Replacing my engine .... Celebration Time!

[Cees Klumper]

Here's an update on our looong thread of last May/June, concerning the 280 (M130) engine rebuild Joe Alexander and I did then in Ohio. The engine made its way back to Amsterdam and I am now working on getting the old one out, in order to fit the rebuilt one. Some comments:
- removing the hood was easier than I thought
- there are more connections to "the rest of the car" than I had realized: there are many, many coolant hoses, electrical connections, fuel lines, oil tubes, air intake and exhaust connections, that all need to be undone.
- In attempting to drain the radiator I did what Joe had warned me for: I applied just a little force to the drain plug and the whole assembly came right out of the radiator body. Soldered in place it was, and today I will try to solder it back in that same place. If unsuccesfull, I will take it to a radiator shop. Pity, because I had no cooling problems and the radiator looks like a more recent (less than 10 years) replacement unit.
- I am taking the opportunity to clean everything that is coming out really well: hoses, throttle linkage, air filter canister, hose clamps etc etc etc. This is (for me at least) a fun activity that returns most items to looking almost like new. Does take a lot of time.
Here's a photo of Joe and I after finishing up the new engine (at 2 AM) back in June, and back in Ohio:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/ja17/200361302859_P1010076.jpg
More to come ...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Today I:
- removed the fuel filter canister (there is a lot of fuel in there that flows right out if you're not careful)
- separated the power steering hoses at the steering box (the oil flows right out even if you're careful)
- undid the 6 bolts from the exhaust manifolds to the downpipes (these are tricky to get at)
- removed the heat shield attached to the intake manifold
- removed the intake manifold
- disconnected the starter motor wires
- took out the alternator
- attempted to repair the radiator: only partly succesfull - will have to follow-up tomorrow
I am following the instructions in the Haynes manual - so far so good. Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to get the engine-and-auto-transmission out, using my heavy-duty (2000 lb) hoist, so I can start transplanting the various odd pieces from my old engine onto the new one (distributor, injectors and lines, starter motor, power steering box, water pump etc etc etc).

Only today did I realize that most of the larger aluminum parts on my engine have been painted by a previous owner with some sort of matte-silver finish, probably spray-painted on. It actually looks good and clean, compared to the dull aluminum that would be original. I think I will keep this coating on, if it cleans up (from grease etc) well.

Question - does anyone know if the exhaust manifolds can be coated with anything that will keep them from looking like the rust-covered cast iron bits that they are? Or are all spray/paint products prone to fail at these extreme temperatures.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[ja17]

Hello Cees,
Consider removing the cylinder head while in the car. It is in a nice stable and easy to work location. It's removal will make the rest of the engine removal easier. Also you do not need to break the chain, just drop it into the chain gallery after removing the camshaft sprocket. The intake manifold nuts are your biggest challenge but will be easy with the correct tools. Use a 14mm swival socket with a long extension on most. Don't worry about the difficult exhaust manifold/frt. pipe bolts. After unhooking the head, jack up the exhaust and the head can be slid off the exhaust manifolds. This makes working on the difficult six exhaust pipe/manifold bolts very easy. With the head off many of the difficult starter, engine/transmission bolts and others are easy. Carry on!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Douglas]

http://www.jet-hot.com/



Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #018260

[Cees Klumper]

Hey, Joe and Doug on/line at the same time! Thanks very much for the pointers.

I already removed the 6 exhaust bolts, I´ve done this so many times before in trying to get them to stay tight, I can almost do it with my eyes closed. After doing this about six times without success, I deduced that the problem is in the downpipes and not in the bolts/nuts. I have a new stainless steel exhaust ready to go in when the new engine is in place.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[W14]

Hi Cees,

1. I sandblasted the exhaust headers, and then coated with the POR-15 High-Heat/Anti-Rust coating.  They have only 400 miles on them, but no sign of any change due to heating yet.

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2. With the exhaust manifolds removed, and thus easy access to the starter wiring, I added a wire to the starter solenoid terminal to serve as "remote starter" lead.  I paired this wire with the pos. batt. cable, also threading it through the metal/rubber batt. cable grommets attached to the front oil-pan bolts. The wire stops just short of the pos. batt. terminal, so it can't accidently touch.  Makes it easy to turn the engine over for dwell adjustments, etc.



Will W14
1965 230SL 4spd
Victoria,BC

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks for the tips Will. I will try to get my hands on POR or Jet-Hot for the manifolds. Today I removed the automatic transmission filler tube and the vacuum tube (they are loosely attached together). Drained the auto trans fluid first. I also removed the long heat shield underneath the car, and removed the wires connected to the trans. I discovered too late that the three wires are of a different size, so I labelled them unnecessarily. Then I removed the heavy-gauge metal support plate that the automatic transmission "sits" on. Sixteen 17mm bolts. I had another go at soldering the radiator drain plug assemby back in place, but the silver/lead solder does not seem to want to "mate" with the copper too well. Will try again with a different solder. I removed the rear-exhaust manifold. I also removed the two black aluminum grille parts - these I will repaint, along with the other parts that should be (glossy or flat) black. It's like remoddeling your home: for a long time, it will only start to look worse and worse.

