Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: mdsalemi on April 10, 2008, 06:28:42
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In two-tone pagodas--ones where the hard top is a different color than the body, were there specific sets of color combos? What were they? Did the wheel cover color always match the hard top color?
(I'm only talking factory stuff and only with the hard top/body color.)
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
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To my knowledge, the hubcap color and hard top color always matched from the factory. In the picture below, my mother's '71 280 SL taken in the 70s, the car had a black hard and soft top. My 250 SL has a red hardtop, black soft top, and the hub caps are red.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2405/2394687964_d153078039.jpg)
John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual
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quote:
Originally posted by thelews
To my knowledge, the hubcap color and hard top color always matched from the factory. In the picture below, my mother's '71 280 SL taken in the 70s, the car had a black hard and soft top. My 250 SL has a red hardtop, black soft top, and the hub caps are red.
John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual
...but were there specific combinations that were available or was it anyone's choice? I've seen red body/black hard top, but not too many others in the 2-tone.
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
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Well, mine is a fairly obvious two-tone. White (717) with dark-blue top and hubs (332), that coincide with the dark-blue tex and dark-blue soft-top. Not sure this answers any of your questions Mike but it is one example.
Some pics here:
http://index.php?topic=8075
James
63 230SL
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I've seen at least a half-dozen Havanna Brown 230SLs with Light Beige hardtop and wheel covers, so that must have been a fairly common combination in the mid 1960s. Almost all of the others have had a camel colored interior, except one for sale by a vendor in the U.K recently that had the same Cream interior as mine.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) 1 Pagoda.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/Mike%20Hughes/2008411115550_1%20Pagoda.jpg)
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- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
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Wow! That havana brown with beige is gorgeous. Was the DC photo taken this year, since were in the same season?
Dimitri
'71 280SL
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Hughes
I've seen at least a half-dozen Havanna Brown 230SLs with Light Beige hardtop and wheel covers, so that must have been a fairly common combination in the mid 1960s. Almost all of the others have had a camel colored interior, except one for sale by a vendor in the U.K recently that had the same Cream interior as mine.
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- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
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The D.C. shot was taken two years ago early in the morning. Last year I took a different car there but couldn't get a clear spot that would have the car in the sun. My wife and I took both cars in to town to see if I could improve on the earlier efforts this year but the Park Service closed that parking lot to vehicular traffic altogether to set up a "Welcome Center" for the Cherry Blossom Festival, so no dice.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Cherry Blossoms 2007 001.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/Mike%20Hughes/200841210918_Cherry%20Blossoms%202007%20001.jpg)
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- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
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I wonder how many two tone pagodas were repainted to monochrome. I have a friend who bought a two tone 111 coupe and repainted the top and wheels to make it monochrome. I think that in that particular car monochrome looked better but I like that sixties feel of two tone on the pagoda.
Dimitri
'71 280SL
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quote:
Originally posted by dseretakis
I wonder how many two tone pagodas were repainted to monochrome.
mine was same as James Huber's, 717 white body with 332 blue top, but a PO had it repainted in the early 80s to a silver blue.
john
64 230sl euro 4 spd
89 190e 2.6
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I thought the wheel rim colour was the same as the body and the hub cap colour was the same as the hard top.
It looks great on the red body black hard top combination.
These combinations are more obvious on the 230 and early 250sl because of the separate trim rings and hub caps.
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
BEST OF THE BEST!
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Michael wrote: "...but were there specific combinations that were available or was it anyone's choice? I've seen red body/black hard top, but not too many others in the 2-tone."
Michael, it was anyone's choice. Also for the interior, although there at least certain combinations were "recommended".
My car is 906 body and 904 hardtop.
Klaus
1969 280 SL
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Two tone color combinations was on the order sheet from the factory. If you look at our group picture you will see my car. the hardtop color was matched to the hub-caps, my body color is white grey with a black hard-top and hub-caps . Thiswas also carried over to the soft top being the same color as the hard-top. I have to look for the order number ,but that is the way the factory did things unless other wise told by the buyer.
I have seen some out ragious color combinations and the way to prove it is orginal is to check the data plate inside the left inner fender on USA bound SLs. this was also carried through to sedans like the W109/108 black top with silver will equal black hub-caps if not optioned with the alloy wheels. It also continued into the first year or two for the R-107 350SL which for some strange reason got hub-caps on early USA models.
Bob Geco
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Recommended Colour Combinations (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=DataCard.RecommendedCombinations) are listed in the Technical Manual.
Peter
1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php).
