Restoration - Update

[ja17]

Hello Bob,

Good progress, you look like a pro! Expect two to three more time putting thing back.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[bpossel]

Thanks Joe!

If it were'nt for you and many others I would not have the nerve to do what I am doing...  You have been great help over the past 4 years! Each mini project has helped me to build up to this major one.

I know that the reassembly will take a long time.  I want to take it slow and ensure it is done right!  Each piece & part cleaned and/or replaced before installation.
While car shell is at the painters, I will have the head redone, the heater core rebuilt, and engine pieces cad plated or powder coated.
Regards,
Bob

quote:Originally posted by ja17

Hello Bob,

Good progress, you look like a pro! Expect two to three more time putting thing back.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[bpossel]

Hi Phil,

I chose the traditional, out the top method because it seemed easier to me.  A local MB shop replaced Dennis Zanone's engine in his former 113.  They removed the engine by dropping the front suspension and then removed the engine.  This was the method they preffered.
I am not an expert on this and maybe Joe or others can provide advice for you.  Good Luck!
Bob

quote:Originally posted by pauldridge

Bob... these pics are very instructional... invaluable to the forum.  I'll be removing my engine soon... Just wondering, seems like I've read several recommendations to just remove the engine/trans from below.. I haven't really explored it yet, but wondering why you chose the out-the-top method?  I'm sure you have good reason, and can save me from taking the wrong step?

Thanks
Phil

230SL, 59 Jag MK IX, 65 Stingray Roadster, 89 Carrera Cabriolet

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[waltklatt]

Hello Bob,
That's pretty much what I'm looking at under the dash on my 220SL.  
I've taken everything associated to the heating and ventilation system out.
The images are very clear in my head to what it looks like under there.  The heater core on yours, lloks as if it has been removed before and repaired.  The sheet metal that seals the vent box to the dash enclosure for the heater core looks as if was hacked and bent up.  
What happened there?  
Sorry I cant take a picture of mine as I've removed all the metal under there.
Looks to be a bog job with an even bigger reward when it's all done.
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel, new driveshaft ready to be installed.

[bpossel]

Hi Walter,

I agree...  somebody, many years ago... was doing some work under there...  I found part of an old heater valve disk.  I recognized it because I replaced my heater valve a year ago, without core removal.
Bob

quote:Originally posted by waltklatt

Hello Bob,
That's pretty much what I'm looking at under the dash on my 220SL.  
I've taken everything associated to the heating and ventilation system out.
The images are very clear in my head to what it looks like under there.  The heater core on yours, lloks as if it has been removed before and repaired.  The sheet metal that seals the vent box to the dash enclosure for the heater core looks as if was hacked and bent up.  
What happened there?  
Sorry I cant take a picture of mine as I've removed all the metal under there.
Looks to be a bog job with an even bigger reward when it's all done.
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel, new driveshaft ready to be installed.

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[ja17]

Hello,

I've tried engine removal just about every way.

Most of the pros prefere to remove the engine without the suspension. Removal of the engine, trhnsmission and suspension involves additional labor for disconnecting brakes, shocks sub frame mounts, sway bar etc. and as mentioned, dealing with a car that has no front wheels can be a chore.
Removal of the engine and transmission as a unit is easiest. The engine and transmission must come out at about a 45 degree angle so if you have limited overhead clearance you may have difficulties.

On the otherhand, if you are planning on doing suspension or subframe work, removal of the  engine, transmission and the suspension also could be a good choice.

If I am planning on doing an engine tear down, I remove the head while the engine is in the car. It comes off fairly easily if you have no AC and it makes everything much easier to unhook for removing the block and transmission assembly. I install the engine and transmission without the head, finish the hook ups and install the head.

Depending on what work you have planned and what working conditions permit, you will need to choose the best method for yourself.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[glennard]

PPPP  Possel's Perfect Pagoda Paint    Bob, Is it going to dunked and rotated in the paint to get all nooks and crannys?

[bpossel]

Hello Glennard!
Dont think it will ever be perfect!  If I can get close to what Mike S.'s car looks like, then I'll be happy!  I did remove all of the body plugs and will have them spray inside the "boxes" with rust kill.  In the end, I want a very nice weekend driver, not a garage queen.
B.

quote:Originally posted by glennard

PPPP  Possel's Perfect Pagoda Paint    Bob, Is it going to dunked and rotated in the paint to get all nooks and crannys?