I am taking my time in cleaning all the parts that are coming off, from grime/oily deposits, using a basic degreaser (kerosene-like fluid) and, sometimes, brake cleaner. When I got home this evening, I had plenty of dirty clothes, and my own hair, to wash as well ...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[George Des]

Cees,

I did the same thing on my radiator. While trying to open the pet cok, the whole assembly torqued off the radiator. To solder it back on, you need to approach it the same way you would do your home plumbing of copper pipes. Make sure both the part you soldder on and the area on the radiator where it goes are thoroughly cleaned and roughed up with some emery cloth or sandpaper. Coat the radiator area and part with some solder flux-- put the parts together and then heat with a propone torch directing the flame first at the fitting. Keep touching a tip of solder to the opposite side of the fitting from where the flame is directed. Once the solder starts to melt direct the flame more on to the radiator section and then touch the solder to the joint area. The solder should be drawn into the gap-- let it cool and you should be done--Good Luck--George

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks a lot George! This will get the job done. I never soldered with a torch before ...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[graphic66]

Make sure when soldering your radiator you use acid core solder and not rosin core. Get liquid acid flux also. Clean everything till it shines and then heat the metal and let the metal melt the solder. Keep a wet cotton rag handy to wipe excess off and to cool. The first step usually involves tinning the parts before assembly, this means getting the mating surfaces coated with the solder in a nice even covering almost like they were plated. Any voids at this time mean the parts are dirty and need to be cleaned better. After tinning put the parts together and clamp if nesasary, you may need some heat to get the p[arts mated after tinning, then apply heat and flux and solder to join the parts and wipe off excess with the wet rag. Any water or antifreeze present will ruin your job, if you see it bubbling and steaming when soldering stop and clean the part some more. Most of the time it is easier to remove the part and do the work on a bench with gravity in your favor. After soldering do a bench test. The cheap way is to block all openings with hoses and clamps and get a moutain bicycle tube 2:00x26 cut it in half and clamp each end over the radiator hose nipples and pump air in the tubes valve and let it set with the tube infalted. I have used this method several times and it works. The main thing is the proper solder and cleanliness. I use my oxy actelene torch mainly, however on a small job propane will work. Hope this helps.

[n/a]

I am interested to see how the POR 15 exhaust coating holds up. So far, in my limited experience, nothing beats Jet-Hot. Another Forum that I look in on is the GT40s Forum and these cars have significant exhaust heat problems (big motor, poor air circulation under the rear deck, etc). Jet-Hot has worked best for the other GT40 owners. POR 15, though, costs less and you don'thave to send the exhaust system in. Interesting.

[Ben]

I went to my local motorfactor and just bought a can specifically for coating exhaust manifolds. I sprayed it black and that was almost 8 months ago. It hasn't flaked with daily use !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[Cees Klumper]

This afternoon I managed to pull the engine and auto transmission out of the car. It turned out not to be too difficult, after some minor 'glitches' not really covered in the Haynes step-by-step description. All in all it must have taken me at least about two full days, although an appreciable amount of time was spent cleaning all the parts coming out, including all of the large and small nuts, washers and bolts. One thing that I cannot figure out is how an exhaust system that is welded front-to-back (which is normal) can be removed in one piece with the engine in place. There seems to be no way that the downpipes can be withdrawn from their cramped quarters. With the engine out it is quite easy but with the engine in, I can not see how it can be done, without cutting the pipes.

The next steps are to transplant all of the 'externals' (FI pump, distributor, injectors & plumbing, starter, alternator, etc etc etc.) onto the rebuilt engine. A few months ago I completely rebuilt a distributor, now I need to move the electronic ignition bits from my old distributor onto that rebuilt one.

Then cleaning of the engine bay, fresh paint on various areas and bits and pieces. Next is the 'installation is the reverse of removal' procedure. Getting all the linkages, ignition timing etc etc back in spec, and then ... the strenuous moment of turning the ignition key. Joe Alexander gave me a couple of things to watch when the rebuilt engine first starts up, to make sure nothing goes wrong in the first minutes and hours of operation.

One important step in all of this is to go back through the site, the Technical Articles etc etc to make sure I am armed with all of the necessary knowledge. After all, I am an accountant and when I got my car a few years ago, even changing the oil was 'outside of scope'.

