Author Topic: Olson sport/progressive springs? (Read 17430 times)

harleydan · « **on:** December 21, 2005, 12:33:39 »

I talked to John Olson about upgrading my springs on my car (1970 280SL). John recommended his sport springs in the front and his progressive springs in the back. Most if not all of the dialogue that I read in this forum have used his progressive springs all around. Has anyone used this combination (John Olson sport springs in front with his progressive spring in back), or have an opinion in how well this particualr combination will work, or should I go progressive springs all around?

Bob G · « **Reply #1 on:** December 21, 2005, 14:57:48 »

I am glad some one brought up the John Olson spring again to this forum. this has been an on going problem to get the height right for front and rear. I am glad to see The video was posted with Jim vilers from the 190SL group.
I think the mechanic who I used to install the progressive rate springs took me to the cleaners and did not due a good job. Tis is an on going project that I hope I can get fixed soon.

Bob Geco

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #2 on:** December 21, 2005, 16:01:09 »

I would go with John's suggestions - he is very knowledgeable about this subject and no doubt has good reasons for his recommendation.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

RBurg · « **Reply #3 on:** December 22, 2005, 17:09:34 »

Bob:
Up date is very much appericated. Where did you find the large sway bar? Unable to find one over the standard 19mm. Did you have yours custom made? If so where and what was the cost.

Ron
71 280SL Tobacco "O GIGI"
97 E420 Silver Mist

JimVillers · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2005, 13:01:51 »

Ron .... The stiffer sway bar is 30mm and is made by Cox Racing http://www.coxracingroup.com/. I believe that they charge about $350 for the bar. I got mine used from a member who thought that the ride was a little harsh. I love it. When combined with poly bushings, it greatly tightens the suspension during cornering.

I could not find the item from their home page but here is a link to the sway bar:
http://www.coxracingroup.com/CART.ASP?whichpage=12&mode=price&item=161
It may or may not still be available.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

harleydan · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2005, 19:47:06 »

Jim,

About 2 months ago, I called Andrew of Cox Racing and inquired about the 30MM sway bar. Unfortunatley, he does not sale that item anymore. Maybe if there is a group interest, he would reconsider.

Arjun · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2005, 18:15:09 »

Pls count me in for the sway bar.

Thank you,

1967 250SL 5-Speed

harleydan · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2005, 19:05:52 »

I called Andrew at Cox Racingroup again I asked him if there was a group order for the 30mm front sway bar for the Mercedes W113 would he reconsider making some more. Andrew said if he had a order of at least ten (10) sway bars he would have them made and charge $350 a piece. Any takers?

I have a bigger 230SL front sway bar coming hopefully soon for my 280SL so I probably at this time will not opt to get the 30mm Cox sway bar, unless the 30mm sway bar is significantly better than the sway bar that comes off the 230SL.

RBurg · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2005, 20:06:41 »

Dear Harleydan: If I may ask - who are you ordering your 30mm sway bar
from?

I would be interested in the 30mm bar from cox.

Thanks

Ron
71 280SL Tobacco "O GIGI"
97 E420 Silver Mist

harleydan · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2005, 21:22:25 »

Ron,

The 30mm front sway bar would come from Cox Racingroup. It is from the same company that made the 30mm sway bar as mentioned in the earlier forums. So far there are only two people (Ron and Arjun) who have indicated that they would want to be part of the group order (of at least 10) to get the 30mm sway bar. Any others? There needs to be at least 10. I am only facilitating this order to assist those who want this particular sway bar for their W113.

Bob G · « **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2005, 16:50:38 »

I e-mailed cox racing on knowing about installation of the 30MM front sway bar. No Response. Now I read here their is a chance of Cox racing making a limited number of front sway bars. Before I committ I would like to fine out more from some of the group who have instaleed this sway bar.

Bob Geco
1987 Ford Mustang LX 5.0
1968 280SL
1992 300-E Sport line

Kenneth Gear · « **Reply #11 on:** December 30, 2005, 20:24:22 »

My car had the cox 30mm sway bar installed when I bought it and I like it. If you are ever in DC, let me know you're welcome to drive it.

Ken G
1971 280 SL
Silver/red

rwmastel · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2006, 12:25:12 »

quote:
Originally posted by harleydan

I have a bigger 230SL front sway bar coming hopefully soon for my 280SL so I probably at this time will not opt to get the 30mm Cox sway bar, unless the 30mm sway bar is significantly better than the sway bar that comes off the 230SL.