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I think the dealer played an important roll in this two tone paint option. The more attractive they could make the cars the more they could sell. Signal red was a hot color even for the brochures. Equipped with leather upholstery ,Becker stereo, electric antenna and tinted glass, not excluding white wall tires. these cars sold very quickly. I remember two dealers WI Simionson and Hollywood Mercedes-Benz who always had fully optioned cars ready to sell. Seems strange that the salesmen were never told what some of the rarer options were and the chrome bars on the hardtop only served to them as a dectortive touch. more bling more money.
Bob Geco
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Michael,
The book Vom Barok zur Pagode shows several pages of MB factory offered color combinations sheets and for each color combination, the interior color & material options, so color combo's were not just "anybody's choice". The number of colors and of the combination options increased with each succeeding model as time progressed.... fewer on the earlier 230SL's, more on the later ones, more yet on the 250SL and still more on the 280SL and even more toward the end of the 280SL period. There are too many to list, but if you're interested in a couple of body colors (& which hard-top colors they could be ordered with) or the reverse, I'll try to list them for you ... for the year you're interested in. The book doesn't show every year, but some selected years for each version.
Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
The 6% Club - Best of the Best
'02 SL500 Sport
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quote:
Originally posted by Longtooth
The book Vom Barok zur Pagode shows several pages of MB factory offered color combinations sheets and for each color combination, the interior color & material options, so color combo's were not just "anybody's choice".
And we have them here: Recommended Colour Combinations (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=DataCard.RecommendedCombinations) are listed in the Technical Manual.
Peter
1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php).
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I have the 050 White body (or should I say that was what came from the factory and that is what will go back on it soon) and the 050 top which is a dark Grey. With the red interior it is (in my humbke opinion) a very atractive color combination. My hubcaps do match the top
Daryl
'64 230 SL Buckeye Benz Scarlet interior and Grey top Serial # 508
'77 280SE
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Michael,
Both, Peter and Klaus are right.
There "were" recommendations for paint codes (body/HT/ST/interior) and these changed a little over the years.
Furthermore, you were able to get other color combos (e.g. red car with blue soft top - odd). Definitely it was not a must to have the ST and HT color matching (e.g. black & black) or how would you deal with a red hard top ...?
In later years (e.g. 1970 on) it became harder and harder to get anything but what was recommended in the lists
(I know this definitely from the German SL Club's former president's car).
Bob, the ST color is not on the metal sign in the engine compartment, only body & HT color.
Only the data card will tell you the whole truth of your car.
Best,
Achim
(old parts & knowledge collector)
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So far I have noticed the following.
red/black
blue/silver
906 blue/drk blue
white/black
dark red/cream
burgundy/cream
tunis/black
beige-gray/black
1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.
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Peter, in Engelen's Vom Barok zur Pagode (German published version) I see nothing in the lists that refers to the color combinations being recommended. What I see is that for a list of available colors in a given year (list of the available standard colors, or separate list of available metallic colors), all (or any) two-color combinations can be selected from each separate list(i.e. combinations of colors taken from only one list). Since any combination of top/body color could be selected, I stand corrected. My misunderstanding was that certain combinations were "recommended", and since I could find no "recommended" color combinations statements in the lists I misundertood the statement that certain color combinations were "recommended" (or "empfohlen" in German, or any other term with the same intent).
The lists I'm referring to are entitled Sonderausstattungen, Personnenvagen; Daimler-Benz Aktienegesellschaft, Stuttgart - Unterturkheim.
The number of combinations is huge. For example, there were 11 metallic colors listed in Jan '66. The number of combinations using those colors for top/bottom or bottom/top is 132. For the standard colors there were 23 available... that gives 552 available color combinations.
Where specific color combinations are listed, they are listed under a specific Leather color, of which there were 27 different leather colors available. For each leather color there was 1 rubber matts color and 1 carpet/interior color, and then a list of combinations of body/top colors. I presume the combinations for body/top colors listed under each leather color are those being referred to as the "recommended" colors...but please correct me if my understanding is correct.
The translation of the notation that allows any color combination to be selected from a given list of available standard or metallic colors is:
All two-color combinations are available from the above colors.
or in German "Aus obigen Farbtoenen sind saemtliche zweifarbige Kominationen erhaeltich".
So Michael, the MB factory authorized any 2-color combination from a given list of available colors in a given year of available colors. The only apparent restriction was the combinations couldn't be selected from different lists ... i.e. metallic colors could be combined for any 2-color metallic combination, or standard colors could be combined to any 2-color standard color combination.
Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
The 6% Club - Best of the Best
'02 SL500 Sport
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These colour combinations were recommended only in so far as they derive from the US Sales brochure list. I just copied the Technical Manual title from the original table that used to be here on the site. I'm not sure if it was meant as a value judgement.
Peter
1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php).