Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: JamesL on November 08, 2019, 18:11:29
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I went to the UK's biggest (indoor) classic car show at the NEC today
2 Pagodas of interest. A fab looking customer car on the Hemmels stand. Not going to win any originality awards as it's in an electric metallic blue (the royal blue equivalent of moss green) with parchment interior. ECU controlled ignition, a/c and headed to the south of France. No pictures, but I am sure the owner will be happy.
Not sure that's the case on the other car. Recently restored and for sale at a London dealer. Here are some pictures and I'll let you have at it for a couple of days before I post the windscreen label...
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2 more
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Last 2 - I am sure the new owner will be very happy with a solid car that will drive very well.
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I'm surprised the restorer did not use a repro dash pad closer in appearance to the original.
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I can see where you are heading with this James...
Gee, this itch people have to paint the engine bay black
I have seen it on a number of cars (IRL) lately. Such sloppy research about how the cars came from the Factory;
For me, it is a clear sign of the restorer making a statement: "Original? That's laughable, I really do not care or want to bother!"
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I think we saw that blue car in restoration , when we were at Hemmels in September, it looked stunning then.
Paul
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Ditto to the dash pad, especially given that good repros are now easily available (having said that, my car has the pebble finish and I'm not sure I'll make the effort to change it). Door gaps are inconsistent -- I'd accept that on a TR-6, but not a Pagoda. Would never have left the factory that way. Also surprised that the headlamps notches -- overrated as proof of original fenders as they are. But the worst is the painted motor compartment ....
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Absolutely ridiculous price for a very poor restoration.
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Paul
That's the car on the Hemmels stand
It really popped and looked really well executed. Not to my taste but it looked great and the colour sort of suits the car.
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Me(Sully)and Ray inspecting the blue car at Hamels
Sully
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I think this is the most expensive I've seen outside of the Brabus/MBClassic/Kienle type places
And somewhat ambitiously priced
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That price is simply mind boggling
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Crazy prices. Give me an unmolested original or a car that's been wisely cared for over the years. Costs to restore, and "over-restore" (Hemmels) Pagodas has gotten steep.
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.../...somewhat ambitiously priced
Seeing this less than satisfactory result after a so called "restoration" fills me with not so good feelings... And IMHO it must be questioned to sell this car claiming originality,
especially with such a price tag >:(
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a) it’s worth what someone will pay for it
b) I am sure it’s a very nice car that will make an owner happy and may drive beautifully
c) not everyone cares about spot welds and firewall pads as much as some of us
but I too think it’s nuts on many levels. Particularly as most of those looking at the car when I was there were doing the”well, that’s wrong” thing.
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Crazy prices indeed, and the "Hemmels" association has crossed the continent to Australia.
This Hemmels restored 280SL was advertised for $429,000 (!!!) here in Sydney. Car sold very quickly and I wonder how this sale will start impacting prices here.
https://classicthrottleshop.com/1970-mercedes-benz-280-sl/
Regards
Franjo
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a) it’s worth what someone will pay for it
b) I am sure it’s a very nice car that will make an owner happy and may drive beautifully
c) not everyone cares about spot welds and firewall pads as much as some of us.../...
You are right James, and I do agree with you on these points a - c.
Scantily restored, and/or non-original, that may be up to the discretion of the buyers/owners. They pay, and choose their level of quality and originality.
What I am objecting to, and try to pinpoint in my writings, is the shift of facts that is happening in the marketplace. The practice of marketing/selling something that is not ok/original and push for it to be "as a Pagoda automobile looked when it was new".
If the sellers stated for instance "we have strived to reproduce" or "This is our rendering of a classic Mercedes" I would accept that better. Some humbleness put forth from the restorers.
Sometimes I feel like Don Quijote...
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I am with you Hans, restoring to original is one thing. All the extra “Shine” as in the engine bay of the Hemmels car in Franjo’s post above is certainly not what I picked up at the factory.
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Will the buyer that wants to give me £300,000 for my fully and correctly restored (estimated completion Oct 2020) RHD 5 speed 250SL please step forward!