Dan,
Can you describe the differences between the standard MB 230SL sway bar and the Cox Racinggroup 30mm sway bar?

At some point I will need to replace all the rubber and the shocks in my 230SL and that would be the time to swap out the sway bar.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

harleydan · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2006, 18:43:45 »

Rodd,

I am not an expert on the difference between the two front sway bars. I do not even have either one of them since I have the smaller sway bar from the 280SL. But for what is it worth....the Cox sway bar is 8-9mm bigger than the 230SL one. A larger sway bar provides more rigidity and tightens the suspension on turns; however, there is a possibility that the ride may be a bit harsh for some.

Kenneth Gear · « **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2006, 06:46:48 »

I would just add that the larger sway bar fits just like the original -- no modification necessary.

Ken G
1971 280 SL
Silver/red

harleydan · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2007, 08:21:50 »

I finally got around to having the suspension fully rebuilted.....new custom John Olson springs, new Bilstein shocks, new lower and upper control arm kits, larger sway bar (from 230SL), new sway bar mounts, king pin kit, new rear spring pad bushings, new subframe mounts, new braided brake lines, and new ceramic brake pads. What a difference! The car handles and feels great and tight based on my initial impressions while driving it home. However, due to the recent road condition in the Colorado area, I really did not have a chance to really test it out. Can't wait until the road conditions improve.

I soon might change my current Michelin mud and snow rated tires to a fair weather high speed tire.

My only negatively is that the front end is about 1.5 inches higher and the rear end is 1.0 inches higher than I wanted...I like the looks of a lower profile with the front end being just a tad lower than the back. The front springs pads were changed out to the lowest possible. So one option is to cut the springs but I really do not want to do that to my custom springs. Any suggestions?

Cheers,
Danny
1970 280SL silver Euro 4 speed

rwmastel · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2007, 10:51:55 »

quote:
Originally posted by harleydan

I finally got around to having the suspension fully rebuilted.....new custom John Olson springs,....

My only negatively is that the front end is about 1.5 inches higher and the rear end is 1.0 inches higher than I wanted...I like the looks of a lower profile with the front end being just a tad lower than the back. The front springs pads were changed out to the lowest possible. So one option is to cut the springs but I really do not want to do that to my custom springs. Any suggestions?

Danny,

Hi. Were these truly "custom", as you specified the spring characteristics, or are they what Olsen sells for all 280SL customers? If they're the typical Olsen progressive rate springs, maybe he can have his spring source make some really custom springs for you and you can return the ones you have. He can sell those to the next guy.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

Dick M · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2007, 11:33:18 »

Take a look at Jim Villers video on Shocks and Springs
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jim+villers&hl=en

TR · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2007, 19:17:38 »

Dick -- That is a terrific video. Thanks to both you and Jim for doing it, and for posting the link. I've forwarded the link to my mechanical guy. Even though all of the suspension was recently redone I think we'll now do a little bit of additional tweaking & tuning.

Trust all is well there in beautiful Nevada City!

quote:
Originally posted by Dick M

Take a look at Jim Villers video on Shocks and Springs
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jim+villers&hl=en

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

Dick M · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2007, 03:20:51 »

Tom...
Thanks.. Jim's video has had about 750 hits. The Blacklick Tech Session linked from our club home page has had over 2200 hits and 30 downloads (according to Google) ...royalties are not that great however.

I'm surprised that anything remains to "tweak" on your car.

All is good here in Nevada City... come for spring visit.

Dick M
1970 280SL

Raymond · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2007, 16:13:09 »

I bought springs from Coil Spring Specialties in St. Mary's Kansas. 20% linear front and progressive to 20% in the rear. Under $400 for the set. My front was almost two inches too high with the thinnest pads. I cut about 2-1/2 linear inches off of the spring coils and dropped the height a full inch. I am going to go back and take another 1-1/2 off the springs when I get a chance.

On the rear, I used progressive springs. They were about an inch too high. I cut two linear inches off the bottom of the coil and the ride height came down to perfect.

I put Koni Classic shocks on all four courners. The rear are perfect with the settings from Jim Viller's video. The front are too stiff with the linear springs. When I cut the front, I'll back off the shock stiffness a half a turn and I think it will be just what I wanted.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

Bob G · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2007, 17:59:17 »

Does anyone have a good suspension alignment shop or mechanic in Los Angeles, California who knows the suspension on our cars. I have not been able to get my ride height correct since I purchased the John Olson springs and want to get a person who can correctly dial it in and fix the problem.

