Soft Top Frame Spring

[KUMARB]

On my 280SL, I see a spring on the left side in the soft top storage compartment. The spring is a coil spring, approximately 1 inch diameter, and 6 inches long. This spring seems to keep the frame weight balanced to be lifted easily. However, I do not see a similar spring on the right side. Do I have a missing spring on the right side, or the car came with one spring originally?  Where would I find a replacement spring and mounting hardware?

Thanks for your help.

[jameshoward]

Kumarb,

Rapid posting there. I think you'll find the answers to the first and third posts using the search engine, which is now very good. In short, the soft top has a ton of adjustment, so the answer to you first question is 'yes.' But the answers are in lots of posts so your best bet is to compile the info from searches. There isn't a definitive post that has it all, although some are very good. It's a somehwat complex process, and hugely time consuming but trial and error rule.

The answer to your third post, if I understand you correctly, is 'yes, no, and try some of the US suppliers,'or I can recommend www.sls-hh.de although they're in Germany.

Again, there's quite a but of info on those springs on the site already. It'd be quicker to look there than wait for new responses. I replaced my soft top this time last year using the info on teh site, and a cd from German ebay which has a ton of great photos. Search under 'w113 verdeck' or here's a link to a current cd for sale at about 11 euros. http://cgi.ebay.de/Mercedes-DB-W113-Pagode-Cabrio-Verdeck-Einbau-Anleitung_W0QQitemZ140290427739QQihZ004QQcategoryZ14769QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The text is in German, but the photos are pretty self explanatory. I found the photos to be invaluable.

JH

[hauser]

There's a good chance that the mounting point is broken and might be the reason the spring is missing.  Look at the side which has the spring and compare with other side.  If there is a mounting point you can get the spring from Gernold.

[KUMARB]

Thanks for your help.

I did check the forum postings and also the MB parts list.  It appears that I have missing springs on the right side. I looked at my soft top frame connections again. I have two springs on the left side, one small and other big coil spring. The small spring is connected to two levers, a small lever and a big lever.  The big coil spring is connected to the small lever and a stud. On the right side, I have missing small lever which explains missing springs. Looks like the small lever on the right side broke off at the base. I can see the jagged edges where the lever broke off. Right now, I can not tell which part this small lever was attached to, or what I have to do to get it fixed. MB Parts book does not show any assembly details.

Any help will be appreciated.

 

[psmith]

Interesting.  My right spring mount is broken too.  I wonder if it is a design issue.  I have a hard time getting the left side of the soft top down enough to close the lid and I think it may be because I am missing the spring on one side.  Here's a picture.

[hauser]

I had Gernold rebuild my frame.  Now it's just as it was when it left the factory.

[jameshoward]

Pete,

You are missing the spring but I think that the spring is unlikely to provide a significant difference to how the top is opened or stored. As I understand it the springs help control the movement up and down. They are under quite a bit of tension at times, but whether mine are on or off makes no difference to the fact that my top is a bugger to close into the box. Perhaps if you decided on a complete refurb of the top that might be the time to address the broken parts, but as a job on its own that seeks to make the top 'work better' I wouldn't bother.

Hauser, are you able to give an idea of the difference in how your top operates after a rebuild? I'd like to know whether it was OK before, or if you had to struggle with it and whether it's completely changed?

JH

[zoegrlh]

I had a seminar problem.  Got new coil spring from MB, and had to fabricate small lever broken piece that coil spring attaches to out of ss and had it welded to the broken lever.  My friendly welding shop did this for me.  The part is a complete dupe of the original part and works well.  You could possibly do this.
Bob

[psmith]

Hi James,

You might be right, I guess I could take the left spring and see if it makes a difference.

Bob,  it's good to know it can be fixed.  The upholstery shop that tried to adjust it said the frame would have to be replaced, but I'd rather repair it and save the money for something else.

[KUMARB]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I feel a little better knowing I am not the only one with missing right side springs. I plan to take out the frame in pieces, have a spring mount welded to the right side of the frame and install missing springs.