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[Joe]

Originally posted by ja17

Hello Bob,

Expect two to three more time putting thing back.
....

Good one, Joe!

[ja17]

Hello Bob,

A scarry amount of work here!  Imagine if you had to pay someone to do all the labor that you are doing! Great job and documentation!



Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[glennard]

If only Detroit could do as well.  

[bpossel]

Hi Joe,

Thanks!  I have logged close to 200 hours[:p], so far, just my time (free...).  Putting all back together again will most likely take longer...  Of course, I am a shade tree mech :oops: .  The experts like Gernold, that have done these many times, may take less time, but still....  lots of hours!

So one can see that 80-100k+ to restore one of these (excluding purchase price) is not too far off[:0].

Bob

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[Mark280SL]

I'm brand new to SL113.org and the forums, this is my first post so hopefully I'm doing this right.

Over the past weekend I bought my first MB a 1970 280 SL a car I've thought about buying for years but never was in a position to do until recently.

My car is in what I'm guessing would be considered good, maybe very good condition, it's ivory with a congac interior both paint and interior are new from the previous owner, shows very well but there are plenty of things I'm hoping to do as I begin my journey down this road. I will probably start with a rebuild of the engine which I have some concerns about .

Bob I'm totally impressed with what you are doing with your car, I'm blown away by all you've done so far and love all the photos, it's so helpful for somebody like me just getting started. Thank You!! on behalf of those of us getting started.

I could probably ask you a 10,000 questions but just one quick one for now. I thought I saw a note in one of your posts that you took the engine out and were shipping it to Metric in CA for rebuild. Would you not consider a good local shop to do the work or is Metric that good and reasonable price wise even with shipping costs?

Thanks for all the great info you are posting it's a real treasure to somebody like me who is just getting started.

Mark 1970 280 SL
Saylorsburg, Pa

[bpossel]

Hi Mark,

Welcome and congrats on your new 113!

When I started with my resto, I had not planned on redoing my engine.  But as nice as the body will be when finished, I couldnt see putting my leaky engine back in, then taking it out again in a few years.  There is a very good shop, here in Memphis, that I considered, but they were close in cost to what Metric is charging for a complete rebuild.  There are several other members on this site that have used Metric and were very happy.  MB engines is all those guys do.  Check out their website!  Call and talk to Mike Ellis.  Family run, great people.

Cost for shipping there and back (TN-CA-TN) is 400.   Metric received my engine yesterday and have started their magic.  I will post more pics this week, so please keep checking back.  Sometimes I will just add pics to the website and not update this post.  Seems like it is getting too long.
If you have any other questions, please ask.  Everyone on this site has had some experience or another with every aspect of these great machines.

Good Luck and again, welcome!
Bob

quote:Originally posted by Mark280SL

I'm brand new to SL113.org and the forums, this is my first post so hopefully I'm doing this right.

Over the past weekend I bought my first MB a 1970 280 SL a car I've thought about buying for years but never was in a position to do until recently.

My car is in what I'm guessing would be considered good, maybe very good condition, it's ivory with a congac interior both paint and interior are new from the previous owner, shows very well but there are plenty of things I'm hoping to do as I begin my journey down this road. I will probably start with a rebuild of the engine which I have some concerns about .

Bob I'm totally impressed with what you are doing with your car, I'm blown away by all you've done so far and love all the photos, it's so helpful for somebody like me just getting started. Thank You!! on behalf of those of us getting started.

I could probably ask you a 10,000 questions but just one quick one for now. I thought I saw a note in one of your posts that you took the engine out and were shipping it to Metric in CA for rebuild. Would you not consider a good local shop to do the work or is Metric that good and reasonable price wise even with shipping costs?

Thanks for all the great info you are posting it's a real treasure to somebody like me who is just getting started.

Mark 1970 280 SL
Saylorsburg, Pa

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[Mike]

Hi Mark.  I'd like to second Bob's welcome.  I went through the same drill that Bob did a couple of years ago but I did not take it to quite the level that Bob is taking it.  I got pretty close though.  I too selected Metric and am pleased that  I did.  I am in central PA (about 2 hours from you) so feel free to contact me directly if I can assist you in your efforts.