I will get back to the job on Saturday but, after that, it may be a while before I find time again.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Bob G]

Cees:
It sounds like you are getting the old girl back on the road. Two things I would like to comment on. I think The manifold pipes should be white I would send them out to Jet Hot coating as per Douglas Kims remendations. I had them do the headers on my ford Mustanf and they look great. Second while you have the engine apart you can spray cad the fuel injection lines and linkage with a coat of gold cad paint from eastwood www.eastwoodcompany.com and last I noticed my SL had the radiator out and an American drain pitch put in. You might want to inquiry if you have to pull the radiator to do this so future services on the cooling system are not at risk.
Glad to hear from you and that your SL will soon be back on the road.
Bob Geco

[George Des]

Cees--the first start up afetr a rebuild is critical--one thing you really want to make sure of before you start the engine is to ensure the oil galleys are filled so you get the oil pressure up right away. When I rebuilt my engine a couple of years ago before I started it up I did a number of things to accomplish this. First, I packed the oil pump with rebuild lubricant to ensure an instant prime. Second,  I used a pressurized oil tank to fill the oil galleys through the oil filter intake. I pumped in the oil until I could see it actually coming out through the cam bearings. Next, with the spark plugs out I rotated the engine through several turns by using a large wrench on the crank pulley. I may have gone a little overboard with some of this--the pressure fill may have done the trick by itself-- but needless to say with all this prep, when I started her up, I had instant oil pressure.

[Benz Dr.]

Cees,
last time I removed an engine it took me 5 hours and I did it all by myself. Only help I had was to remove the hood. ( no wonder my back is sore right now )
You should call me before you're ready to start your engine as there's some very specific tests I do before start up and some break in procedures I use.
Hopefully you won't add leaving the rad cap off like I did ~)

Regards,
Dan c
SL Barn

Daniel G Caron

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks for all of the great tips! I will take some photos on Saturday of the project and post them.
Bob - I am still debating on the manifolds - sending these (VERY) heavy things to JetHot in the US may be more trouble than it's worth, but I will look into it.
George - when Joe Alexander and I put the new engine together, we used assembly lube on all of the components. I will have to see how to prime the engine now that it's all together, before starting it. Would cranking it for a while without the ignition operable (so it won't start) work? This way there will be no stress on the engine parts because no combustion, while oil is in fact finding its way throughout, and I suppose replacing the assembly lube.
Dan - I will call you for sure.
Thanks,
Cees

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[n/a]

Cees,
  There is a trick builders of American V8 engines do when they perform the initial startup of a newly rebuilt engine....they pull the distributor and spin up the oil pump driveshaft with an electric drill and oil pump drive adaptor shaft to pressure-feed all the bearings through the oil galleries. This may be possible with an M130 engine, but I don't know what the oil pump drive adaptor would look like...one of the Forum members who does this all the time would know.

[George Davis]

Jim, I don't think the distributor removal trick will work on these engines, they are arranged differently.  I wish it would work, but that would be too easy.

Cees, yes, it's possible to just crank the engine to build up oil pressure, but it takes so long you'll go crazy.  I removed the spark plugs so it would crank faster and tried it after an oil change to get the oil cooler and filter filled before starting.  Took forever.  Not sure if it's good or bad for the engine, but I nearly had a nervous breakdown!  George Des's method has got to be the best.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

[George Des]

Jim--it is possible to do this and I actually did on mine. The major problem is that the distributor and tach drive are geared to the timing chain and it was a real pain to disconnect the chain in a way that I could spin the drive with an electric drill. I had my engine on a stand when I did this so it was easy to access the front of the engine but it still took some doing to disconnect the chain from the gear on the distributor drive without pulling the chain entirely out of the engine. As I recall, I had a fair amount of oil gush out of the opend distributor drive case as well. In my opinion, the other methods I mention in my earlier post are much easier and just as effective on this type engine.


George

[Cees Klumper]

Wow. I'll make sure the oil is everywhere before I start her up - one way or the other. I will call Joe and Dan before I make a move for sure. I will document everything in detail for posterity.

Gerard Wuisman (member here) emailed me off-line to let me know he will visit on Saturday. It's great to have all this support on-hand. More news to follow.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[ja17]

Hello Cees,
There are probably a hundred rituals performed by different engine builders before first start up. Everyone will swear by his particular method. First get the local witchdoctor out to the garage to make sure there are no hexes or curses on your engine or shop. (just kidding)
Here are some of my thoughts; engine assembly lube was used during assembly, this is designed to stay in place and not drain off metal parts during long terms of storage. At some point during first start-up it will be washed away by the initial oil stream.
 In the old days we would make our own assembly lube out of graphite powder and oil. The 190-SL and 300-SL factory shop manuals, instruct engine builders to use "graphite oil" for this purpose. These days commercial assembly lubes are even better with sythetic lubricants and graphite powder etc. The basic concept here is to keep the metal parts coated or protected during start up even after long storage. These assembly lubes are designed to do the job until the oil arrives.
First of all your car is not going to start immediately. It takes quite a bit of cranking at full pedal to get fuel up through those long injector lines. You may get a brief fire-up from the starting valve, so you may want to temporarily disconnect it's wire. Crack open the injector lines at each injector. Remove the coil wire and all the spark plugs and crank engine until the oil pressure registers on the guage. It will take some cranking. As you see fuel leak at each injector tighten each line. By this time you will have fuel and oil pressure. Install the spark plugs, coil wire and hook-up the cold start wire and you are ready to go. If your ignition and valve timing and are right you may be surprised by an immediate start-up. Static time the distributor for first start, then set to specs soon as possible.
Shorten the time it may take to get oil pressure by pre-filling the oil filter canister with as much oil as possible. You will not be developing much strain or heat on the metal parts until the engine is actually running.
In case you are still nervous about damage during first start-up, years ago, I made a simple tool to competely presurize the engine with oil before start up. You need only to remove the aluminum bronze sleeve and verticle timing gear to use it. Everything stays in time and the oil pump is easily rotated to pump new oil everywhere.
I doubt that it really provides much more protection than the above precautions.
I will try to post photos of it and it's use this week end.
Now on the point of "running in" or "breaking in", the new engine is another exhaustive subject! We have had some private discussions on this during and after your stay here. Good luck. I am sure Dan will have some good input here also.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[n/a]