I think these springs are important, just like those in spring loaded garage doors. Garage springs balance the garage door weight making opening and closing of the garage door easier. If we did not have any coil springs on the soft top frame, opening and closing of the soft top probably would be unwieldy.

My soft top frame tends to lean slightly to the right when fully extended, and leans to the  left when folded back into the storage compartment. This may be due to missing right side spring.

I will let you know of my progress.

Sincerely,

glad someone did some research on the soft top . as I mentioned in my last post the right side arm snapped under tension. I was not aware of the small tension spring until this post. If anyone has some spares please contact me. I would like to buy them for my soft top repair.

Bob Geco

[hauser]

As simple as it may sound you can't just mig weld a new piece back on.  There is only one way to properly repair these frames and that is to put it on a jig.  Any other way is just hit or miss and most likely it will be a miss.  Everything has to line up for the frame to function as it was designed to do.  Gernold has this jig in his shop which he fabricated using a NEW never used factory frame.  This is the only way he does it and it always turns out perfect.

Here is the jig that is in use at SL Tech.

[Witt]

Might as well put my five cents worth in here:
I posted a lengthy post at the old Pagoda 113 site, was hoping that all that good stuff would be transfered to this awesome site.....maybe some day?

Come spring I will post a  detailed report how I fold and protect my soft top, in the meantime: I have removed the two springs in question together with the two "upside down L-shaped chrome brackets years ago, with no negative results.  That s/t storage box is crammed enough as is and the extra room is wellcome.
No, I don't find it more difficult to lower and / or raise the top.
On another front, I did have problems with the hook at the bottom of the rear bow to engage into its receptacle until I found out that the chrome trim surrounding that hole prevented me from pushing down far enough to make it "click". ( Are you still with me ? ) I just remove it when raising the top and install it ( quick - relies....) just for the sake of looks when the top is down. So there......
All is well now, the s/t is removed and parked indoors as every winter and the hard top looks great on the car.

CHEERS !
WITT !

[Richard Madison]

Here's what the small round spring and the long spring look like when the parts are all there.

The piece that extends a little more than an inch (2 cm) that has the hole for the large spring is broken off on some cars.  The green line in the photo points to the broken piece.

if the small and large spring are missing on one side, the soft top must be lifted out of the storage compartment by reaching all the way under the folded top pulling up the bottom of the frame. If the top is pulled the normal way (pulling up the top frame member), the bottom frame rib will not clear the compartment.

Except for this "deep pull", the top works OK.

Can be repaired with a jig. Quote was $3,000 for repair and a new top.

The owner decided he can do the "deep pull" and spend the $$$ on other things.
It has not been repaired.


Richard M

[Garry]

Like some others I also have a broken arm on one side that the spring attaches to. As Richard says in his posting, to extract the top in that condition requires reaching under the whole roof to extract it otherwise the lower frame will jam in the compartment. 
To make this process easier, use a piece of seat belt webbing appx 3 feet long (I actually use an old seat belt with the buckles still attached!) to lay across the soft top bay when lowering the roof and tuck the ends into the folds whilst down.  Wen I want to raise the roof, I then can grab the two ends of the webbing and evenly pull up the whole roof and thus avoid having the lower frame jammed in the compartment. Found it easier than having to do the 'deep pull'

One day I will take the soft top off and try to do a weld fix.  A good winter job maybe.  How easy is it to remove the soft top in one piece?

Garry

[mbzse]

Here's what the small round spring and the long spring look like when the parts are all there.../.. if the small and large spring are missing .../...

I can mention, I helped a friend to fix his soft top frame. We manufactured the small, round spring, since it was missing, and made a few extra ones.
So if you need one, I have them. There are both left and right hand versions

/Hans in Sweden

[Witt]

As I mentioned in a previous post I remove my s/t every winter and store it in a "lightly" folded position inside my house and install the hard top.

Before you do anything, mark the position of the two rectangular plates that hold the top frame to the bottom of the S/T storage box. There are two bolts on either side with a 13 mm head. Also make a note of how many shims are under each plate and on what bolt. This will make it a snap to reinstall later.
 
