Author Topic: rear end swap 4.08 to 3.27 (Read 91684 times)

n/a · « **Reply #75 on:** March 15, 2004, 04:52:35 »

Weekend update, part 2.

I got the drive shaft out. Once I removed the transmission mount mounting plate, getting to the flex coupling bolts wasn't tough. I've got major seal problems (please take a look at http://www.johnlivingston.com/280sl_drive_shaft.htm). I'm assuming I should replace the rear transmission seal. Can I do that with it in the car?

Also, I ordered new u-joints not realizing the ones currently installed are staked in place and seemingly not user serviceable. Can a machine shop put the new ones in for me? What are the options here?

Thanks.

John

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

George Davis · « **Reply #76 on:** March 15, 2004, 10:23:40 »

John,

Sounds like you are having way too much fun. Here is some of my experience on the driveshaft, flex disk and trans seal:

The seal is easily replaced once the trans rear flange is off. The flange just pulls off when the nut is removed. The seal is not available as a separate piece, but comes in the complete trans gasket set. Or, a local bearing and seal shop can probably match it up, but slightly thinner (original is 10 mm thick, replacement I found was 9 mm, prolly would have worked, but I got the gasket set instead). Be careful when prying out the old seal, it's easy to damage the surrounding metal. Knock the new one in until it's flush with the rear face of the trans.

Getting the trans flange off requires a pin socket to match the nut inside the flange. Punch back the locking tabs, then remove nut. You may find it loose already, or might be able to use a punch to knock it out. You can also use a punch to knock it in, but a pin socket is more fun/less stress. Use a new locking ring.

One way of making a homemade pin nut socket can be found here:

http://pagoda113.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=3846000021&f=3296041521&m=328609527

Alternately, Samstag can probably sell you one.

On the flex disk, I have a personal rule: whenever the flex disk is unbolted, replace it and the nuts and bolts, no matter how new it is. If any of the bolts come loose, they will chew up the driveshaft flange, the trans flange, or both. The disk kit is $90-100, but that's a lot cheaper than a replacement driveshaft (around $450). Also, torque the bolts to spec.

Don't know if you can find a shop to replace your u-joints, and I'm not sure the original u-joints are even available. If you feel they are bad, you may be stuck with getting a replacement driveshaft. I got mine from Driveline Service in Portland, OR. There is at least one other place that sells them, check in Hemmings. The good thing about the one I got from Driveline Service is that the u-joints they use are replaceable, plus it includes a new center bearing.

Good luck, and thanks for all the postings on your project!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

n/a · « **Reply #77 on:** March 15, 2004, 14:03:38 »

At the rate I'm moving forward from the rear axle, I'm beginning to feel I'll start putting parts back in about the time I get the front bumper back from the chrome shop!

My second Samstagsales order came in today. Time to place another one, I guess, for that pin socket.

I was just assuming I should do the u-joints. Is there any easy way to tell if they're shot? The car only has 60K miles on it, so maybe I'm being premature.

I do have the flex disc, bolts, nuts, and washers, so all that will be replaced. I also have the new center bearing and rubber support.

What about the centering sleeve at the transmission end of the drive shaft? It looked like there might me grease leaking around that, although it may just be run off from the transmission seal.

John

quote:
Originally posted by George Davis

John,

Sounds like you are having way too much fun. Here is some of my experience on the driveshaft, flex disk and trans seal:

The seal is easily replaced once the trans rear flange is off. The flange just pulls off when the nut is removed. The seal is not available as a separate piece, but comes in the complete trans gasket set. Or, a local bearing and seal shop can probably match it up, but slightly thinner (original is 10 mm thick, replacement I found was 9 mm, prolly would have worked, but I got the gasket set instead). Be careful when prying out the old seal, it's easy to damage the surrounding metal. Knock the new one in until it's flush with the rear face of the trans.

Getting the trans flange off requires a pin socket to match the nut inside the flange. Punch back the locking tabs, then remove nut. You may find it loose already, or might be able to use a punch to knock it out. You can also use a punch to knock it in, but a pin socket is more fun/less stress. Use a new locking ring.

One way of making a homemade pin nut socket can be found here:

http://pagoda113.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=3846000021&f=3296041521&m=328609527

Alternately, Samstag can probably sell you one.

On the flex disk, I have a personal rule: whenever the flex disk is unbolted, replace it and the nuts and bolts, no matter how new it is. If any of the bolts come loose, they will chew up the driveshaft flange, the trans flange, or both. The disk kit is $90-100, but that's a lot cheaper than a replacement driveshaft (around $450). Also, torque the bolts to spec.

