Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Tom Zelinsky on December 07, 2008, 00:57:52
-
Hello all, Is anyone aware of a after market , fiberglass ,hardtop?
-
Hello Tom
I have not seen or heard of hardtop other than the standard one. I wonder what the weight savings would be?
-
Tom,
I'm not aware of an aftemarket hardtop, but I sure wouldn't want one given all the safety features built into the original.
-
Doug,
Your response intrigues me. I know nothing about the design of the hardtop (less the fact that it's a pain to replace the liner and wood). What are the safety features of which you speak? I'd be interested in learning about them.
James
-
I know for a fact that the hardtop was specifically designed to do two things:
1. Withstand a rollover because of its unique concave shape. (Basically, it's an external roll bar.)
2. Give you a hernia putting it on or taking it off.
-
Having just stripped one down for restoration, there are no safety bars in the roof other than lightweight cross members with some soft bonding material between them and the metal roof similar to those on the trunk to, I believe stop the deformation of the large flat metal areas.
I wouldnt want to put my faith in it in a roll over.
-
Garry,
would you prefer rolling over with the soft top up? ;D
Even without any obvious built-in "safety bars" the top is remarkably strong as extensive crash test by M-B have shown and as the patent describes.
James,
you might be interested reading a book by Harry Niemann entitled "Bela Barenyi - The Father of Passive Safety", it describes the design of the Pagoda roof. Here is a teaser for you:
Rudolf Uhlenhaut and the experimental department worked on several interesting vehicles which they then passed on to the pre-development department for Barenyi to carry out comprehensive test runs, particularly with the W 111. Naturally the car was restyled and newly developed inventions installed for testing. The first pagoda roof in this context was not the 230 SL, W 113 series, but a car with rear fins, but this version never went into production.
All the same, the roof construction already patented DPB 1.069.008 in 1956 under the rather plain title "Vehicle with Removable Hard Top Roof", enabled a roof loading in excess of 1000 kg.
He developed this pagoda roof construction in a great variety of designs. The 230 SL (series W 113) was produced with a hard top pagoda roof, to succeed the 190 SL in 1963. The shape of this design is still impressive in this day and age for its all-round visibility and the generous head room. The pagoda roof could be taken off, transforming the car into a roadster for the summer months. The excellent performance accelerated the car from 0 to 100 kmh in just 11 seconds, and a possible top speed of 200 kmh with the manual gearbox version. The car aerodynamics were worse however with the hard pagoda roof, so that the top speed was about 5 kmh higher with the fabric roof.
And here are some of his famous sketches for the roof including instructions on how to dimple it:
-
Thanks Alfred! Fascinating information and images.
-
My point was that I have more faith in the safety of Barenyi's work than in some aftermarket hardtop.
Here's the man himself years later posing proudly next to the icon he helped create:
http://www.supercars.net/Pics?vpf2=y&gID=1&fID=0&tID=155057&mID=1209862&l=r
-
would you prefer rolling over with the soft top up? ;D
No thanks. Have you seen how much a replacement is?! ;D
-
......don't know about you guys, but my Pagoda seems to feel much more solid with the Hard Top on.....something I never experienced with Fibre Glass Hard Tops I had with my Triumph TR 4A and / or my E - Type....in a previous life.
Finally made the change over to this site, (love the wallpaper....)
Anyone know the whereabouts of the Benz Dr. ? No answer to my e - mails ?! Hope he is alright...
CHEERS !
WITT !
-
I agree Alfred and Douglas, I would rather the hard top on in a roll over and I am sure it also helps with some control of scuttle shake which is probably why it feels tighter with it on.
Next time I think it will snow I will put it on. I have not had it on this century yet!!! :D
-
Alfred,
Thanks for the quote and the pictures; amazing.
I prefer driving the car without either roof up, obviously. For long drives (touring between countries) we'll always take the hard top and remove it on arrival. I have a large waterproof tarp I wrap it in when I get to my destination. Although we tend to crawl along at about 65mph I find the wind noise is so much less with the hardtop up. The only real frustration is that I still haven't managed to sort out the gaps at the windows properly. I've given up for now.
James
-
The nicest thing about that link is that beautiful 280sl WITHOUT the US side lights and the shinny silver euro headlights.
Wow, it makes the car look the way it should.
On the topic of tops....if I had to get one, I would bite the bullet and buy original when it comes up on evilbay.
abe
My point was that I have more faith in the safety of Barenyi's work than in some aftermarket hardtop.
Here's the man himself years later posing proudly next to the icon he helped create:
http://www.supercars.net/Pics?vpf2=y&gID=1&fID=0&tID=155057&mID=1209862&l=r