By the way, THAT is also the way how to adjust the s/t to fit the side windows: adding or subtracting shims and / or sliding the folding mechanism fore or aft before tightening said four bolts. Now you know....

It would be best to have a helper when lifting the S/T from the car, if you are strong and CAREFULL not to scratch anything you can do it by yourself !
Have fun, it's easier than it looks....

CHEERS !
WITT !

[Bob G]

Hans:
Please email me off line krwaxbz@yahoo .com  I could sure use those extra right and left tension springs for my soft top repair. I will gladely pay for your time.

Many Thanks
Bob geco

[Peter van Es]

I posted a lengthy post at the old Pagoda 113 site, was hoping that all that good stuff would be transfered to this awesome site.....maybe some day?

Witt, it's actually quite difficult for me to retrieve stuff from the Pagoda 113 site, as all user credentials have been removed to protect the posters. So I cannot for instance just look for your posts...

I've started adding stuff from Pagoda 113 to our Technical Manual, but it is a long and laborious process. If you still have the post, you could add it to the manual yourself!

Peter

[Peter van Es]

Most of it is now here: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Tops.SoftTop

Now I need to cull stuff from here to finish the chapter 

Peter

[KUMARB]

This morning, I completed my project on the soft top. I replaced the right missing springs, and everything seems to work well.

This is how I did it.

I removed the soft top canvas since I needed a new one anyway. Removed the springs from the left side, and then, removed the whole soft top frame from the car. I bought an angle iron from Home Depot, 3/4"x3/4".  Cut a 2.5" long piece from this angle iron, ground it and drilled holes in it to match it to the mounting lever on the left side. Removed the pin from right side bottom hinge joint of the soft top frame. Took the frame to a local body shop and had the homemade mounting lever welded to the frame. Put the hinged joint back together, painted the new lever with a rust inhibitor, mounted the frame on to the car, adjusted the frame with shims, installed two new coiled springs which I bought from the local MB dealer.  I fabricated the missing right side small spring from a coat hanger wire and installed it on the right side of the frame.  This small spring was neither listed in MB parts list, nor available at the MB dealer. Installed a brand new soft top canvas. So far, things seem to be working fine.  I hope it continues that way in the future.

My most frustrating part of the project was removing and replacing the coiled spring. Since it is in tension, and I did not have the right tools.

By the way, the entire frame without the canvas weighs approximately 40 pounds. In the absence of coiled springs, I found it rather difficult to hold the weight of the frame with one hand and try to tuck the canvas ends into the storage compartment with the other.

The coiled spring is made out of a steel wire of 0.14" diameter and elongates 1" for every 32 lbs(roughly). A spring like this sells for about $5.00 each in a hardware store. However, the spring ends will have to be reshaped to make them fit in the car. I bought springs from the MB dealer for $25.00 each.

I saw a repair estimate for fixing the frame for $3000.00 in this thread. I spent approximately $60.00 in out of pocket expenses plus a lot of my time and aggravation.

Again, thanks to you all for your helpful hints and discussions for which I am very grateful.

P.S.: I have a leftover coiled spring.  If any forum member needs it, please let me know.

[psmith]

Thanks!  That gives me hope for my frame.  Post some pictures if you can.

[zoegrlh]

My SL also had the same piece broken, and I did not have the broke off piece, what I did so I could put a new coil spring on the right side of the boot, was to have the lost broken piece made of stainless steel at my friendly weilding/machine shop.  All I did was draw the piece that was needed for him to make it.  The weld was excellent, and the stainless steel matched the chromed piece.  Cost to me was $25.00.  Yes you will have to take that piece apart from the whole frame.  If you want to have my welder to fix/well it let me know.  You will never know it is a fitted piece.
Bob

[KUMARB]

MBZSE,

The small round spring which you made looks much better that the one I made out of a coat hanger wire. I would like to have one of the right hand version of the spring if it is not too much of a trouble for you.

Thanks,