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Stickandrudderman, I am with you. Let me know if anyone wants a LHD.
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I am with you Hans, restoring to original is one thing. All the extra “Shine” as in the engine bay of the Hemmels car in Franjo’s post above is certainly not what I picked up at the factory.
I chatted with Hemmels - the blue car is a customer spec car and their view is what the customer wants/pays for, they get (it has an ECU injection system, modern A/C...) . Alongside it they had a very nice (and getting no attention) restoration that may have been spot(weld) on. I don't think anyone from Hemmels is suggesting the blue car is "as factory". It's restored - arguably a resto-mod but many of us do that to a greater or lesser degree - but with no pretence of how it left Sindelfingen
The car I pictured may well be a super subtle resto-mod. But I think it's being pitched as a restoration. We can discuss until we are blue about it being a "correct" restoration but the panel gaps should be uniform regardless.
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We run into this when buying and selling vintage vehicles all the time. A lot of buyers with "deep pockets" know nothing about the car they are buying other than the model is a "collector item".
It is a lot like people buying stock. Somebody talks about it, hypes it up and they jump on it without doing their homework. Unscrupulous sellers take advantage of it and ask stratosphere prices and they get it.
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I chatted with Hemmels - the blue car is a customer spec car and their view is what the customer wants/pays for, they get (it has an ECU injection system, modern A/C...) . Alongside it they had a very nice (and getting no attention) restoration that may have been spot(weld) on. I don't think anyone from Hemmels is suggesting the blue car is "as factory". It's restored - arguably a resto-mod but many of us do that to a greater or lesser degree - but with no pretence of how it left Sindelfingen
The car I pictured may well be a super subtle resto-mod. But I think it's being pitched as a restoration. We can discuss until we are blue about it being a "correct" restoration but the panel gaps should be uniform regardless.
James, the car referred to in my post #17 was not about either of the two cars mentioned in your original post above. As I indicated, I was referring to the $429,000 Hemmels car in Australia mentioned in Franjo's post.
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Gotcha.
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Agree with mike entirely,over the years ive seen it with all
makes and models, and now especially in CA ,with high end expensive cars,
example i spent a quick 30 minutes at a Rodeo drive Holywood classic show,
as i had to catch plane out, only about 5 months ago, take alook at these photos,
unbelivable.
First 2 photos worst cars, i think a Delahaye, and the black one not sure make.
The other photos some fantastic examples, were fabulous,---sorry can only show 4 photos.
Bentley was the featured car for day.
Go to other cars in forum, to see 4 more photos from Holywood show,.
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Hi,
Having owned numerous 113's over the last 20 years and a background in classic car restoration. I should like to give my opinion of the Hemmels car and the £290,000 odd grand Graeme Hunt car.
Hemmels = Take a super rusty Pagoda, panel it up, paint it a really garish colour, highly polish everything within an inch of it's life. Finally, set up shop at the Nec, POA on the windscreen and await a victim with more money than sense.
Graeme Hunt= In all fairness GH does have some super cars......This wasn't one of them, many incorrect details throughout. Panel work misaligned prior to welding. Park your bike in door shut gaps.
In summary, a lot of very over priced and over restored cars at this years Nec.
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The Hemmels car was a customer spec car and the customer chose the specific colour - brought a paint sample to them
But the other one, I can only agree
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Agree with mike entirely,over the years ive seen it with all
makes and models, and now especially in CA ,with high end expensive cars,
example i spent a quick 30 minutes at a Rodeo drive Holywood classic show,
as i had to catch plane out, only about 5 months ago, take alook at these photos,
unbelivable.
First 2 photos worst cars, i think a Delahaye, and the black one not sure make.
The other photos some fantastic examples, were fabulous,---sorry can only show 4 photos.
Bentley was the featured car for day.
Go to other cars in forum, to see 4 more photos from Holywood show,.
What was wrong with the Delahaye? Looks like a nice car but pictures can fool you.
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The two cars are custom one off creations done by Rick Dore.
https://www.facebook.com/TheRickDore/