Right, I thought you might say that...the arrangement in American V8s is different. I think George's procedure will work fine. If he used assembly lube he shouldn't have any problem.

[Cees Klumper]

Today I spent another 9 hours in the shop, transferring parts from the old engine onto the new one. I spent two hours alone on putting new water caps on the engine block! Most of that time I spent cleaning the old Allen head bolts on a wire wheel to like-new condition (well, without the yellow di-chromate). I also removed all of the old paint off the power steering fluid container, so I can paint it new with semi-gloss black paint. Here's a photo I took of the old engine block, before I started to remove the container and the many other hoses-and-things, so I know which hose goes where when I get ready to put it all back together:

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And here's the now-empty engine bay:


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Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[jcjblo]

Cees
If you haven't already done so, its a great time while the engine is out to check the front suspension rubber parts (subframe mounts, kingpins, etc.) and replace - its much much easier.
Joseph

quote:Originally posted by cees klumper

Today I spent another 9 hours in the shop, transferring parts from the old engine onto the new one. I spent two hours alone on putting new water caps on the engine block! Most of that time I spent cleaning the old Allen head bolts on a wire wheel to like-new condition (well, without the yellow di-chromate). I also removed all of the old paint off the power steering fluid container, so I can paint it new with semi-gloss black paint. Here's a photo I took of the old engine block, before I started to remove the container and the many other hoses-and-things, so I know which hose goes where when I get ready to put it all back together:

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And here's the now-empty engine bay:


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Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks Joseph. I did check my subframe mounts (they're in good shape) and I replaced the engine mounts last year. The kingpins are in good shape.

This evening I transferred the electronic ignition set-up from my old distributor to my rebuilt one (I got the parts from Dan Caron, Benz Barn in Canada) and here's a picture of the completed assembly:

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Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[ja17]

I made a simple engine pre-oiler to be used prior to first start on a rebuilt engine. I used a verticle timing gear from a Mercedes carbureted engine, a spare 1/2" drive socket and hand crank.
 
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You must unhook the tack cable and remove the fitting and the aluminum/bronze sleeve, (see previous posts).

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I welded the socket to the top of the verticle timing gear and ground off all the teeth on the gear itself. You may also have to grind a little off one side of the socket a little, so as to clear the bulge in the head.

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The tool is attached to the hand crank and inserted in the block where it quickly engages the oil pump. rotating the tool by hand, quickly fills the oil filter unit and the oil cooler. The entire engine is  primed with oil! oil pressure will register on your oil gauge.

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This is probably not neccessary if the correct engine assembly compound is used.

I have a plentiful supply of these old used timing gears if anyone needs to make one of these tools.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Cees Klumper]

I just painted my exhaust manifolds, after thoroughly cleaning them with wire brushes. I used 650-degree Celsius (1,200-degree Fahrenheit) spray paint. I used a dark grey color. Here's how they came out:

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I hope this paint lasts. The rusty look of the unfinished cast iron always looked out of place to me.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Last Friday I refitted the rebuilt engine in the engine bay. I ran into a couple of problems:

- first, the crankshaft pully that drives the power steering pump (the front one) turned out to be around 5 mm shorter on the new engine than it was on my old one. Then, when I went to swap them, I discovered that the longer original one was cracked, so I had to get another one that was the correct length.

- dropping in the engine, by myself, was not too difficult. The trick is to hang the engine from its engine mounts, then keeping the whole assembly balanced by attaching a strap to the rear of the transmission. After getting the engine above the engine bay, gradually lengthening the strap to the transmission will tilt the engine backwards enough to be able to lower and move the engine back, into the right position. In the final "dropping in" stage, I supported the transmission with a jack from underneath. Dropped in the engine mounting bolts, and voila.

- well .... so I thought. After I got the engine nicely in place, I realized that I had forgotten to refit the speedometer cable into its slot in the transmission housing. What a tight spot. I did manage to get it in without having to lift the engine back out, but that was not easy.