Front suspension bushing are fine replaced swaybar bushing front. Rear has all new bushing and I am running 185/ TR 14 rainforce michelins new. on factory steel rims.

Bob Geco
1968 280SL
bobgeco@cs.com
310-839-8337

harleydan · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2007, 22:37:12 »

Bob G...did you try changing to thicker or thinner spring pads to get the clearances that you want? In addition, I have heard of people grinding the spring pads to get them even closer to the clearance wanted because the pads only come in a few sizes.

Raymond...when I look at the springs - both stock and John Olson, I noticed that the coils are much closer at the ends as compared to the middle. When you cut/shorten your springs, how did you make them fix/sit properly in the spring pads? How do you know how much to cut off the springs in order to get the required drop? Unfortunatley, I have non-adjustable relatively new Bilsteins shocks on mine so I can not compensate for whatever changes I make to the John Olson springs. Nevertheless, I would not mind a firmer ride if I can get the look (a bit lower) and handling (better in turns and being more level upon braking/acceleration).

Cheers,
Danny
1970 280SL silver Euro 4 speed

Raymond · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2007, 06:58:58 »

Danny,
The front springs on the bottom end don't flatten out, the coil just stops. That's the bottom where the A arm it sits in is shaped to hold it. The pad at the top is notched to sit at the end of the coil, so it can rotate anywhere and the pad is still flat against the top.

The rear springs are progressive and the coils get progressively closer together toward the top. Therefore cutting the bottom is the same as for the front.

How much to cut is trial and error. I'd rather cut too little and have to do it again, than cut too much. Thanks to some great advice from Jim Villers, I found that cutting very little off of the linear measure of the steel (not the height of the coil) makes a big difference in ride height. That's why I did two inches from the end of the steel as the first experiment. It was perfect for the back. If I had cut more, I could have made the difference with thicker pads, or the boiler washer that Jim used on his cars.

The rear springs are no problem. But because the front springs are so much harder to do, I will next do only one and put the car back on the gound to see how close I've gotten. Then if I'm too conservative in the cut, I'll only have one to do over and can do the second side to match.

It isn't complicated but you need a way to get the car high enough, a jack that can ease off and compress the A arm, and a second person. You also,really should study the Blacklick video of Jim Villers explaining the method. If you can't download it, let me know.

The braking nosedive and cornering improvements are terrific!

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

harleydan · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2007, 08:41:51 »

Ray,

Thanks for the info...

And if I did switch to Koni shocks, which specific ones do you use/recommend? Can the Konis be adjusted while mounted on the car or do they have to be taken off (partly or whole)?

Cheers,
Danny
1970 280SL silver Euro 4 speed

Raymond · « **Reply #25 on:** February 18, 2007, 11:01:09 »

The Koni Classics are the adjustable ones. They have to be disconnected at one end to be adjusted. The internal part of the center slide is notched like a screwdriver so you compress the shock all the way and turn it to feel it engage, the count the turns. It's continuously adjustable, so it's a feel. I think the entire range is a little over three turns. It isn't hard to do. It's a one person job.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

jameshoward · « **Reply #26 on:** February 18, 2007, 15:28:39 »

Danny,

I've just had my Koni (rear) shocks delivered and have had a play with them. Ray is spot on - they adjust over a range of 3 complete turns and the difference is pretty considerable across the range. I can get you the model number if you require. I will fit them this week and see how I get on. I also have a lop sided car. I will start with the shocks and go from there.

James

rwmastel · « **Reply #27 on:** February 18, 2007, 22:38:02 »

quote:
Originally posted by harleydan

Nevertheless, I would not mind a firmer ride if I can get the look (a bit lower) and handling (better in turns and being more level upon braking/acceleration).

Danny,

Have you considered a larger (230SL version) front sway bar?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

harleydan · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2007, 08:28:57 »

Rod...Yes, I have already installed the larger sway bar from a 230SL.

James and Ray, please pass on the model number for the front and rear Koni shocks. When you installed the Koni shocks, did it change the car's clearance? When I had my front Bilsteins installed for some unkown reason, it changed the front clearance about 2-3 inches. Does the Konis have the ability to change its quiescence installed height so as to affect clearance? I wonder if there is a difference between the Konis and Bilsteins in that one exert more static pressure against the springs so as to affect clearance height more.

