted before appeared to have the same paint that was used on the exterior and that is not a semi-mat but also not a buffed gloss.. I am certain it did not have a clear coat on it.

 I was not aware that they used clear coats on the body paint.  My colour is also 334 and didn't appear to have a clear coat external and obviously not under the bonnet.

[drmb]

I have never seen a Pagoda with matt or satin paint in the engine bay as original always gloss same as the body.

[mbzse]

Are you sure that is correct as my engine bay which had not been repainted before appeared to have the same paint that was used on the exterior../...

Yes certainly the same paint was used, but the engine compartment lacks gloss... The useful "Motoringvestments" web page gives some guidance here, if you do not have an original older Mercedes car to look at.
http://www.motoringinvestments.com/MainPage.htm
I enclose two pictures from that link, "Mercedes 280SL W113 Buyer's Guide for Originality"
Look at fender outside surface = shiny
Look at inside surfaces = semi-matte
/Hans in Sweden

[Garry]

Hans,

I was actually looking at my own car, that has the original paint in the engine compartment.  Its not semi-matte. It is the same paint used on the external but just not polished up or buffed. Where it has been kept clean it appears to be a semi gloss to gloss and where it has not been touched over the 40 years it appears to be matt but that is just time that has dulled it and not the paint composition.

[w113dude]

I have a few MB's here they all have the engine compartment with mat finish and exterior glossy, I'm about to paint the engine bay in my car too, (in the next few weeks) since the base paint by itself does not have much body to it and will scratch easily I would paint engine bay with base coat on top of it satin clear, this will be very close to the original and strong enough not to get scratches.

[Garry]

I am also about to do an engine bay paint now that my engine and front axle are out and i have to do some rust repair in there. I am confused.

There is some conflicting info here, Hans is saying that there was no clear coat in the engine bay, it was just the original paint from the overall car but that it will not gloss, 113 dude is saying that the original paint does not have enough body and will scratch easily so it needs a clear coat of satin to avoid scratching and overall there appears to be a consensus that original paint is not enough and that a satin clear coat is needed to replicate the original??

I am assuming that the exterior of the car did not have clear coat?

[49er]

 I know my original 050 white paint has no clear coat. Not sure if the metallics did back then but don't think so. Engine bay was just shot with same body color and it is what it is, a satin unpolished, unbuffed finish. Plenty thick because of visible runs here and there. I have posted this picture dozens of times (sorry) but here is my engine bay taken when the car was 6 months old.

John

[bogeyman]

I bought my first Benz in '74 - a '72 350SL in sand beige metallic and it was definitely clearcoated. MB didn't clearcoat non-metallic colors until the nineties. I think the 113 with metallics probably were not clearcoated in the engine bay and wheel wells. The difference with the solid colors was probably just that they were not finished as the outside panels were. Just a guess...

[KevinC]

I'm suggesting the same paint was used in the engine bay as the exterior after a double check of my car. Of course the engine bay doesnt get waxed or buffed so its not as shiny. Definitely not satin as far as I'm concerned.

[George Des]

I believe the only clear coat paint that would have been available in the sixties and very early seventies would have been lacquer. Most if not all of the 113s were finished in synthetic enamel and clearing with a lacquer top coat would have surely lifted the enamel so I don't think any of the 113s were ever clearcoated at the factory. The DuPont Imron technology of using a polyisocyante containg hardener came along much later and is the technology that led to the super wet look polyurethane finshes that are used on most modern cars in either a single stage or two stage paint job--the first stage being a fairly flat looking basecoat and an isocyanate containing clear coat that would provide the deep gloss.

[Garry]

My car goes back to the paint shop tomorrow for rust repair in the engine bay as a result of the drain holes being blocked at some point and will be painting it with the same paint as the exterior. Definitely no clear coat.  Gloss/satin, what ever it comes out is what it will be, un-polished and as it comes but with an extra coat.