- then, when I got ready to pack up for the day, I had to move the car a few inches to be able to open the garage door. I shifted the transmission into neutral, only to find it did not shift through the gate pattern as normal. I am hoping this is because I have not yet fitted the transmission mounting and the heavy plate that it sits on yet, so the angle at which the gear lever is now attached to the transmission is different from the proper one. This evening I will do that, and hopefully the normal shift pattern will be restored.

I hooked up the intake and exhaust manifolds, the fuel lines, and some other externals. I figure I have two more days of tinkering before I can press the "start" button. In the meantime, I am getting my new stainless exhaust (after struggling with the old system for four years, never quite getting it to fit tight at the manifolds, a properly fitted exhaust system will be music to my ears).

Today I am also giving the radiator my final try, resoldering the drain plug assembly that I inadvertenty forced out of the radiator body, and then it's waiting for the next two days of free time to wrap the job up. I have not yet decided whether I will use synthetic oil from the start (as suggested by Nathan Keith), or whether I should start with conventional oil then change it to synthetic after the first 500 or so miles (in order to properly seat the rings as recommended by others). Any advice?

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Today I attempted to solder the drain plug fitting back into the radiator body. The first attempt failed - the solder would not adhere to either the fitting nor to the body. It turned out I was using the wrong soldering fluid: today went like a breeze. I soldered it in place, then checked for leaks and here's the result:
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and here after the obligatory coat of black paint:
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I hope after final installation it's leak-proof. One down, only few more to go.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Today I bought all the fluids that need to go back into the engine, cooling system and automatic transmission. For oil, I decided to start with two charges of semi-synthetic oil, followed by pure synthetic after the initial 550 miles of running-in. For the first two oil filters, I ordered the special running-in filters that Naj suggested. They should be coming in tomorrow. I installed and hooked up many of the wires, tubes, hoses, the distributor, alternator, fuel lines from the FI pump to the injectors, brake booster vacuum hose, power steering pump hoses, fuel linkages, throttle body, cold start valve, constant speed solenoid, battery tray, battery and cables. The only things left at this point are:
- install the new stainless exhaust system
- install and hook up the radiator and oil cooler
- put in the oil and fill the coolant system - as suggested by Dan Caron, I will start with plain water, so that, if there are any leaks, it's just water coming out instead of coolant. When I am sure the system is free of leaks, I will replace the water with coolant.

During all of the work, I am keeping my hands clean by wearing disposable latex (surgical) gloves. I get these in bulk at the local auto parts store. Worth the small investment for sure.

I expect that the next time I have free time to spend (next week Wednesday) I can start it up for the first time! I think I will videotape this moment for posterity ...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Today I received the Mercedes 'running-in' filters I ordered from Van Dijk.

Part number A 000 184 42 25.

On the filter it says: "only for initial run" and "nur fur Erstbetrieb"

I imagine these filters are 'finer' than the regular ones. I will be using the two filters for the first 550 miles.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Made some more progress today and last Sunday.
The radiator / oil cooler is back in, and all of the hoses are attached. I did about half of the new stainless steel exhaust system, starting at the front (manifolds). The system fits together quite snug and is a much better fit to the chassis than the old system.
Then yesterday my new Euro camshaft arrived in the mail from Niemoller in Germany. Less than $400. I will break in the engine first, then swap out the camshaft; I feel better breaking in the new engine with the less-aggressive cam. Plus I just want to get the car going again!! rather than taking part of the engine back apart!
I think in another couple of evenings in the garage, I will be able to report on the resuccitation process....

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[George Davis]

Cees,

I respectfully suggest you do the camshaft swap now, before going any further.  It'll never be easier than now, while the bonnet is off and the radiator can be re-removed if necessary.

Did you get new cam followers?  What is the prevailing wisdom on using used followers with a new cam?  With lifters, it's a big no-no to use used lifters with a new cam.

I'm glad it's going well, hope I'm not being too annoying!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks George - I will follow your advice and install the new camshaft. I did not get new followers, I'm curious about what others think about this?

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Douglas]

Cees, which camshaft did you go with & why Niemoller?

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #018260

[ja17]

Hello Cees,
Yes it is best to use new rocker arms with that new cam. The old rocker arms will work fine however the wear lines in your old rocker arms will soon transfere to your new cam!


Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks Joe, I will get new rocker arms ('followers'). They're about $20 a piece so that's $240 for the 12. I will save the old ones and the old cam - maybe someone can use a good set of used rockers + camshaft some day.

Doug: I got the European spec cam which provides for more HP than the standard US cam (the same type fitted to sedan engines that were/are oftentimes used to replace worn-out original Pagoda engines). According to most sources, the difference is about 10 HP (DIN): the European 280 SL (M130) engines, without emission controls and with the hotter cam, are listed at 170 HP (DIN, which I believe is around 190 HP SAE). The US engines at 155 HP (DIN, or around 170 SAE).