I read someplace that someone had installed a rear sway bar on their W113. It is my belief that these cars normally does not have a rear sway bar, so does anybody have more details about this? ...Can it actually be done? Where can one get a rear sway bar? How did it change the car's handling characteristics? How much did it cost? What modifications, if any, would have to be done to the car?

Cheers,
Danny
1970 280SL

jameshoward · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2007, 13:02:31 »

Danny,

Koni rear shocks are KON80 - 1416. They cost me around $150 for the pair less shipping and tax, which is a pretty good price. I got them from the UK. Shipping to the US would be expensive given their weight. They are black and marked 'KONI CLASSIC;' - so no surprises there. Note that no one had them in stock. (I tried Germany and the UK). They had to be specially ordered from Koni in Holland, which took about 2 weeks. You may have more luck in the US.

My mechanic said the new Bilsteins will change the ride height because of the way they are filled now a days. He said they will push the car up a little. The Koni's will not do this, which I why I am going to fit them. (I have Bilsteins on the front and will change them to Koni's when I have the money and when the important jobs are done; my rear shocks have both failed and I need them to pass the German TUV test before I can drive my car).

As I understand it, the koni's can only be adjusted for dampening, not height. I will fit them later this week and see whether I get any closer to sorting out my lop-sided issues. I'll post the results.

Hope that helps.

James

Raymond · « **Reply #30 on:** February 19, 2007, 14:12:19 »

www.Koni-na.com Has a lot of info.

Koni North America. Front Part #80-1415 Rear part #80-1416 $219 per pair and they ship in one day. Expensive, but I'm very happy with their action.

I changed the springs at the same time as the shocks, but I don't believe they lift the car the way the gas-charged Bilsteins do. The Konis do what shocks should and control the rapid movement of the suspension.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

al_lieffring · « **Reply #31 on:** February 20, 2007, 08:54:34 »

quote:
Originally posted by harleydan

I read someplace that someone had installed a rear sway bar on their W113. It is my belief that these cars normally does not have a rear sway bar, so does anybody have more details about this? ...Can it actually be done? Where can one get a rear sway bar? How did it change the car's handling characteristics? How much did it cost? What modifications, if any, would have to be done to the car?

Cheers,
Danny
1970 280SL

The 300 series (109)sedans and (112)coupes had a rear sway bar installed as part of the air suspension system. I dont rember the details of how or where they attached to the frame and rear axle but with a little welding I imagine it could be installed on a pagoda axle.

Al

66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket

harleydan · « **Reply #32 on:** February 22, 2007, 19:45:59 »

I saw on ebay item number

270063960148

advertised as W113 Koni Red shocks with the same part number as the Koni Classic/Black. What is the difference between the Koni Red and Koni Black shocks (other than the color)? Has anyone dealt with this particular seller? Has anyone put the Reds on their car?

Thanks,
Danny

rwmastel · « **Reply #33 on:** February 22, 2007, 22:02:15 »

quote:
Originally posted by harleydan

Has anyone put the Reds on their car?

Ask (via e-mail?) these Koni Red owners. Search tool rules!

http://index.php?topic=4414
http://index.php?topic=4023
http://index.php?topic=3702 (Koni yellow)
http://index.php?topic=3625

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

harleydan · « **Reply #34 on:** April 26, 2007, 07:54:53 »

James Howard,

Did you install the Koni shocks yet? If you had, what were the results?

Thanks,
Danny
1970 280SL Euro silver manual

jameshoward · « **Reply #35 on:** April 26, 2007, 12:43:27 »

Hi Danny,

Check out my posts in the current thread about replacing shocks. In short, I ended up replacing the rear shocks. The front ones when tested were near 90% functionality and I didn't want to throw money away when there's so much more to do.

The car has been driven very little because of the other other other work that needed doing. (It now refuses to start). However, I am happy with the Konis for now. I just can't give you a really useful view at this stage purely because I've not clocked up many miles.

I can add that they have really stiffened up the ride. I have them on a 50% setting and the car rolls far less. However, I may turn them back by one third. They are also a doddle to fit since they aren't pressurised.

Sorry I can't be of more help. I'd be very interested to see how you get on.

James

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Author Topic: Olson sport/progressive springs? (Read 17430 times)

harleydan

Bob G

RBurg

harleydan

Arjun

harleydan

RBurg

harleydan

Bob G

harleydan

harleydan

Dick M

TR

Dick M

Bob G

harleydan

harleydan

harleydan

al_lieffring

harleydan

harleydan