Mike

[Mark280SL]

Thanks Bob and Mike,

I'm trying to decide about the engine now. I worked on cars a lot 30 years ago in my early 20's and pulled and rebuilt an engine or two from scratch. I'm 52 now and I gave up fixing cars long ago. I'm a corporate type these days and rusty with car stuff but I know it would come back to me so I'm reasonably sure I could take on pulling the engine and putting it back in when it came back from rebuild. I guess I just need to crunch the numbers to see where I should best spend cash as opposed to my own efforts.

Thanks guys I'm sure I will be taking you up on your offer for info and I'll be looking forward to seeing more pics on Bob's website as you progress, it was a real kick to see a car like mine going through the process, really great stuff.

Thank you both

Mark

[rwmastel]

Mark,

Welcome to the Group!  Here's a thread you might want to read:
http://index.php?topic=8002

Rodd
Pagoda Technical Manual
please contibute: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
1966 230SL
2006 C230 Sport Sedan

[glennard]

Mark280SL, You say you want to pull the engine.  Why? Oil leaks? Low compression? Poor starting?  Needs detailing?  Before pulling the engine, find a very good reason-after valve adjustment, compression check, tuneup, etc. etc.------

[J. Huber]

Well, first off -- hey Mark, welcome. Second, I have a number of things I'd like to offer. But I'd rather this thread get its own home -- since The Possel Pagoda Chronicles (PPC) is such a unique and important thread for all of us...

James
63 230SL

[hauser]

Bob, how was your engine performing prior to removal?  Were there any telltale signs that something was wrong?

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[bpossel]

The only sign was that it wanted to creep towards the red when in stopped traffic in the Memphis heat of summer.  I was running the engine with 70 percent dis water w/Water Wetter.  This kept the temp down.  I knew my car sat for a number of years, so sort of not a surprise.

Joe tuned the IP pump this summer and commented how smooth my engine ran.  I guess it shows how much these engines can stand and keep running, even if things are not perfect on the inside.  I will just be happy to know that the internals are clean and clear when I get it back and that it will be like new again.  No worries except to keep the bugs off and change the fluids...

Bob

quote:Originally posted by hauser

Bob, how was your engine performing prior to removal?  Were there any telltale signs that something was wrong?

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[glennard]

quote:Originally posted by J. Huber

Well, first off -- hey Mark, welcome. Second, I have a number of things I'd like to offer. But I'd rather this thread get its own home -- since The Possel Pagoda Chronicles (PPC) is such a unique and important thread for all of us...

James
63 230SL

I'll move Mark's engine pull to 'Mark's engine pull' under General Discussion.

[mdsalemi]

EVERYBODY:  Read Bob's latest post-contribution about the engine.  This is precisely why we pay the experts for their knowledge.  If you want somebody who does brakes at 10AM, exhaust at 2PM working on an engine rebuild on a wooden bench in the back of his shop, fine.  He might have simply cleaned up the water damage without a second thought.  If you want it done right, go to the experts.

While the extent of damage to my cylinder head was limited to a minor crack welded up at no additional charge, one can see that Bob wasn't so lucky--but VERY lucky he decided to send the engine to Mike Elias at Metric who uncovered the issues.

Bob, you now have "religion" as they say!

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

[thelews]

quote:Originally posted by mdsalemi

EVERYBODY:  Read Bob's latest post-contribution about the engine.  This is precisely why we pay the experts for their knowledge.  If you want somebody who does brakes at 10AM, exhaust at 2PM working on an engine rebuild on a wooden bench in the back of his shop, fine.  He might have simply cleaned up the water damage without a second thought.  If you want it done right, go to the experts.

I might suggest also www.blackforestllc.com as engine "experts."  They just did a beautiful job rebuilding my original 921 engine and have extensive knowledge of the 113.  Very anal shop.  No affiliation, just a good experience.  This is the shop where Jim Villers and I are hoping to organize a tech gathering in July as we just did with the 190 SL Group.





John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual

[mdsalemi]

quote:I might suggest also www.blackforestllc.com as engine "experts."  They just did a beautiful job rebuilding my original 921 engine and have extensive knowledge of the 113.  Very anal shop.  No affiliation, just a good experience.  This is the shop where Jim Villers and I are hoping to organize a tech gathering in July as we just did with the 190 SL Group.

John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual

Great information, John.  I swear by Metric because that's my experience; similarly, there's Noel's in Florida with arguably as good a reputation, and now Black Forest.  This is all great information for our group here.  What is best for everyone is a set of experts to choose from.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America