I went with Niemoller in Germany because their price (Euro 370) is a lot less than Van Dijk's (Euro 506) plus they have rebuild sets for my starter motor and alternator that Van Dijk don't list.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[George Des]

Cees--Just got back here in D.C. from Brussels. You've guys got the same terrible weather there that we have here so it was no relief being over there. Took a ride over to Aachen last Monday and the roads were slick as could be. I did see a green Pagoda in Brussels Wednesday night while sipping on a Jupiler at the Metropole Hotel in Brussels. While I did not do a detailed inspection on it, it looked like it had the earlier version spare tire well so it had to be a 230 even though it sported the newere style hub caps. Had the US version headlights, so this was obviously an update by a U.S. owner somewhere along the line.
Regarding your rocker arm replacements: while you aer at it it might be a good idea to replace the ball towers and perhaps the mating part on the head. When I did my rebuild, I was shocked at how worn the balls had become. My fear if you don't change these out with the new rockers is that you will have considerable play and attendant wear on the two parts in the early running of the engine. I think going new with the cam shaft and the rockers is a good idea but again you may want to go the extra mile on this and make sure that all the mating parts are new as well--I think this is "cheap" insurance in the long run.

George Des

[Tom]

Cees:

A couple of thoughts:

When you have the radiator out for repair, consider having it recored with an extra row.  I think these radiators are 3 row units and an extra row will help keep things cool in stop and go traffic.  Might want to check and see if you can have it recored in aluminum to save some weight.

Just curious, what signs suggest that your radiator had been replaced?

Best,

Tom


____________________________________

1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown
1994 E320 Cabriolet, Smoke Silver
1999 E320 Wagon 4 matic, Brilliant Silver
____________________________________

[Cees Klumper]

Hi Tom - I had the radiator out to remove the engine, and forced the drain plug out with its assembly, but soldered all of that back in place some weeks ago and just put the whole assembly back in this week. I have not yet tested (again) whether it is closed but feel pretty confident. My car did not overheat ever, the needle would only move up a bit in the hottest weather combined with stop-and-go, so I did not consider changing or adding to it.
The reason I think it was replaced at some point, is that it looks quite clean. But after looking closer, it seems like it was repaired (or recored?) and then painted, so it may in fact be the original one, I don't know for sure. I DO know that I was quite amazed at the cost of a new one!

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Benz Dr.]

Cees,
I'm  sure you'd be wasting a lot of time doing everything twice. I'd use the new cam wih all the other new parts.
If you put it together right you have little to worry about. The euro cam opens a few degrees sooner than the US cam and stays open longer before closing. This extra duration is where you can make a bit more mid range and top end power.
Get your manual out and look up how to do a valve clearance test. You need at least .9 mm (.035'')at 5 degrees ATDC or the valve could hit a piston in a worse case situation ( still unlikely though)
As long as you have it in time it will be OK.

During cam shaft replacement you will have to remove all the head bolts and there's a small chance you could have re sealing problems ( also small but then why bother with chance)

regards,
Dan c
SL Barn

Daniel G Caron

[Cees Klumper]

Today I did all of the final work to get my rebuilt engine (Joe Alexander and I rebuilt it in Ohio last May/June, then I had it shipped to The Netherlands last August and, since September, I have been working in my spare time to swap it out with my old engine - the car has sat in the garage since September 20 waiting patiently for me to perform the major surgery).
So ... today saw me:
- finishing up fitting the new stainless exhaust system
- putting in the air filter canister and assembly
- putting in all of the fluids (I used semi-synthetic oil and a special running-in filter. I plan to change the oil and filter after about 50 miles and then again after another 500 miles. Then I will revert to 100% synthetic oil)
- setting the initial timing (cylinder one cam lobes up, and then lining up the no. 1 spark plug timing mark on the distributor)
- turning the key ...
After a short while it sputtered and tried to run. For a minute or so it would try to catch but would not run. I then decided to bleed the fuel lines at the injectors, played some more with the ignition timing and ... PRESTO! It ran! Hesitatingly, but it ran.
I then heard a wooshing sound and saw ATF fluid splatter from the power steering canister. Time to bleed the steering housing. After that was done, I played some more with the timing, and the air screw on the intake manifold, checked for leaks of any kind (none) and took the car for a very short drive thru the parking lot. Within minutes, it ran better and better. Checked the fluids once more, topped off the automatic transmission fluid, and fitted the hood. The went for a 5-mile drive home, just in time for dinner. After dinner it started right up and I drove about 20 miles on the highway, taking it up to around 65 MPH. It ran great. Back to the garage, checked for leaks and the fluid levels one more time, nothing amiss. The only thing not yet functioning is the kick-down switch for the transmission, but I realized I forgot to hook up the microswitch, so that will most likely take care of that.
I must admit I was a bit apprehensive about getting the car to run right, and without leaks etc., after all that work and all that time. The engine feels very strong, is very responsive and so I have high hopes for the results after I can fine-tune everything with a CO meter, strobe light etc.
I am celebrating right now with a good glass of wine. My wife is relieved too!
Here's a photo of the car sitting proudly outside our house in Amsterdam, taken two hours ago:


Download Attachment: the white Mercedes.jpg
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Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[George Davis]

Congratulations, Cees, and nice work!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

[ja17]

Congratulations Cees!
I will toast for the occasion also!
Don't forget to re-torque the head after warm-up and again at around 500 miles. Release pressure in the cooling system before re-torqueing.