Don't know if you can find a shop to replace your u-joints, and I'm not sure the original u-joints are even available. If you feel they are bad, you may be stuck with getting a replacement driveshaft. I got mine from Driveline Service in Portland, OR. There is at least one other place that sells them, check in Hemmings. The good thing about the one I got from Driveline Service is that the u-joints they use are replaceable, plus it includes a new center bearing.

Good luck, and thanks for all the postings on your project!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

George Davis · « **Reply #78 on:** March 16, 2004, 09:08:50 »

John,

I was hoping Joe or Dan would jump in here. I don't know anything about the centering sleeve. The beauty of mulching one's driveshaft is that one gets a new centering sleeve with the new driveshaft! Just my 2 cents worth, though: that part of the d/s is greased, so seeing grease there wouldn't bother me. If the centering sleeve seems to fit well and shows no obvious wear, I'd probably assume it's ok. The flex disk kit should include a new rubber seal that goes between the trans flange and the end of the d/s, I assumed it's purpose was mainly to seal the end of the d/s and hold the grease in.

On u-joints, if there is any discernable play anywhere (lateral or rotational), or if there is any roughness as they move, I'd say replace. If they are smooth but stiff, I'd probably reuse. A driveshaft shop might be able to give you a good opinion, too. With only 60,000 miles, I'd expect them to be ok.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

n/a · « **Reply #79 on:** March 16, 2004, 20:17:01 »

I contacted the Driveline Service of Portland folks via e-mail. They quoted me $483 for a new, improved driveshaft, with free ground shipping, and a $75 core charge. Scott there said, "You can check your joints simply by feeling them. If they any major
hitches in them or any slop or visible rust there bad. On a average theses shaft usually go around 200,000 mi. before they need replacement." (typos his - I'm assuming he's referring to the drive shaft joints and not my own).

Mine, er - I mean my driveshaft's - aren't sloppy at all. The more forward one feels fine; the rear one is a bit stiff, but moves smoothly. Guess I'll stay with what I've got for now.

I also e-mailed (are you getting the impression that I'm not a phone fan?) Samstagsales about the pin socket. I gave them the part number out of the BBB. They don't normally stock one, but can order it direct from MB DE for a mere $227! Back to making one from scratch. Her's a quote from Andrew at SS so they'll have equal time: "But maybe you need the Sir Tools M0032, we don't have a cross reference for the MB tool number. Does the nut have 6 slots or 4 slots?" Well, looking at George Davis's homemade unit, I'm going with 4. No details of the Sir Tools M0032 on their website, so I'll have to see what they say when I give them the 4 pins info.

All this e-mailing sure keeps my fingernails clean!

John

quote:
Originally posted by George Davis

John,

I was hoping Joe or Dan would jump in here. I don't know anything about the centering sleeve. The beauty of mulching one's driveshaft is that one gets a new centering sleeve with the new driveshaft! Just my 2 cents worth, though: that part of the d/s is greased, so seeing grease there wouldn't bother me. If the centering sleeve seems to fit well and shows no obvious wear, I'd probably assume it's ok. The flex disk kit should include a new rubber seal that goes between the trans flange and the end of the d/s, I assumed it's purpose was mainly to seal the end of the d/s and hold the grease in.

On u-joints, if there is any discernable play anywhere (lateral or rotational), or if there is any roughness as they move, I'd say replace. If they are smooth but stiff, I'd probably reuse. A driveshaft shop might be able to give you a good opinion, too. With only 60,000 miles, I'd expect them to be ok.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

n/a · « **Reply #80 on:** March 17, 2004, 07:36:16 »

Samstagsales says there are two Sir Tools sockets that might be a match. One is M0029, which has the following dimensions (I'm assuming OD, ID, and width of the pin?) 38mm, 32.25mm, 6mm. (the 1.5 inch tubing translates to 38mm, BTW). The other tool, M0032, has dimensions of 42.50mm, 35.25mm, and 5.5mm.

Sounds like the M0029 is the more likely candidate. Any opinions? Alas, they didn't quote a price, so I don't know yet if this is worth pursuing.

John

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #81 on:** March 18, 2004, 06:24:49 »

John,
M0029 is the tool for the gearbox nut and
M0030 fot the diff pinion.
If memory serves me right they were around $50.00 each.
naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

n/a · « **Reply #82 on:** March 18, 2004, 06:58:36 »

Thanks, Naj. Samstagsales did come back to me with at $54.95 quote on the M0029. Has there ever been any discussion of a tool-sharing adjunct to this group? Seems like we're all busy accumulating tools we'll use once or twice. I know there are lots of potential problems with that sort of thing, but maybe if we had some sort of premium membership, where you put some extra dough in as a tool deposit, or some such. I think I'll start a new thread and see how goofy folks think I am.