Whilst talking about engine bay painting, it would pay for others to do a check that their drain tubes are not blocked.  In the first photo of the engine bay, the arrow points to the drain tube and where the second photo is taken from underneath.  If I had not had the front axle out for overhaul, I may not have seen the rust that is up behind the axle and can be felt by slipping the hand down and around the edge below the drain tube. It has occurred on both sides.  Interestingly, when my old 280Sl was also dismantled recently for its repaint there was rust in the same place.

Garry

[Larry & Norma]

Garry doesn't this usually mean that the pipe running through the bulk head is probably rusted out allowing
water to enter this area?
I checked mine out by pouring a cup of rust converter in through the air scoop and collecting what came
out of the pipe in the bulkhead, as your photo, and comparing volumes. It all came out so no rusted out pipe!
This can be done for each side.

[Garry]

Hi Larry,

I think that is correct and also why you can get water into the footwell and therefor rust into that area as well.  The metal below the drain pipe is very hard to see without the axle out but you can feel it if you can get your hand around the brake booster there on the RHD cars.  Guess it is the opposite for LHD cars.  I like that idea of putting rust converter through the pipes.  I plan to put Waxoyl into everywhere ofter all the work is done as well although I don't like the sticky mess it makes.

garry

[Neil Thompson]

Garry I am off the subject a little here but on your 1st photo as the chassis member meets the bulkhead crossmember under the servo area there appears to be an area where there was a plate fixed or is this an unusually uniform rust patch? The reason for asking is that the 230 I'm attempting has a plate there which has almost all but rusted away and I thought it was a makeshift repair patch fixed whilst the servo was in situ. It looks solid under this 'patch' which looks similar in size the the area on yours?

Neil

[Garry]

Hi Neil,

There is what appears to be a plate or patch repair but that is how it was.  There is also rust into that area but not quite through.  It is original so what appears to be a square patch is part of the original cross member structure.
Here is a blown up photo of the area.

[Neil Thompson]

Thanks Garry this could be good news, I think!. Mine looks similar or at least may have done at one time. I can see no use of this plate which looks like it's pop riveted to the inner wing and jammed between the inner wing and chassis leg as shown on these photos.

Regards

Neil

[Garry]

Neil,

It sure looks like someone has in the past put a plate in there to probably cover a rust hole.  It is a common rust area as you can see from my photo. In my case it has not yet gone through there but you can see that it is well and truly started to do so.

 Any decent repair facility could remove the area and fix more sheet metal correctly there.  In my case I am going to grind off the rust to ensure there is decent metal there and then cut out the metal below there where I have the rust holes and weld in new metal and then prep and coat it.

[star63]

I replaced my rusted out drain pipes with stainless steel ones. The job was actually easier than I had imagined.

Petri

[mbzse]

.../.. Any decent repair facility could remove the area and fix more sheet metal correctly there.../..

A tip, be sure to save (or re-make) the drain hole in this area. If welded shut, you will have a puddle forming there
/Hans in Sweden

.

[wwheeler]

I got on this thread a little late. I noticed when I removed my brake booster that the paint behind was pristine. It was dark olive green as the exterior AND it was a gloss as the exterior. Of course it wasn't as shiny as the exterior because it was never buffed. The area directly to the side that is exposed was dull with a satin finish. I think it is clear that life in the engine bay is difficult and the paint finish suffers.

The other reason the engine bay should have a slightly duller appearance is because of overspray. The engine bay is not an area where they were concerned about the finish, only protection.

[RobSirg]

Hi John,

I have used your photo for reference countless times on my first project and now about to embark my second. (if only your car was a RHD
I notice you cannot see the rubber plugs in the side wall which confirms that were sprayed also. I notice the same on another original photo.
When I restored my '69 the rubber plugs were half sprayed - paint was flaking so I removed the paint with my fingers.

The decision I have to make now is  - do I spray or not? It would be correct to spray, but I think a lot of people out there (incl some judges I have seen) who would consider it an error / not original.

Rob

[GGR]

Well, judges should know better. If you restore your car to show condition, it is easier to stick to original even if this may lead to some recourse, rather than restore based on guessing what mistakes judges may be making.