The power steering will bleed itself if you allow it to rest and then refil. Fill only to the line below the top of the resevour. Turn the steering from lock to lock allow  foam settle and re-fill to mark.
Short drives allowing  warm-up and cool down are best at first.

Sounds like you will be ready for spring!

Joe

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks George + Joe.
I will retorque the head and check/adjust the valve clearances at the next occasion. Also set the ignition timing properly (I rebuilt the distributor also and need to make sure it operates properly across the entire range), check the linkage adjustments, mixture at idle etc etc.
I was relieved to see that the radiator, which I had forced the brass drain plug assembly out of, which I then soldered back into place, is not leaking. As a precaution, at the suggestion of Dr. Benz, I filled the system with plain water. Now I know the system is fine I will replace it with the proper coolant.

On the power steering unit I followed the instructions in the Haynes manual. The bleeding went very easy, all I needed was a piece of tubing (I used a piece gasoline hose with the same diameter as used for the gas vent tank in the trunk) and a -very rarely used- 11 mm wrench/spanner. Turned on the engine, opened the bleed screw two turns with the hose routed back into the oil canister (behind the distributor) and, at first a lot of foamy oil and air, I had to put in quite some more oil, and after maybe 20 seconds just a steady flow of oil. Haynes says to then put the car up on stands at the front, and turn the wheels lock to lock once or twice while repeating the bleed procedure. I won't go through that routine (tired of raising and lowering my car in the cramped one-car garage all this work takes place in) since Joe pointed out that it will naturally settle itself.
One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post: while the engine was cranking the very first time I tried to start it, I watched for the oil pressure to come up. I was relieved to see that it built up after some time, all the way to the max spot, even when the engine was not running, but only cranking. I watched the gauges carefully the whole time during my several test drives.
When I returned after the last test drive, several older people walked by and immediately started complimenting the car, how gorgeous it looked, beautiful lines, still so good being this old, etc etc (if I had a quarter for each time this happens!) - and the car was covered in dust from 6 months of storage, smudgy finger prints on it from yours truly etc!
Yes I am definitely ready for spring - I had almost forgotten what it's like to actually drive a Pagoda. This summer Jan Schuil, a full member of the Group who has gone through a full restoration and is almost ready with his car (see picture forum), has offered to organize a driving event in the Northern Province of the Netherlands (Friesland), I will try to organize one more driving event, and we will again have the tech session at Van Dijk. I can't wait.
A big thanks to Joe Alexander and also to all the others who provided input on this thread. I literally could not have done this without you!

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Ben]

Well done Cees !

I was in this position almost exactly this time last year and my first drive home felt great, sun shining, top down, new motor....there's nothing like it !

PS I had a few glasses of wine to toast you last night......although I didn't realise last night that I was toasting you !!!  

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[hands_aus]

Hey Cees,
I have been following your progress with great interest.
Just driving my car lifts my spirits, I think your spirits must be soaring right now.
Congratulations from "down under"


Bob (Brisbane,Australia)
early 250 SL, RHD

[gwuisman]

Cees,
Congrtulations with the successfull operation!
Gerard Wuisman.

[Benz Dr.]

Dn't drive the car too fast or very hard. What you want to do is speed up and then slow down several imes. By changing engine RPM you break in the cylinder walls correctly.
What happens is the rings will bite into the fresh cast iron under load and when you back off the throttle then the rings will smooth out the area. Doing this repeatedly will knock off all the high spots until you have a perfect seal.
Different engines speeds is the trick.



Daniel G Caron

[Naj ✝︎]

Well done Cees

Now remember what the good Dr. ordered!
naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[Gerhard]

Hi Cees,

Congrats from Amersfoort too. If you are ever in the area pop in for a coffee. Just curious about the sound of the revised engine of course. I just don't get around to working on my car lately.

BTW. looks great, a SL parked on the gracht :?: .

Gerhard Radstake
1965 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

Cees,
If you have the time, it may be worth doing a compression test now and again when the engine is fully bedded in (or broken in)to see the difference?
I'm sure it will be of interest to all here.
naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[n/a]

Cees

I'll raise a glass in your honor!  Your accomplishment has me grinning ear to ear.

Cheers!

Tony M
1965 230SL (Auto)

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks everyone for your encouraging words.