John

quote:
Originally posted by naj

John,
M0029 is the tool for the gearbox nut and
M0030 fot the diff pinion.
If memory serves me right they were around $50.00 each.
naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #83 on:** March 18, 2004, 09:03:05 »

Well, John
Mine have been to Ireland since I've had them.
naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

Ben · « **Reply #84 on:** March 19, 2004, 08:55:00 »

quote:
Mine have been to Ireland since I've had them

Yep....and a fine job they did too !!

I still owe you for that BTW !

maybe a crate of Guinness ??

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

n/a · « **Reply #85 on:** April 06, 2004, 17:21:08 »

I've been pretty much waiting for parts and tools, primarily the pin socket for the transmission and the seal kit for same. The socket arrived yesterday and I promptly removed the pinion nut, although it took an 18" flex handle to budge the darned thing. I was happy to have a strong tool to grip the durned thing with.

I need some tips on getting the rear tranny seal out without screwing anything up. I tried, fairly gently, prying it out but didn't get it to budge. How much trouble can I get myself into pulling that rear cover off and getting the seal out on the bench? I've got a new gasket for the cover.

Once the new seal is in, I should start putting parts back in, rather than taking more out. The weather is cooperating a bit more, plus I have most of next week off, so I'm hoping to move forward on this a bit more quickly.

John "Who Just Ordered a New Soft Top and Better Get Something Finished Soon" Livingston

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

Ben · « **Reply #86 on:** April 08, 2004, 02:40:06 »

I had the same trouble getting out a stubborn seal. Someone recommended buying a "Seal Remover" which I did at a local factors. I had it out in about 30 seconds. Its almost "T" shaped but gets behind the seal without damaging anything. Cheap at about $5 !!

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

n/a · « **Reply #87 on:** April 16, 2004, 12:57:39 »

I did get one of the "T" shaped seal removers. I still couldn't get the darned thing out, so I pulled the rear transmission cover. The seal popped right out on my bench. I think I would've had a real problem getting the new seal installed in situ anyway. It did go in very smoothly using my bench vise as a press.

I've reassembled the rear cover, with new seal, new gasket, and hopefully all the shims in the proper places. It marks, at long last, the beginning of switching all my ratchets to "tighten" instead of "loosen." I was hoping to replace the speedo cable while down there, but figured I might as well wait until I've taken the proper measurements with the current one in place before sending the speedo unit off to be recalibrated.

Time to put the transmission yoke, etc., back together, and then on to sliding in the drive shaft, with new new center bearing. One source I saw said the yoke should be installed with some lock tite, even though you use that locking washer on the pin nut. Any thoughts on that?

Any tips on making sure I do a good job with the flexible coupling install? I do have all new parts for that as well.

After that, I've got a new rear transmission mount to put in and then should be able to move farther rearward.

Thanks.

John

quote:
Originally posted by Ben

I had the same trouble getting out a stubborn seal. Someone recommended buying a "Seal Remover" which I did at a local factors. I had it out in about 30 seconds. Its almost "T" shaped but gets behind the seal without damaging anything. Cheap at about $5 !!

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

Download Attachment:

trans_cover_in2.jpg
79.71 KB

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

Benz Dr. · « **Reply #88 on:** April 16, 2004, 22:32:27 »

I've never use lock tight on amything. I use more anti sieze than anything else. I've seen these nuts where they were loose but I think they weren't tightened up to begin with. The thread is very fine and will really snug down with the big wrenches you need. It won't come back off easily or at all.

Dan c

Daniel G Caron

n/a · « **Reply #89 on:** April 18, 2004, 12:29:27 »

I skipped the Lok-Tite on the yoke nut and just snugged it down per the torque specs in Haynes. I also mashed the lock washer back against it, too, so I'd be surprised if it budged.

I've got the flexible coupling in and the drive shaft attached. The trans mount bracket is bolted in (I just remembered I didn't tightened the two upper nuts - best go do that!). I'm at the point of having just put the mount back in and am scratching my head over how the big bolt that goes through the trans cover plate and into the mount sandwiches the various parts I seem to have left over. Please look at the attachment. There's a brass-colored shaped metal washer that mates up to the bottom of the mount. There's a very thick metal washer. There was also a rubber washer that's pretty much shot. I'll attach that to my next post. Are these rubber dingies available, and where does it fit in in the sequence of washers, etc.?

John

quote:
Originally posted by Benz Dr.

I've never use lock tight on amything. I use more anti sieze than anything else. I've seen these nuts where they were loose but I think they weren't tightened up to begin with. The thread is very fine and will really snug down with the big wrenches you need. It won't come back off easily or at all.

Dan c

Daniel G Caron

Download Attachment:

trans_mount2.jpg
55.7 KB

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

n/a · « **Reply #90 on:** April 18, 2004, 12:33:01 »

Here's the shot of the rubber washer/grommet.

thanks.

John

Download Attachment:

trans_mount_washer.jpg
47.94 KB

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #91 on:** April 19, 2004, 02:48:05 »

John,
Now here's what you need to 'drive' that 3.27 diff:

Download Attachment:

V8_5002.JPG
45.76 KB

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

n/a · « **Reply #92 on:** April 19, 2004, 05:36:10 »

Lovely! I like the body color, too! Now, just where did you hide the power brake booster?

(I'd actually toyed with the idea of getting a complete 118 4.5 and seeing how tight a squeeze the engine would be.)

John

quote:
Originally posted by naj

John,
Now here's what you need to 'drive' that 3.27 diff:

Download Attachment: V8_5002.JPG
45.76 KB

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #93 on:** April 19, 2004, 07:15:56 »

Its over the other side with a blue label (right hand drive car!)
naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

Ben · « **Reply #94 on:** April 19, 2004, 07:58:34 »

Come on Naj........tell us more

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #95 on:** April 19, 2004, 10:02:58 »

Hi, Ben,
The car belongs to John Haynes who runs a very nice Merc garage on the South Coast (of England).I attended a 107 workshop he ran last Saturday.
He bought a 230 body shell (where the previous owner had sold all the running gear) and put in what he could find. Originally it had a 450 iron block but now it has a 5.0 litre V8 with 4 speed auto (This engine is lighter than a straight six pagoda engine). Rear axle is from a 280SE 3.5. Sorry didn't ask what ratio.
The car was in a corner in his show room so I could only take pictures of the engine (with his permission of course!). And its NOT for sale.

Download Attachment:

V8_5004.JPG
36.07 KB

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

Ben · « **Reply #96 on:** April 20, 2004, 02:26:05 »

Jeeeeez !

I heard about the tech session on the Club site, somebody needs to get him to write an article !

Think you could twist his arm Naj ??

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

n/a · « **Reply #97 on:** April 25, 2004, 19:24:46 »

Weekend update #43, or something close.

I finally got the compensating spring back in place. I've got a pic somewhere of what I ended up doing to get it in. I'll post that fascinating tidbit tomorrow.

I finished up with the transmission mount and have the plate back in place.

I'm trying to replace all the rubber bits on the locating strut. I've removed the bolts and one nut on the right hand side, but the assembly seems to hang up internally. I've posted some pictures to this page http://www.johnlivingston.com/280sl_locating_strut.htm
hoping someone will look at it and give me some tips.

Once that's sorted out, I have to get the hand brake cables attached to the shoes, and then it'll be time to lift the durned thing back into place.

John

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

hands_aus · « **Reply #98 on:** April 26, 2004, 07:54:58 »

Hey John,

The part number of the little rubber bush for the locating strut is 111-351-04-48
I went to the K&K maunfacturing site and used their OLD catalogue setting and extracted the part number from there. Price was $15.55 USD.

Bob (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

n/a · « **Reply #99 on:** April 27, 2004, 19:00:40 »

Thanks for the part number, Bob, I'll get those ordered pronto.

I'm still having a headache getting the locating strut out so I can replace the rubber bits. There were four bolts and one nut holding it in. These have all been removed. I also removed the end that attaches to the axle so I'd have no trouble pushing the rod from the driver's side. Something is still hanging up internally that prevents the bottom portion of the unit to move more than about 1/4 of an inch. This is centered around the protruding stud that the one bolt screwed down on.

Any ideas on this? I can get a closer shot if the previous ones weren't clear enough.

Thanks.

John

quote:
Originally posted by hands_aus

Hey John,

The part number of the little rubber bush for the locating strut is 111-351-04-48
I went to the K&K maunfacturing site and used their OLD catalogue setting and extracted the part number from there. Price was $15.55 USD.

Bob (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

John Livingston
Newport News, VA
1968 280SL 4 speed manual

News:

Author Topic: rear end swap 4.08 to 3.27 (Read 91684 times)

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