I spent the better part of today in the garage again. Things I did:
- tightened a couple of the bolts/nuts that secure the exhaust downpipes to the manifolds. Three were a bit loose.
- replaced the (plain) water in the cooling system with coolant.
- re-torqued the head bolts. They clearly needed it.
- changed the oil and the oil filter (after only some 60 miles) - there were some tiny metal particles in there.
- solved a small oil leak I noticed today (loose nut on a oil cooler tube).
- checked the transmission fluid level.
- re-adjusted the ignition timing (again).
- washed the car (!)
- checked the CO-level with a Gunson Professional gas tester: the CO level was way too high - about 9% when it's supposed to be between 3.5% and 4.5%. I adjusted the knob at the back of the FI pump 4 clicks and this corrected the situation. Adjusted the air screw on the intake manifold to get the idle RPM at 800.
- went for several test drives.
- did not get around to checking the compression but I will do so next time.

The engine runs very strong and smooth. It responds much more quickly to the throttle than the old engine used to. It is also much quieter - the old engine would make a lot of mechanical noise - the new one is very quiet.

I will drive for another 600 miles before I will re-torque the head bolts once more, check the valve clearances and replace the oil (with full synthetic - I now use semi-synthetic) and filter.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[113gray]

Cees, I think all of us are as excited as you are! A wonderful adventure. Tell us what wine you chose to celebrate. Please accept my congratulations along with those already received.    -JP-

[Ben]

Cees I found that my car used oil for about 3 or 4 thousand miles before it reduced to a level that is insignificant. You may need to reconsider and use mineral oil until it has bed in fully before switching to synthetic as it wont bed in whilst running on synth !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[Cees Klumper]

Hi Ben - I did consider whether I should start off with mineral oil first. Then I read up on the subject and finally decided to go with the semi-synthetic blend for the first 1.000 km's, then switch to fully synthetic. Someone (Nathan Keith) was very adamant about being able to use synthetic from the start, that it would not prevent the engine from being properly run-in. I chose the compromise. Did you start out with synthetic and is that why you believe it consumed more oil in the beginning? I will monitor the oil consumption carefully and play it by ear.
For JP (113Gray): the grape-based lubrication that I can recommend you consume in between engine work, is called "Lavila"; it is manufactured by a small outfit in Cebazan, France. The label provides the following product specifications: "LAVILA is a soft, smooth, fruity, easy-to-drink wine, produced in the South of France, where the climate and personalities reflect the warmth and conviviality (?) of the Mediterranean Region"

WARNING: The Surgeon General has determined that buying a Pagoda can be hazardous to your wallet

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Ben]

Hi Cees, well I am by no means an expert on engine oil, but I have rebuilt dozens of engines and I've always used mineral oil to run them in.

As it happens when I was doing mine last year there was a series of articles in various UK classic mags about oils. I basically read them and decided to assemble with synthetic and use semi for start up then I dumped this after 50 miles and used quality mineral oil.

At the moment I have almost 13,000 miles on this engine since the rebuild and it might use 500ml in 1000 miles if driven hard. I tend to do a bunch of motorway miles, say 600 one week then 300 the next then nothing but short runs for the rest of the month ! Most of the time it requires no top up except after the long quick runs.

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[113gray]

Cees, Your grape based lubricant "Lavila" is essentially unknown this side of the pond. We envy you for access to such exotics but will try to make do as best we can with Napa cabs & Santa Maria Valley Pinot Noirs. Keep us posted on grapes & 113's.      -JP-

[Cees Klumper]

Hey Ben - I had a look at the Deves (piston rings manufacturer - according to Dr Benz, if you're looking to re-ring your pistons rather than replacing them, they're the best brand to get) website last night and they, too, recommend using mineral oil to run in a new engine. They echo the notion that using synthetic will prevent the rings from properly seating.
So doubt and anxiety started setting in, and pretty soon I was swapping the oil once again, for mineral oil (Valvoline). I will run that for the next 500 or so miles, then replace it with the semi-synthetic (also Valvoline) I just took out after 20 miles of use. After that, I will move on over to 100% synthetic.

I took the car for another 20-mile drive tonite on the highway and it just purs along. Very peppy and responsive, quite a difference from what I was used to over the past 4 years. I am curious as to the fuel mileage and oil consumption. Mileage was not too bad but also not good, and it was using a liter of oil every 900 or so km's. More news to follow ...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[knirk]

Cees,

I have driven about 700 miles now after the rebuild. Trying to vary the rpm and load and using 4000 rpm as the highest, and not much load.

Do you have a "normally used" break-in schedule telling when you can start increasing rpm/load, and when you may go all the way to 6500 rpm?

Per G. Birkeland
69 280 sl aut 834
Norway

[Ben]

I reckon maybe a thousand at under 3000RPM then another at under 4500 you should be okay !

It was easier for me as I did much more driving shortly after the rebuild. I had 1500 in the first month and same the next !

I feel the engine is getting better all the time and the rev counter really flies up once it hits 4000 !  You have to be careful when it come on cam 'cos it just flies !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor